Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
JW Book: “What Can the Bible Teach Us?”
- Thread starter TrevorL
- Start date
Or, is it that you have never been caught studying other material outside of what the Watch Tower dictates to you to use.
The Name of G-d - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)
Learn about several of the more important names of G-d in Jewish tradition, and learn the rules regarding writing and pronouncing these names. Learn why we write 'G-d' that way.
www.jewfaq.org
Greetings again JLB,
Isaiah 61:1–3 (KJV): 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD (YHWH) is upon me; because the LORD (YHWH) hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD (YHWH), and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Jesus quoted the first part of this in the Synagogue of Nazareth:
Luke 4:18–21 (KJV): 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
What is not a good idea is the perpetuation of an error by using the wrong vowels as you did in your earlier post and the JWs have preserved in the name of their organisation and their almost exclusive use of this error in their talks and conversations.
Kind regards
Trevor
Like any Hebrew word in the days of Christ, which were written only with consonants, the pronunciation of YHWH would be in use and understood. When Jesus quoted from Isaiah he would not have spelled out the consonants Y-H-W-H, but pronounced the Name of God.
Isaiah 61:1–3 (KJV): 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD (YHWH) is upon me; because the LORD (YHWH) hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD (YHWH), and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Jesus quoted the first part of this in the Synagogue of Nazareth:
Luke 4:18–21 (KJV): 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
What is not a good idea is the perpetuation of an error by using the wrong vowels as you did in your earlier post and the JWs have preserved in the name of their organisation and their almost exclusive use of this error in their talks and conversations.
Kind regards
Trevor
You go ahead and believe this lie that you're telling the world. The watchtower society are not a group of dictators, dictating which translation of the Bible they must use or dictating what they can and can not read.
Greetings again BB1956,
I am waiting for the availability of the first of three volumes on Isaiah, the first becoming available this month covering Isaiah chapters 1-23. This writer is from a city in Australia. Isaiah has been one of my favourite studies and interests for many years since I attended a home Bible Class on Isaiah in my early 20s, 60 years ago. I remember my first comment in the Class when we were considering Isaiah 6. I have listened to one of the author's study series of five talks on the early chapters of Isaiah, and some of the detail I differ on. I would like to see how he tries to establish his perspective on one or two such items, but overall I am sure that I will gain significantly by his exposition. Another senior speaker gave 90 out of the 100 Bible Classes on Isaiah some years ago, and from memory he gave some different perspectives on some of the same detail, and he is from the same city in Australia. Another speaker many years ago also considered the same detail, and I mainly agree with his perspective, a perspective that he establishes from a thorough analysis and excellent insight. Possibly our two different speakers did not have access to this earlier material.
If I was to visit the local Kingdom Hall, what range of literature would be available? What percentage of the literature will be issued only by the WTS?
Kind regards
Trevor
I am the librarian for my meeting, and I am very conscious of the supply of new and older books in my community. We have many authors of books and these are the result of individual study, and are not endorsed or authorised by a central authority. Recently one writer has written three volumes on the Ministry of Jesus, another the last 7 days of his Ministry. Both of these writers are from the UK and it is interesting some of the differences of opinion on some of the incidents, but they often complement each other, giving additional perspectives.
I am waiting for the availability of the first of three volumes on Isaiah, the first becoming available this month covering Isaiah chapters 1-23. This writer is from a city in Australia. Isaiah has been one of my favourite studies and interests for many years since I attended a home Bible Class on Isaiah in my early 20s, 60 years ago. I remember my first comment in the Class when we were considering Isaiah 6. I have listened to one of the author's study series of five talks on the early chapters of Isaiah, and some of the detail I differ on. I would like to see how he tries to establish his perspective on one or two such items, but overall I am sure that I will gain significantly by his exposition. Another senior speaker gave 90 out of the 100 Bible Classes on Isaiah some years ago, and from memory he gave some different perspectives on some of the same detail, and he is from the same city in Australia. Another speaker many years ago also considered the same detail, and I mainly agree with his perspective, a perspective that he establishes from a thorough analysis and excellent insight. Possibly our two different speakers did not have access to this earlier material.
If I was to visit the local Kingdom Hall, what range of literature would be available? What percentage of the literature will be issued only by the WTS?
Kind regards
Trevor
Last edited:
Greetings again JLB,
I am not sure, but are you deliberately trying to be difficult? My other impression is that most Trinitarians are not at all familiar with the YHWH Name, and their only interest in the OT, and Exodus 3:14 especially, is to try to force God the Son into the OT narrative.
