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[_ Old Earth _] Killing Newborns Now Embraced by Dutch Medical Profession

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tzalam2

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Dutch Set to Expand Euthanasia Guidelines

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - The Dutch government intends to expand its
current euthanasia policy, setting guidelines for when doctors may end
the lives of terminally ill newborns with the parents' consent, The
Associated Press has learned.

A letter outlining the new directives was expected to be submitted to
parliament for discussion by mid-October, but the new policy will not
require a change of law, Dutch Health Ministry spokeswoman Annette
Dijkstra said Thursday.

The new guidelines are likely to spark an outcry from the Vatican,
right-to-life proponents and some advocacy groups for the handicapped
who abhor the current policy that allows adult euthanasia if the
patients request it and if certain conditions are met.

Proponents and opponents agree the change is doubly important because it
will provide the model for how the Dutch will treat other cases in which
patients are unable to say whether they want to live or die, such as the
mentally retarded or elderly people who have become demented.

The governing conservative Christian Democrat party - a majority of
which fought legalization of euthanasia in 2001 when it was in the
opposition - will embrace the guidelines drawn up last year by doctors
at the Groningen University Medical Center.

The guidelines, known as the Groningen Protocol, prompted reactions of
shock and outrage from the Vatican and from social conservatives and
religious groups worldwide - but have received minimal coverage in the
Dutch media.

Under the protocol, euthanasia would be permissible when a child is
terminally ill with no prospect of recovery, when it is suffering great
pain, when two sets of doctors agree the situation is hopeless, and when
parents give their consent.

The Dutch Health Ministry has postponed this decision several times, and
wishes to control the release of information around the policy change,
which is still being finalized.

But Dijkstra confirmed the broad lines of the guidelines after details
began leaking to the Dutch press and to some members of the medical
industry who have been involved in the long-running debate over the
issue in the Netherlands.

Johannes Verheijden, a spokesman for the group BOSK, which represents
parents of children with motor handicaps, said the changes were morally
wrong and unnecessary.

"There is no need for a doctor to play an active role in death, the
focus should be on easing pain," he said. "There always has to be some
doubt in these cases, and the benefit of doubt should be on the side of
life."

The government will establish a vetting commission - modeled on
commissions currently in place for adult euthanasia - to test whether
conditions have been met in each case, and to refer the case to public
prosecutors if they don't. But unlike with adult euthanasia, prosecutors
won't be bound to follow the commission's judgment
that conditions have
been satisfied. (SHOCKING!)

"The public prosecutor's office will always make an independent decision
(whether to prosecute)," Dijkstra said.

The Netherlands set up adult euthanasia vetting commissions in 1998,
well before the practice was formally legalized under a 2001 law, which
took effect the following year.

The commissions report around 2,000 people are euthanized in this
country of 16 million each year, using a mix of sedatives and a lethal
dose of muscle relaxant. But independent studies suggest the number of
unreported cases is higher.
Cases of euthanasia for "people with no free will" - such as infants and
severely demented or mentally retarded people - were left in a legal
gray area by the law because they were so controversial.

They remain classified as murder, and doctors who carried out such
killings were required to report themselves to the authorities for
potential prosecution.

Government-sponsored studies in the 1990s and repeated in 2001 estimated
there are around 15-20 such infant killings in any year. Just 22 cases
were reported to the Justice Ministry between 1997 and 2004 - most
involving infants with severe damage to the brain and spine from Spina
Bifida - and the ministry decided against prosecuting any of them.

The decision was based on precedents set when doctors were taken to
court for euthanizing elderly patients and were either acquitted or
found to have acted in good conscience. Judges ruled the level of guilt
was so small it didn't merit punishment.

The main author of the protocol, Dr. Eduard Verhagen, said it was
intended to remove the confusion surrounding what is permissible.

"We think the decision is of such incredible importance that the social
responsibility of the doctor should be openly discussed and assessed,"
he told the AP.
 
