Is Church Truly Biblical/Christian?

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I have children and I at times have felt the pull of church, so from time to time I do attend (I never contribute to the offering though as my conscience will not allow me to, instead I try to make note of those on the prayer lists and I send them something anonymously if I can).

For me, it seems like church or the church mindset needs to be broken down so that believers can have the types of relationships both with the Lord and one another that scripture intended. Church as it is set up today in many ways seems to stand as quite the opposite of what was described in scripture.
That's not to say that believers should not actively seek out one another and seek to spend quality time together encouraging one another and really getting to know each other as well as the concerns, problems, strengths, and weaknesses so that believers can truly be a family and benefit each other in a real way. This text really calls out to me: Hebrews 10:23-25 and I have found that the modern church with pulpit preacher and all does a poor job in this area.

23 So, let’s hang onto the confession of our hope and not give up, because the One who gave us the promise is faithful. 24 And let’s keep reminding ourselves to help each other to grow in love and good deeds.
25 And don’t stop meeting together (as some have made it their custom), but [continue to] encourage each other… and [do this] even more so as you see the Day getting closer.

We don't need organized churchianity to accomplish this.

 

[ezra]

the church is the body of CHRIST with many members... first question are you saved. 2. are you going seeking something from the service. 3. or are just a spectator . you get what you put into it. folded arms ho hum lets get this over you get nothing. go expecting to hear a good message a uplifting song with that type out look you get a return.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I think that the Bible needs to be placed on public trial for the purpose of exposing once and for all what message(s) it is actually trying to communicate. Doing this will help us to eliminate the mind control religions of the christian persuasion have over people and it will empower the people to see the actual message for themselves rather than through the eyes of churches.

I believe people (whether christian or not) would benefit from really knowing the Bible. The knowlege of it can help people to free themselves and our culture from many of the negatives corporate religion brings with it. As taught in scripture, faith is a personal thing, so to have people learn for themselves and decide whether to take it or leave it empowers the individual rather than the instituation of hierarchial religion which throuout history has exercised its power of the freedoms of individuals.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

are you going seeking something from the service?

or are just a spectator?

Good questions. However, my suggestion is that the idea of going to a service is a flawed one. What if instead the mindset was one that thought in terms of people coming together to encourage, love, fellowship with, and serve one another? The idea then would be that each person brings themselves to the gathering with the expectation and intent of both serving and being fed by the service of others.

The way that church services are arranged today, the majority of folks in the assembly have little choice but to be spectators. That ought not be the way things are arranged.

 

[ezra]

start your own church that should fix it

 

[reba]

Can you imagine this forum with out some organization?

 

[ejected]

Reba, are you actually saying that the first century church M.O. that Paul set in order was unorganized?
Every one quotes Hebrews 10...the first part 'forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some Is'......then they fail to quote the next part...'exhorting one another'.
So what's my point? I'll give you a little time to think about this. ....'Exhorting one another'. Look at it closely....one more time....'Exhorting one another.' Not one man exhorting the congregation.....'Exhorting one another'. Think 1Cor.12 and 14.
Has anyone read those chapters yet? The believers assembled together to edify one another through the ministry functions and gifts. Jesus gave gifts unto men/women to the edifying of the body. He did not deposit all the spiritual gifts into one man called pastor, so the leg could say to the foot ' we have no need of thee'.
They gathered together not forsaking the assembling of themselves together as some have in order to listen to a paid professional 'do it all'.....NOT!
They came together 'exhorting one another'. They waited on God. His Spirit would then, by the anointing, move upon different members to bring forth their function, a psalm, another a song, another a prophesy, another an exhortation, another a teaching, another tongues, another an interpretation of tongues, by 2 or 3 at a time, everything done decently and in order.
More than organized, Spirit directed which is as organized as you can get. Not an organization but an organism, alive by God's very presence. Not man organized and controlled but God organized and controlled. Not man as the head but Jesus as the Head.
Not everyone submitted unto one man but everyone submitted unto each other...in The Lord. Unless any of you have experienced a true move of God a lot of this will sound strange to you.
That's ok. What's not ok is if you dismiss it all and go on with business as usual. I hope you take the Berean attitude and 'search the scriptures to see if these things are so'. Go to the Greek on the obey and submit verses to get the real meaning.
Again, just by evidence of this one verse, Heb.10: 'exhorting one another', most if not all 'churches' are really not biblical 'churches'. They don't have a N.T. leg to stand on. They are in stark violation of God's commands. Their doctrinal buckets can't hold a drop of water. Devouring widow's houses and taking away the right of the poor. Twisting the scriptures to their own destruction as well as messing everyone else over at the same time.
Robbing the sheep not only of their money but of their individual ministry functions.
Preaching Godliness for gain and profit by the use of extortion and bald face lies, 'and my people love it so'.
It's our own fault it is what it is. You say your church and your pastor are not in it for the money. Take away the gold and watch them flee. Make them get a job according to Acts 20 and you'll have a fight on your hands. These guys don't want to stand behind a machine in a sweat shop for 40 to 60 hours a week like the dumb sheep have to....are you kidding...God forbid!!!
So according to Hebrews 10 'exhorting one another' cancels out about every church in the country, if not the world, as frauds!