Kind regards
Trevor
You used the word "Jehovah" which has the wrong vowels as if it is a valid representation of the YHWH Name and then claimed to expound the meaning of this invalid word. As such you were aligning yourself with the JW preferred use of this invalid word, despite the JW article I quoted. This article is most probably suppressed in JW circles today. Not much of their literature today mentions this, and contrariwise, the emphasis is almost completely in the erroneous endorsement of "Jehovah" and boast concerning this usage as stated in my early posts.
I am not sure, but are you deliberately trying to be difficult? My other impression is that most Trinitarians are not at all familiar with the YHWH Name, and their only interest in the OT, and Exodus 3:14 especially, is to try to force God the Son into the OT narrative.
Kind regards
Trevor
Go back and read what I posted, and you will see that I am firmly against using the name Jehovah.
The name Jehovah means lord of ruin, or wickedness.
Like I said that you have never been caught using material outside of the Watch Tower. The Watch Tower is very deceiving in what they publish as the congregation are indoctrinated in the false teachings of this occult without knowing they are.
Do you salute the American flag, recite the pledge of allegiance or stand for or sing the national anthem as this is done out of respect for the many that laid down their life in order to keep America a free country.
But, you can ignore everything I posted in post #6. BTW, don't drink the Kool-Aid.
The one thing I have always disagreed with is that people believe that there are many different faiths or truths in the scriptures concerning the True God YHWH. I believe what the scriptures say at 2 Timothy 3:16,17. So people can talk about all these men who have written books on Isaiah or any other book that's in the scriptures. The one thing that I have found concerning the watchtower is that it keeps within the scriptures and writes literature in agreement with the scriptures, how we can put scripture into practice to make us the kind of person the True God YHWH and his only begotten Son wants us to be. Which is showing love toward the True God YHWH and follow his example concerning love toward mankind, especially showing love toward our spiritual brothers and sisters. I don't find that kind of help in those kinds of books you're talking about, or in the beliefs that other people have.
So no the watchtower doesn't have the range of literature that you talk about, thank God. I don't want to believe that God is all these different persons that these people who publish all these different books seem to teach.
I wasn't always a JW. I grew up in the Baptist and Pentecostal churches and there was too much that they said that wasn't in agreement with the scriptures. I read way too many of these kinds of books you talk about and still they didn't write anything that helped me in any way to live the kind of life the scriptures say we should live. The watchtower does do that, they are united in that loving concern to give truths that are in the scriptures to help me be the kind of person that puts the love of God first and follow his example of showing love for mankind but especially showing love for our spiritual brothers and sisters. It's true that we as individuals must put what the scriptures say into practice, no one can do that for me. But I have never gotten that kind of help from the Baptist and Pentecostal churches that I went to. I also have talked to many people who are JW's today who were in other religious churches of Christendom before becoming JW's and they like me said they weren't getting help from their churches how to put the love of God first in their lives and follow the example of God when he showed love toward mankind. These JW's I talked to like me wondered why the people in Christendom can't love like the scriptures teach us how we are to love.
I have pledged my allegiance to YHWH God, and his Christ, the only begotten Son of God, so no I don't salute the flag or sing the national anthem. I put God's kingdom first in my life not a human government.
The soldiers who laid their lives did so that we could have the freedoms we have. One of those freedoms is to be able to believe as we wish as long as we are not infringing on the rights of others. I don't agree with a lot of what people believe but they have the right to believe what they choose to believe. They disagree with me because they have the right to exercise that right. I don't get angry when someone exercising that same right I have.
So if you want to believe in saluting the flag and singing the national anthem that's your choice and you have a right to that choice. But your choice doesn't dictate what choice I must make.
You can believe whatever you want as I'm not trying to change your mind, but showing how detrimental the NWT bible is as my sister use to be a JW and when she left that Church she showed me how the Watch Tower changed the scriptures so deceivingly that it only takes a trained eye to see how they add to and take away from scripture. They are not even allowed to go into someones house if they invite them in for a Bible study as they leave their tracts and leave. How is that such a good witness of Christ. Throw them a tract and run away.
BTW, our allegiance is to God first and foremost as no would would deny that. I'm sorry you can not understand the freedom we have here in America by those who have fought for it and the symbol of the Flag that represents that freedom.