Under the protocol, euthanasia would be permissible when a child is
terminally ill with no prospect of recovery, when it is suffering great
pain, when two sets of doctors agree the situation is hopeless, and when
parents give their consent.

it seems like a mercy-killing to me.
 
Loren Michael said:
Under the protocol, euthanasia would be permissible when a child is
terminally ill with no prospect of recovery, when it is suffering great
pain, when two sets of doctors agree the situation is hopeless, and when
parents give their consent.

it seems like a mercy-killing to me.

Mercy-Killing. A total oxymoronic statement. Only satan could put those two words together and leave God's purpose out of the equation. Oh well, it will only be that way until the garbage is taken out.
 
Solo said:
Loren Michael said:
Under the protocol, euthanasia would be permissible when a child is
terminally ill with no prospect of recovery, when it is suffering great
pain, when two sets of doctors agree the situation is hopeless, and when
parents give their consent.

it seems like a mercy-killing to me.

Mercy-Killing. A total oxymoronic statement. Only satan could put those two words together and leave God's purpose out of the equation. Oh well, it will only be that way until the garbage is taken out.

if the goal is to reduce suffering, it is a mercy-killing.

considering the hopeless nature of the cases that the article speaks of, it sounds like god has already made his purpose known.
 
Loren Michael said:
Solo said:
[quote="Loren Michael":22150]
Under the protocol, euthanasia would be permissible when a child is
terminally ill with no prospect of recovery, when it is suffering great
pain, when two sets of doctors agree the situation is hopeless, and when
parents give their consent.

it seems like a mercy-killing to me.

Mercy-Killing. A total oxymoronic statement. Only satan could put those two words together and leave God's purpose out of the equation. Oh well, it will only be that way until the garbage is taken out.

if the goal is to reduce suffering, it is a mercy-killing.

considering the hopeless nature of the cases that the article speaks of, it sounds like god has already made his purpose known.[/quote:22150]
Your God is different than my God. He is able to keep his while some of those around do not understand. God does not work by opinion polls.
 
Solo said:
Loren Michael said:
Solo said:
[quote="Loren Michael":fdb19]
Under the protocol, euthanasia would be permissible when a child is
terminally ill with no prospect of recovery, when it is suffering great
pain, when two sets of doctors agree the situation is hopeless, and when
parents give their consent.

it seems like a mercy-killing to me.

Mercy-Killing. A total oxymoronic statement. Only satan could put those two words together and leave God's purpose out of the equation. Oh well, it will only be that way until the garbage is taken out.

if the goal is to reduce suffering, it is a mercy-killing.

considering the hopeless nature of the cases that the article speaks of, it sounds like god has already made his purpose known.
Your God is different than my God. He is able to keep his while some of those around do not understand. God does not work by opinion polls.[/quote:fdb19]
could you elaborate, please?
 
Loren Michael said:
Solo said:
[quote="Loren Michael":a766a]
Solo said:
[quote="Loren Michael":a766a]
Under the protocol, euthanasia would be permissible when a child is
terminally ill with no prospect of recovery, when it is suffering great
pain, when two sets of doctors agree the situation is hopeless, and when
parents give their consent.

it seems like a mercy-killing to me.

Mercy-Killing. A total oxymoronic statement. Only satan could put those two words together and leave God's purpose out of the equation. Oh well, it will only be that way until the garbage is taken out.

if the goal is to reduce suffering, it is a mercy-killing.

considering the hopeless nature of the cases that the article speaks of, it sounds like god has already made his purpose known.
Your God is different than my God. He is able to keep his while some of those around do not understand. God does not work by opinion polls.[/quote:a766a]
could you elaborate, please?[/quote:a766a]

God doesn't need unsaved man to interupt His plans for individuals; He can deliver the needy in His own timing. Man is not God, nor is man able to know all that is involved in God's timing and plans; therefore man should not play God. Mercy-Killing is an oxymoron and is definitely not a Godly practice.
 