 

[Obadiah]

How Ironic, I read almost this whole thread before I realized this is a non-Christian trying to convince Christians they shouldn't go to church because church is bad! Yep, how Ironic!

 

[ejected]

Hey Obadiah, who you calling non christian..and I ain't mad.smile.

 

[Obadiah]

The OP, Truth over Tradition. I'm not the one calling him that, he says it himself in his profile.

 

[jasoncran]

the church whether its at home and or a large building will not be perfect. these home church types seem to forget that. whom will check them when they go off the tangent? oh yeah well if I don't like that I will just go make my own. hmm that sounds well like the problems they complain about.

 

[WIP]

Reba, are you actually saying that the first century church M.O. that Paul set in order was unorganized?
Every one quotes Hebrews 10...the first part 'forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some Is'......then they fail to quote the next part...'exhorting one another'.
So what's my point? I'll give you a little time to think about this. ....'Exhorting one another'. Look at it closely....one more time....'Exhorting one another.' Not one man exhorting the congregation.....'Exhorting one another'. Think 1Cor.12 and 14.
Has anyone read those chapters yet? The believers assembled together to edify one another through the ministry functions and gifts. Jesus gave gifts unto men/women to the edifying of the body. He did not deposit all the spiritual gifts into one man called pastor, so the leg could say to the foot ' we have no need of thee'.
They gathered together not forsaking the assembling of themselves together as some have in order to listen to a paid professional 'do it all'.....NOT!
They came together 'exhorting one another'. They waited on God. His Spirit would then, by the anointing, move upon different members to bring forth their function, a psalm, another a song, another a prophesy, another an exhortation, another a teaching, another tongues, another an interpretation of tongues, by 2 or 3 at a time, everything done decently and in order.
More than organized, Spirit directed which is as organized as you can get. Not an organization but an organism, alive by God's very presence. Not man organized and controlled but God organized and controlled. Not man as the head but Jesus as the Head.
Not everyone submitted unto one man but everyone submitted unto each other...in The Lord. Unless any of you have experienced a true move of God a lot of this will sound strange to you.
That's ok. What's not ok is if you dismiss it all and go on with business as usual. I hope you take the Berean attitude and 'search the scriptures to see if these things are so'. Go to the Greek on the obey and submit verses to get the real meaning.
Again, just by evidence of this one verse, Heb.10: 'exhorting one another', most if not all 'churches' are really not biblical 'churches'. They don't have a N.T. leg to stand on. They are in stark violation of God's commands. Their doctrinal buckets can't hold a drop of water. Devouring widow's houses and taking away the right of the poor. Twisting the scriptures to their own destruction as well as messing everyone else over at the same time.
Robbing the sheep not only of their money but of their individual ministry functions.
Preaching Godliness for gain and profit by the use of extortion and bald face lies, 'and my people love it so'.
It's our own fault it is what it is. You say your church and your pastor are not in it for the money. Take away the gold and watch them flee. Make them get a job according to Acts 20 and you'll have a fight on your hands. These guys don't want to stand behind a machine in a sweat shop for 40 to 60 hours a week like the dumb sheep have to....are you kidding...God forbid!!!
So according to Hebrews 10 'exhorting one another' cancels out about every church in the country, if not the world, as frauds!

I would be interested in knowing where you gather so if I am ever in the area I can attend to experience the perfect worship service. I mean that perhaps with a little sarcasm but also in truth. You have been posting in a couple threads about how the modern church service is corrupt and out of sync and yet I have not heard you describe your own service in great simple detail that can help us or me understand how the service I have been enjoying is so vile and repulsive. I don't want to be a blind goat following a wolf as you eluded to in another thread. Help me out here.

