Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?

[Ryan]

[MENTION=29288]Eventide[/MENTION] and that is the part of Dispensational thinking. The church gets all the blessings and gets to be miraculously raptured before tribulation, and the nation of Israel has to war off the anti-christ and the nations, then they will be saved.

From God's perspective, if you believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you are Israel. Even if you are of the lineage of Abraham, if you don't have Jesus as your saviour, you are cut off. That is what Romans 11 is about. Once you are grafted into the Olive Tree, you are Israel whether born naturally of Abraham, or not. How do we know who the Olive Tree is?

Jeremiah 11:16 The Lord called your name, “A green olive tree, beautiful in fruit and form”; With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are worthless.

I actually don't know what you are arguing to tell you the truth? It is a mystery right now.

 

[Eventide]

If I have told you EARTHLY things and ye believe not...

From God's perspective, if you believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you are Israel.

That's odd... I'm not an Israelite.. I'm a Christian.. because I'm in CHRIST, not in Israel.

Even if you are of the lineage of Abraham, if you don't have Jesus as your saviour, you are cut off. That is what Romans 11 is about. Once you are grafted into the Olive Tree, you are Israel whether born naturally of Abraham, or not. How do we know who the Olive Tree is?

This is odd also... The Apostle to the GENTILES teaches us plainly that ISRAEL is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in... and yet you're saying that we are ISRAEL...

The Apostle to the GENTILES tells us that they (ISRAEL) are our enemies as concerning the gospel... and yet you say that we are ISRAEL...

I actually don't know what you are arguing to tell you the truth? It is a mystery right now.

It's not complicated... you claim that the church of God is ISRAEL.

It's not...

Israel is an EARTHLY entity with earthly ordinances...

The church of God is a HEAVENLY entity with our citizenship bing in heaven.

 

[Ryan]

@ Eventide Spiritual Israel, not physical Israel. You think Israel the state it is in right now are His choosen ones??? Not once can you show anywhere in the bible where it says the Jews are God's choosen people. What it says time and time again is Israel is his choosen people: 1 Chronicles 16:13; Psalm 135:4; Isaiah 41:8; Isaiah 44:1; Acts 13:17; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 2:11-13

Israel, God's choosen ones, is not by blood lineage, but only those covered by the blood of the Passover Lamb. Israel is the church, the ekklesia, qahal, assembly, etc. Why o why then are we going in through these gates then?

Revelation 21:12
It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.

Who is God's firstborn?

Exodus 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is My son, My firstborn.

I didn't realize God had more then 2 firstborn sons. Another strike against dispy teachings. Church and Israel are one in the same.

 

[Eventide]

@ Eventide Spiritual Israel, not physical Israel.

Now you're just making stuff up, because there is no such thing as Spiritual Israel in the scriptures.

You think Israel the state it is in right now are His choosen ones???

No, how many times should I tell you that ISRAEL is blinded in part and CUT OFF from Christ until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

Not once can you show anywhere in the bible where it says the Jews are God's choosen people. What it says time and time again is Israel is his choosen people: 1 Chronicles 16:13; Psalm 135:4; Isaiah 41:8; Isaiah 44:1; Acts 13:17; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 2:11-13

The Apostle to the GENTILES teaches us that even though they are our enemies as concerning the gospel, that they are beloved concerning God's ELECTION...

This includes the countless OT patriarchs who have been justified by faith long before Christ came.

Riddle me this Ryan...

If there is neither JEW or GENTILE in CHRIST... then why are you telling me that I'm an Israelite ?

I'm not of JACOB... or his twelve sons... that's Israel... Jacob... the one who wrestled with the man all night... and in the morning of that DAY... the sun rose upon him...

If you'd like to believe and teach others that you're Israel... then go right ahead Ryan... people do it all the time regardless of the fact that there isn't a shred of biblical evidence to support it.

 

[jasoncran]

sheesh, even the MODERN blind JEWS call isreal eternally existent in HEAVEN and on the earth and are those that live.

the physically state of isreal shall ONLY be for a short time when the moschiac comes to restore it. in fact its 1000 years then after that all of creation is destroyed and the all the Hebrews are in gan eden. that is what The RAMBAN teaches.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I happen to think there is adequate evidence for it, but that's my opinion. God bless.

 

[reba]

Good and Godly discussion is great .. These forums are fairly open to thoughts as long as they stay with in the bounds of Christianity.... I can see the different sides of this 'discussion' being Scriptural .... Let's not allow the personal jabs to distract us from a Godly discussion. moderator

 

[Ryan]

View attachment 3424

Just a test to see if it has come up as I cannot get it to zoom in.

This is a so called geologic column that some evolutionists believe that in certain ages and times, only certain species were present and as you can see there was a progression upwards of the species as the species became more and more complex as found in the rocks that geologists say only happened during that time frame.