Solo said:
God doesn't need unsaved man to interupt His plans for individuals; He can deliver the needy in His own timing. Man is not God, nor is man able to know all that is involved in God's timing and plans; therefore man should not play God. Mercy-Killing is an oxymoron and is definitely not a Godly practice.

a few things:

a) can god's plan be interrupted by unsaved men?

b) what should be done about suffering, dying infants that are beyond saving?

c) are you saying that man should never kill?
 
Loren Michael said:
Solo said:
God doesn't need unsaved man to interupt His plans for individuals; He can deliver the needy in His own timing. Man is not God, nor is man able to know all that is involved in God's timing and plans; therefore man should not play God. Mercy-Killing is an oxymoron and is definitely not a Godly practice.

a few things:

a) can god's plan be interrupted by unsaved men?

b) what should be done about suffering, dying infants that are beyond saving?

c) are you saying that man should never kill?

Man does not need to interupt God's will for life. Men that do will be judged for their acts against the truth of God.

All suffering, dying including infants should be prayed over, given the best medical care possible, and their lives fought for until the very end. No one knows when a miracle of God will occur.

Man should never murder. The killing of those that are unable to protect themselves under the guise of mercy-killing is murder.

Killing others in the act of war, self-defense, judgment, is allowed.
 
Solo said:
Loren Michael said:
Solo said:
God doesn't need unsaved man to interupt His plans for individuals; He can deliver the needy in His own timing. Man is not God, nor is man able to know all that is involved in God's timing and plans; therefore man should not play God. Mercy-Killing is an oxymoron and is definitely not a Godly practice.

a few things:

a) can god's plan be interrupted by unsaved men?

b) what should be done about suffering, dying infants that are beyond saving?

c) are you saying that man should never kill?

Man does not need to interupt God's will for life. Men that do will be judged for their acts against the truth of God.

All suffering, dying including infants should be prayed over, given the best medical care possible, and their lives fought for until the very end. No one knows when a miracle of God will occur.

Man should never murder. The killing of those that are unable to protect themselves under the guise of mercy-killing is murder.

Killing others in the act of war, self-defense, judgment, is allowed.

i do not believe that man can circumvent god's plan, or preempt a miracle. why am i wrong? it seems like a miracle, if it is going to happen to a child, can happen before or after the child dies.

a mercy-killing is not an oxymoron because it it done for the reason of mercy, not vindictiveness. a person is killed because it is understood that to continue an existence of enduring pain with no relief is cruel. the act itself may be morally reprehensible to some, but the intentions are of mercy.

another question, kind of a hypothetical, i guess-

you see in the movies people promising to make a death quick, or killing a friend that has no hope, etc. i'm sure you know what i'm talking about. the drama comes from both the villans and heroes. is this something other than a mercy-killing- when then only other option is to let them die slowly?
 
Solo said:
Man does not need to interupt God's will for life. Men that do will be judged for their acts against the truth of God
Man cannot interupt God's will to life. If it is God's will that a baby lives, nothing any man can do can ever change that. Likewise, if these Dutch doctor's kill a baby, God's will has been done. You act like men have the power to twart God, and that simply isn't the case. God's will is always done--even if these men are sinning by killing the baby, it is nevertheless God's will that the baby be dead.


All suffering, dying including infants should be prayed over,
I agree, we should definitely pray for the troubled amonst us.
given the best medical care possible,
I disagree here. The "best medical care possible" is ridiculously expensive. If we treated every sick person with the "best", all of our resources would go into keeping very sick/dying people alive. It seems absolutely anti-Christian to me for Christians to advocate spending hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in prolonging our temporary existence on this Earth when that money could be used for such better things like ministering the Gospel.

and their lives fought for until the very end.
Once again, fighting costs money, lots of it. It's a fact that we're all going to die, so all you're doing by spending all that money is delaying the inevitable. Why should we waste our time, money, and resources delaying inevitable death? Once again, all could be better used spreading the Gospel and bringing people to real life.