 

[reba]

Reba, are you actually saying that the first century church M.O. that Paul set in order was unorganized?
Every one quotes Hebrews 10...the first part 'forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some Is'......then they fail to quote the next part...'exhorting one another'.
So what's my point? I'll give you a little time to think about this. ....'Exhorting one another'. Look at it closely....one more time....'Exhorting one another.' Not one man exhorting the congregation.....'Exhorting one another'. Think 1Cor.12 and 14.
Has anyone read those chapters yet? The believers assembled together to edify one another through the ministry functions and gifts. Jesus gave gifts unto men/women to the edifying of the body. He did not deposit all the spiritual gifts into one man called pastor, so the leg could say to the foot ' we have no need of thee'.
They gathered together not forsaking the assembling of themselves together as some have in order to listen to a paid professional 'do it all'.....NOT!
They came together 'exhorting one another'. They waited on God. His Spirit would then, by the anointing, move upon different members to bring forth their function, a psalm, another a song, another a prophesy, another an exhortation, another a teaching, another tongues, another an interpretation of tongues, by 2 or 3 at a time, everything done decently and in order.
More than organized, Spirit directed which is as organized as you can get. Not an organization but an organism, alive by God's very presence. Not man organized and controlled but God organized and controlled. Not man as the head but Jesus as the Head.
Not everyone submitted unto one man but everyone submitted unto each other...in The Lord. Unless any of you have experienced a true move of God a lot of this will sound strange to you.
That's ok. What's not ok is if you dismiss it all and go on with business as usual. I hope you take the Berean attitude and 'search the scriptures to see if these things are so'. Go to the Greek on the obey and submit verses to get the real meaning.
Again, just by evidence of this one verse, Heb.10: 'exhorting one another', most if not all 'churches' are really not biblical 'churches'. They don't have a N.T. leg to stand on. They are in stark violation of God's commands. Their doctrinal buckets can't hold a drop of water. Devouring widow's houses and taking away the right of the poor. Twisting the scriptures to their own destruction as well as messing everyone else over at the same time.
Robbing the sheep not only of their money but of their individual ministry functions.
Preaching Godliness for gain and profit by the use of extortion and bald face lies, 'and my people love it so'.
It's our own fault it is what it is. You say your church and your pastor are not in it for the money. Take away the gold and watch them flee. Make them get a job according to Acts 20 and you'll have a fight on your hands. These guys don't want to stand behind a machine in a sweat shop for 40 to 60 hours a week like the dumb sheep have to....are you kidding...God forbid!!!
So according to Hebrews 10 'exhorting one another' cancels out about every church in the country, if not the world, as frauds!

WOW all of this and all I said was this

Can you imagine this forum with out some organization?

 

[ejected]

Hello Wip..God bless you my friend and brother in The Lord. Please read 1Cor.12 and 14. Let me know when you have read it then I'll tell you how we fellowship. Wolves are in it for gain and prestige. i don't want anyone's money. i do not charge for the gospel. i spent 35k to make a movie God told us to make. we give copies away for free. God has blessed us for not trying to profit off the sheep. Wolves would do the opposite..

 

[ejected]

Reba, I love you to death but you can't have it both ways. One time I wrote a very short piece and was told by all that I need to explain myself in more lengthy detail. Now I'm told that my answers are to long. Somebody please help me. Jesus said The piper pipes his tune and no one dances. A mourner mourns and no one else mourns. No matter how Jesus answered the religious leaders they would castigate Him. Im not saying you are jumping on me with both feet, but I hope you get my frustration.(smile).

 

[reba]

Reba, I love you to death but you can't have it both ways. One time I wrote a
very short piece and was told by all that I need to explain myself in more
lengthy detail.

Sure have heard that before

Now I'm told that my answers are to long.

I never said your post was too long...

Somebody please help me. Jesus said The piper pipes his tune and no one dances.
A mourner mourns and no one else mourns.

No matter how Jesus answered the religious leaders they would castigate Him

. You sir are not the Christ nor is any here.

Im not saying you are jumping on me with both feet, but I hope you get my
frustration.(smile)

.
Posting tends to bring out our frustrations

 

[ezra]

Can you imagine this forum with out some organization?

that is how it has to be in church structure with leaders .in a church service there has to be order by a leader can you imagine 10 different people trying to preach on sunday morning.. the pastor leads the flock to green pastures so they can feed. he goes after the 1 out of the hundred if they go astray. Ephesians 4:11-16
King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. only one leader of each part in church.. can you imagine 10 treasures? 10 song leaders trying to lead 10 different songs at one time? God is not the author of confusion

 

[JLB]

We don't need organized churchianity to accomplish this.

Amen.

However, we do need Church Community, to edify and encourage one another.

We also need the five fold ministry to grow in Maturity.


JLB

 

[ejected]

Reba, I never said I was the Christ. Wow. However Do you not know that anyone who dares surrender all will be cast out as well? Basic Christianity.

 

[ejected]

Ezra, show me in 1Cor. 12 and 14 one man preaching a sermon while all sit prim and proper with their mouths shut.thanks