But it has been found that what they presented as one species being only present in that time, they also have found fossils in another area of time where it was supposed to of "evolved". So what you have are amoebas being found at the top, and apes being found at the bottom. So the page should look more like arrows going everywhich way up and down. With humans being found in the so called Devonian age, and reptiles being found in the so called Pleistocene age.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Not sure if the last post is directed at me or not; if it's not, then I have no clue what it's significance is supposed to be in this thread.
If it was directed at me, then let me be clear: I am not and never have been a believer in the theory of evolution. (That said, neither do I feel theistic evolution to be dangerous, as some dictate. Lacking in evidence? Well yeah.) I was not speaking of this when I said I felt there was evidence.
But if believing that parts of OT law are outdated makes me a "Darwinist" in your mind, so be it.


Please respect that I do not wish to renter the dispensationalism vs OT law debate. I've presented my side before, and I do not think it would be profitable for me to explain again just for the sake of argument. If you did not accept my argument then, you probably won't accept it now. Nor do you need to.

 

[Ryan]

View attachment 3425

Just look at this chart, and the previous chart and see if there are any differences, or similarities.

This is not my teaching, but it hit me smack dab in the face I had to share it and see whether it does anyone else. You can find the tie in to the two charts here in part 6 of a 8 part series broadcasted originally on God's Learning Channel.

http://www.yah-tube.com/videos/scott/26_world_views_in_collision_p6/index.html

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=89910]questdriven[/MENTION] No it was not directed at you. Just did not put up the corresponding chart up in a timely manner. Don't debate if you want to, that is your choice and decision and that is respected. Same thing when I tell people over and over again the Sabbath and the Feast Days are still for all believers today. It does get tiresome, but continue to plug on despite rejection, hostility and opposition. Guess it's in our nature isn't it?

 

[evenifigoalone]

My apologies, then.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Am I allowed to point out that the analogy in the first post about lighting hitting a mud puddle has nothing to do with anything Darwin wrote and also has nothing to do with Modern evolutionary theory? Just thought I'd point this out considering that this topic seems to want to discuss evolution and some idea about Judaism. I just thought maybe it would be a good idea to maybe compare the actual theory of evolution and not a poor analogy that has nothing to do with the real theory.

I'm asking this because the analogy sounds similar to the atheist joke about Christians worshiping an astrological zombie. Its not a real representation of what Christianity is.

 

[reba]

MBS this is the theology thread not the science thread

 

[Milk-Drops]

MBS this is the theology thread not the science thread

ok, just adding my 2 cents.




reba says me too

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=89910]questdriven[/MENTION] No it was not directed at you. Just did not put up the corresponding chart up in a timely manner. Don't debate if you want to, that is your choice and decision and that is respected. Same thing when I tell people over and over again the Sabbath and the Feast Days are still for all believers today. It does get tiresome, but continue to plug on despite rejection, hostility and opposition. Guess it's in our nature isn't it?

so when and if jerursalem has a temple. I NEED NOT go to jesus for my sins anymore I can go the local Chassidic temple that will have a levite there to assist me atone and worship. and when I need to go to the feasts mandated at the temple I can?

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION]. I am kindly disregarding your comments to the thread to keep it focused on topic. Do you, or do you not see the parallels?

 

[jasoncran]

I understand that, but ONE can NEVER do them again therefore they there a interesting study and a type of worship but no longer have any original meaning as they once did thus shadow. unless you really think that yom kippur can be done with a simple prayer. remember all you are doing is picking what the lord allows after the atoning blood.you nor I can do the torah as it was done in the past prior Christ.,

I don't mind doing the "shadows" myself but I understand they are from henceforth shadows. besides, the JEWS do intend to build a temple.if they ever DO you like any other messianic jew will be further separated from a unsaved jew and more like what Christ has planned. the bridge has been burned for the mosaic law. one cant GO back to that. that is what the lords is trying to say.One is free to do the "shadows as much as they like or not. but each of the feasts had a function for the priests. that too is no longer.

we are all priests now. one cant be a levite and function as that anymore.

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] The question is: Do you or do you not see the parallels between evolution and dispensationalism? And if you do, how could that make sense when throughout the bible, God uses parables relating nature to spiritual matters that are occuring, do you see evolution in nature as it relates to dispy thinking? Because if we see evolution in nature, that would mean dispensationalism must be true. Maybe a simple yes or no answer will suffice.

 

[jasoncran]

no, what I see is that the church before dispy came in was already doing easter not Passover. or that Christmas not channukah. what I believe is that there is tendency of dispy to have near anti-semetic nature to it. I mean people unknowingly happy that isreal shall suffer much loss because to them that means the lord is near. it should be somber mood as judgment is coming. remember that it is possible that the Zionist movement went to schofield to get him use his influence to get isreal formed. remember that in doing so many a jews did die . I understand the desire of the return and formation of isreal but it did cost lives and it shouldn't be supported because of a biblical prophecy that may or may not be there. if god wanted isreal to return it would be well known the world that he did do that. modern isreal isn't what he has in mind then or now.