No one knows when a miracle of God will occur.
No, they don't. But God does know the exact milisecond the person is going to die. So, if he wants to perform a miracle, he will do so. If he doesn't, no amount of delaying death and artificially keeping someone alive is going to change that.
Man should never murder.
Correct.

The killing of those that are unable to protect themselves under the guise of mercy-killing is murder.

Killing others in the act of war, self-defense, judgment, is allowed.

This is your own, wrong, arbitrary, opinion. Mercy killing is no more murder than any of those other things you mentioned.
 
It is truly a shame that some attribute cost to life. Amazing that the dollar is more important than the life of an individual.


For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Timothy 6:10


And the devil forth as a roaring lion seeking to whom he can devour.


Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1 Peter 5:8

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Revelation 12:4
 
Solo said:
It is truly a shame that some attribute cost to life.
Unless you have amazing farming and handiwork skills, it's a simple fact that it costs money to keep someone alive. How is it a shame to note this fact? And some people with special needs simply cost more money to keep alive than other people. Once again, a fact.

Amazing that the dollar is more important than the life of an individual.
Where did anyone say that? It's what other valuable activities that can be done with the money wasted to keep someone artificially alive, such as working to further God's kingdom's and help souls gain eternal life, which is far far far more valuable than any temporal life on this Earth. Do you not agree that spending money to help someone gain eternal life is vastly more valuable than spending money to help someone temporarlity extend physical life?
 
God is the one who determines the point at which one lives and dies. No man has the authority to cut another's time short on this earth no matter the cost.


Euthanasia is a tool of the devil no matter what name you want to label it with; mercy-killing is an oxymoron and deceptive as is the abortion dens of this nation called planned parenthood.
 
A total oxymoronic statement. Only satan could put those two words together and leave God's purpose out of the equation.

Agreed. Man has gone off the deep end, in deciding to elevate his will above God's will.
Gone stark raving mad.

!!And some people with special needs simply cost more money to keep alive than other people. Once again, a fact
Where's your mercy? Have you no pity, no compassion for those who can not take care of themselves??

!!such as working to further God's kingdom's and help souls gain eternal life, which is far far far more valuable than any temporal life on this Earth. Do you not agree that spending money to help someone gain eternal life is vastly more valuable than spending money to help someone temporarlity extend physical life?
Cubed, your words will condemn you some day. You care not one bit for saving lost souls, yet, you try this little trickery to see if some naive person will stumble.
You're sick at heart.
When a life begins, AT CONCEPTION, by the way, it is not up to any human to kill that person. Abortion is wrong. It's killing a soul. It's killing an entire generation! Euthanasia is a lie. It isn't a mercy killing. It's worshipping yourself above God. It's holding yourself, or your doctor's OPINION, up like the golden calf, and you worship yourself and adore the death decision of some misguided person above submission to God's will for your LIFE.

!! in prolonging our temporary existence on this Earth when that money could be used for such better things like ministering the Gospel.
How many souls did you win for Jesus, today?
How many children did you tell the Gospel of Jesus to, this week?

!!if the goal is to reduce suffering, it is a mercy-killing.
What a broad paintbrush mankind is using to rationalize his murderous nature, his SELFISHNESS, his disrespect for another human being!

This article was posted to prove, to PROVE, how few people care about the other guy or gal.
Most of you in here are lost, and are in here to provoke disagreements.
This article shows you how people are sliding down a slippery slope to spiritual death.
 
tzalam2 said:
A total oxymoronic statement. Only satan could put those two words together and leave God's purpose out of the equation.
God is in the equation. He is a God of mercy, and he condones killing for the purpose of showing mercy.

