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Aussie said:
for_his_glory,

I don't expect to be bored in the City where "Tears will never stain the streets of that city."

Oz
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We will be :sohappycan hardly wait for that day.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 
2ndRateMind said:
God gave us minds and brains and discriminatory capacity. One can only presume He intended for us to use them. Besides, we only have the Bible's word that the Bible is the word of God. In other words the Bible is the word of God because the Bible says it is, and the Bible says it is because it is the word of God. This is a viciously circular argument, which is not to say it is necessarily false, only that it proves nothing.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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2RM,

You have given us your own circular reasoning: God gave us minds to use for reasoning and they can come up with conclusions that are contrary to Scripture. Dare I say that this is pious popularity promoting itself.

Oz
 
2ndRateMind said:
Hmmm. I am not discrediting the Bible. There is plenty of good stuff in it, as well as bad. I just think we should, to do it justice, expect to find both and expect to have to decide which is which. In other words, I advocate neither credulity nor scepticism, just a suitably critical approach.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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How do you discern between what is good and what is bad in the Bible? What is your reasuring rod?

Oz
 
wondering said:
If we move away from God as our standard, WHO will set the standard?
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I really shouldn't worry to much about that. God's Law, as I have previously pointed out, is objectively ethical. He will always set the standard, whether we believe in Him or not. Meanwhile, I still contend that we do not know what God's Law is, or objective ethics are. But we do have the capacity to learn from our mistakes, as individuals and as societies, and in academia, in moral philosophy and theology. And thus we do make progress, and will continue to do so so long as we rid ourselves of the arrogant assumption that we already know what objective ethics are, and that, surprise, surprise, they coincide with what we think is ethical.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
Aussie said:
2RM,

You have given us your own circular reasoning: God gave us minds to use for reasoning and they can come up with conclusions that are contrary to Scripture. Dare I say that this is pious popularity promoting itself.

Oz
Click to expand...
You can say whatever you want. Just don't expect me to respect what you say unless you can provide a rational argument, rather than an insult, to justify it.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
2ndRateMind said:
I really shouldn't worry to much about that. God's Law, as I have previously pointed out, is objectively ethical. He will always set the standard, whether we believe in Him or not. Meanwhile, I still contend that we do not know what God's Law is, or objective ethics are. But we do have the capacity to learn from our mistakes, as individuals and as societies, and in academia, in moral philosophy and theology. And thus we do make progress, and will continue to do so so long as we rid ourselves of the arrogant assumption that we already know what objective ethics are, and that, surprise, surprise, they coincide with what we think is ethical.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Click to expand...
These are God's laws in how we are to conduct ourselves in our behavior here on earth that we submit our self to Him and His will for us.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.​
 
2ndRateMind said:
They all seem appropriate explanations of aspects of the word 'myth' to me. And I guess I mean an agglomeration (if that's a word!) of all of them.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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2RM,

Why don't you check both the Oxford English Dictionary and the Merriam Webster Dictionary to see if agglomeration is a word? There's too much guessing on this forum about the meaning of words.

Oz
 
Thanks for that, for_his_glory. I agree with most it, except as follows:
for_his_glory said:
... as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.
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Except I don't believe we know what God's Will is, other than in the most general terms, which is that we should live ethical lives. If you doubt this, check out the moral conundrum I gave wondering on the previous page, and then tell me that whatever is decided, the answer won't be contentious.
for_his_glory said:
We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.​
Click to expand...
I don't blame Satan when I do something bad or wrong, and I don't credit God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit when I do something good or right. All they do is tempt us in the wrong/right direction. But, at the end of the day, the decisions I take are mine and mine alone, and I expect to answer for them on Judgment Day, both the bad, and the good.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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OzSpen said:
2RM,

Why do you attribute the creation account to the Bronze Age Jews?

Oz
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I don't, necessarily. The origins of the myths are lost way back in mists of time. But we do know that by the time Genesis was written, pretty soon after writing was invented (3400 BC) it had been accepted by bronze age (3300-1200 BC) Jews as a true account of how the world, and humans, began.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
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OzSpen said:
2RM,

Why don't you check both the Oxford English Dictionary and the Merriam Webster Dictionary to see if agglomeration is a word? There's too much guessing on this forum about the meaning of words.

Oz
Click to expand...
Seems that it is a word: a mass or collection of things; an assemblage.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
2ndRateMind said:
I really shouldn't worry to much about that. God's Law, as I have previously pointed out, is objectively ethical. He will always set the standard, whether we believe in Him or not. Meanwhile, I still contend that we do not know what God's Law is, or objective ethics are. But we do have the capacity to learn from our mistakes, as individuals and as societies, and in academia, in moral philosophy and theology. And thus we do make progress, and will continue to do so so long as we rid ourselves of the arrogant assumption that we already know what objective ethics are, and that, surprise, surprise, they coincide with what we think is ethical.

Best wishes, 2RM.
Click to expand...
OK, so we'll have to disagree on whether or not we know God's objective laws.
The 10 commandments cover a lot of ground...

I do disagree about your statement that we learn from our mistakes.
Every generation seems to have to learn everything all over again.
Seems to me the only thing we learn is that we do not learn.
We have the same problems today that we had 2,000 years ago and t his is due to man's nature being steady and unable to change. Apparently, you have more hope than I do.

We make technological progress...have we made progress in our nature? I don't think so.

Are you accusing me of being arrogant because I think we have objective rules?
Isn't it more arrogant to believe MAN could make his own laws and that they could be respected by everyone?
Islam seems to be able to keep everyone and everything in the best order according to ITS moral system.
Is it just?
 
wondering said:
Islam seems to be able to keep everyone and everything in the best order according to ITS moral system.
Is it just?
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Iranian women certainly don't seem to think so, and I'm inclined to agree with them. There's that stuff about power corrupting, and absolute power corrupting absolutely. But if you take a historical view, you will find that Christianity is far from free of this tendency, itself.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
wondering said:
Are you accusing me of being arrogant because I think we have objective rules?
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Ha Ha! I wouldn't dare! But no, by we, I meant Christianity as a whole. Don't you think it somewhat arrogant to think we know as much as God does on ethics, when we so clearly don't in so many other areas?

Best wishes, 2RM.
 
2ndRateMind said:
Iranian women certainly don't seem to think so, and I'm inclined to agree with them. There's that stuff about power corrupting, and absolute power corrupting absolutely. But if you take a historical view, you will find that Christianity is far from free of this tendency, itself.

Best wishes, 2RM.
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Exactly,
Iranian women wouldn't agree.
And someone who stole something wouldn't agree.
My point being that no matter who is at the command, someone will be very unhappy because they will not agree since the decision is made by another human.

Christianity has taken the same road at times,
always due to human nature - which is not to be trusted.
 
2ndRateMind said:
Ha Ha! I wouldn't dare! But no, by we, I meant Christianity as a whole. Don't you think it somewhat arrogant to think we know as much as God does on ethics, when we so clearly don't in so many other areas?

Best wishes, 2RM.
Click to expand...
I don't believe it's arrogant to repeat amongst ourselves and try to learn what God HAS revealed to us.
Very doubtful we know as much about ethics as God does. Don't know any Christian that believes he/we do.
There are Christian ethics professors that spend their time deciding if something is ethical or not based on God's revelation to us.

This would uphold your idea that we DO NOT know everything about God's moral ethics.
However, they do always seem to come to a conclusion.

I can't think of any topic that hasn't been decided on.

Can you???
 
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