Greetings again BB1956,
Kind regards
Trevor
I believe that there is only ONE TRUE GOSPEL, but I do not accept many aspects of the JW version.
Two of my special interests are The Psalms and the Prophecy of Isaiah. Together with my private study and meditation on these, I find great value in the resources that I have accumulated over the years, starting with "internal" expositions in the form of talks and written expositions, and also some "external" reference material, translations and commentaries. I have a box with all my JW publications that I have accumulated in 60 years, but I have not encountered much on The Psalms or Isaiah, and I am am not sure if any of this would be available at the local Kingdom Hall.
Yes, they may be beneficial in this respect by comparison to what you previously experienced, but I believe that the Scriptures and the way of life in Christ is greater, more satisfying and comforting than the JW environment.
Kind regards
Trevor
People can speak all they want about the NWT, they're not going to convince me to do away with using it just as no one will tell me I can't use some other Bible if I choose to. It's only other people like you not JW's or the watchtower who are trying to tell me what Bible translation I am to use. That's why you speak against the NWT as you do, is because you want me to use some other translation, and not the NWT. So it's those like you who are trying to tell me which Bible translation I'm to use, the watchtower society doesn't care if I use the king James version, or the American Standard version, etc.
You can believe that Christendom allegiance is to God first and foremost, but I don't agree with that. Christendom churches have always made themselves a part of human governments. That's why most human governments pledge allegiance to a flag because their allegiance is to a human government. True Christians are to follow the example of Jesus Christ who did not make himself a part of any human government, because his Kingdom that he is king of is no part of this world, so no part of any human government. This kingdom which Jesus is the king of, is also called the heavenly Messianic kingdom. It is this rulership or government that will take the place of all these human governments, because all human governments will be destroyed because they refuse to acknowledge the only begotten Son of God Jesus Christ as their king. This kingdom will rule forever it will never end.
I also don't believe True Christians fight with bombs or guns etc. A True Christians warfare is a spiritual warfare. I believe our weapons are spiritual. I don't believe Jesus authorized his apostles to use guns and bombs to spread the good news about the kingdom. I most definitely don't believe he authorize his apostles to kill one another in any fashion no matter where in any nation in the world Jesus disciples were living in. So if a person who says he/she is a Christian say here in the U.S. and he/she were to go with the U.S. military to fight against any nation in the world, he/she would be helping the U.S. military to harm and kill his spiritual brothers and sisters. Why, because there are Christians in every nation, although they may be few in number in that nation because Christians are the minority of the population of any individual human nation. The scriptures teach me you suppose to love your spiritual brothers and sisters that you can see on this world. The scriptures also teach me if you can't love your spiritual brothers and sisters that you can see on this world then it's impossible for a person to love God who we can't see. I can't agree with another person who says he or she is a Christian and believes it's ok to harm or kill people who are Christians in another country, justify this killing of Christians in another country, just because they have pledged allegiance to some human government they live in. Thats not putting the kingdom that Jesus is king if first. No one will ever convince me that Christians killing one another is how Jesus taught Christians to treat one another.
So I don't believe Christendom worships God first and foremost while they're helping the human government they have pledged allegiance to, to harm and kill other Christians in another country. No one is going to convince me that Christians killing Christians is what Jesus taught. God doesn't need our country we live in to be a democratic nation or a communist nation or a dictatorship, for the good news of the Kingdom to be preached throughout the World of mankind. Those who love God and his only begotten Son, and love mankind as God loves mankind will preach the goodnews of the kingdom no matter what form of human government a true Christian lives in. It is not human government that comes first but God's kingdom that he has made his only begotten Son king of.
Makes no difference to me what version you use, but would like you to answer these two questions by using scripture.
1. Do you believe Jesus is a created being
2. Do you believe the Holy Spirit is simply a force being the method by which God interacts with the world
One of the most damaging things that I see in Christendom is that they don't teach the love that a true Christian is suppose to have. I'm not saying that Christendom doesn't speak about love, It's just that they don't teach the love the scriptures teach so they don't put into practice the kind of love that a person who is a Christian is supposed to have in their life, toward the true God, and his only begotten Son, and to love your spiritual brothers and sisters, and to follow the example of how God loved mankind. I honestly believe there's just too much lack of love in Christendom.
I'm not going to keep going round and round with you. Especially because I believe you already know the answers to these two questions. You just want to argue about it. We're not going to agree with one another what the truth is that's in the scriptures .