!!And some people with special needs simply cost more money to keep alive than other people. Once again, a fact
Where's your mercy? Have you no pity, no compassion for those who can not take care of themselves??
Of course I pity. It's not a matter of lacking compassion, it's a matter of being practical and knowing when it is more compassionate to allow a life to end naturally as God wills than to continue to artificially prolong it.

!!such as working to further God's kingdom's and help souls gain eternal life, which is far far far more valuable than any temporal life on this Earth. Do you not agree that spending money to help someone gain eternal life is vastly more valuable than spending money to help someone temporarlity extend physical life?
Cubed, your words will condemn you some day. You care not one bit for saving lost souls, yet, you try this little trickery to see if some naive person will stumble.
You're sick at heart.
And you falsely slander me, so go repent of your false witness.


Euthanasia is a lie.
No.
It isn't a mercy killing.
Yes, it actually is.


It's worshipping yourself above God.
Know, the decision isn't about me one tiny little bit. That's completely moronic.
It's holding yourself, or your doctor's OPINION, up like the golden calf, and you worship yourself and adore the death decision of some misguided person above submission to God's will for your LIFE.
God gave us free will, and it is his will that we exercise that and that we make moral decisions for him. Blindly saying "Never kill" is not a moral decision. Sin comes from the heart and killing someone is not murder if the intention is not evil. Mercy killing is not to be taken lightly, is a horrible decision to make, but it it not a decision that displeases God, nor is it any of the ranting and raving things that you claim.

!! in prolonging our temporary existence on this Earth when that money could be used for such better things like ministering the Gospel.
How many souls did you win for Jesus, today?
How many children did you tell the Gospel of Jesus to, this week?
How do these questions have any bearing whatsoever on the issue?

!!if the goal is to reduce suffering, it is a mercy-killing.
What a broad paintbrush mankind is using to rationalize his murderous nature, his SELFISHNESS, his disrespect for another human being!
What a twisted self-righteous simplistic deluded mindset you must have to say such outlandish and absurd tripe
 
Solo said:
No man has the authority to cut another's time short on this earth no matter the cost.
Solo said:
Killing others in the act of war, self-defense, judgment, is allowed.
Funny how you seem to contradict yourself like that.
 
Solo said:
God is the one who determines the point at which one lives and dies. No man has the authority to cut another's time short on this earth no matter the cost.


Euthanasia is a tool of the devil no matter what name you want to label it with; mercy-killing is an oxymoron and deceptive as is the abortion dens of this nation called planned parenthood.

Yes, God is the One Who is supposed to decide who lives and when they die. Man and woman have decided to elevate themselves to godhood, and have thrown Jesus out.
They don't want anyone to interfere with their hedonistic lifestyles. And, euthanasia is a choking vine stemming from the basic misconception atheists have about the sanctity of life.

God allows people freedom of choice. He also has penalties to those who reject TRUTH. It may not be popular, or the most "FUN" thing, to allow a sick person to die when GOD lets them die, but, it is what we should do.
Yes, take the person off of breathing machines, after all has been done to try to keep them alive.
In the case of abortion, this is a heinous crime of child abuse, in the first degree. This is deliberately going after a child, and mutilating it, and throwing it's body into a bucket.
The 2 are linked hand in hand, and both are tools of the devil.
 
How many souls did you win for Jesus, today?
How many children did you tell the Gospel of Jesus to, this weekHow do these questions have any bearing whatsoever on the issue?

CB, if you were a concerned Christian, you'd understand how those questions have an immediate bearing on this issue.

!!if the goal is to reduce suffering, it is a mercy-killing.
What a broad paintbrush mankind is using to rationalize his murderous nature, his SELFISHNESS, his disrespect for another human being!
What a twisted self-righteous simplistic deluded mindset you must have to say such outlandish and absurd tripe[/quote]
Ah ha! I've hit the nail on the head.
Your comfort zone has been invaded, and you don't have anything
rational to use in debate, so you lower your level of communications to that
of middle school insults and sophomoric rage.
 

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