Legalism

[Consecrated Life]

….If God wanted us to be saved like the thief then….why didnt he tell us? Please show me in the NT where we are instructed to be saved like the thief? I

Here then :

Jhn 6:37
... him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This is how I was saved , and exactly how the one thief managed to be saved while the other thief perished .
He came to Jesus.
Do you understand the spiritual implication Jesus is making here when he speaks of a person who :"cometh to me " ?
I'm not confident that you do understand implied spiritual content of Jesus's referring to one who "cometh to me "

These words of Jesus speaking about those who "cometh to me" that He "will in no wise cast out" also answers your continued bewilderment and profound lack of spiritual discernment concerning Paul's salvation .
Jesus's word's concerning the circumstance of those who "cometh to me" being saved can never have application to Paul's salvation.
Ever!
Paul, by his own initiative , never came to Jesus .
Jesus hunted him down.
Write that down.
No other member of the human race ever was, or ever will be, saved by being hunted down by the risen Christ as Paul was.
Your despondence over hundreds of millions of believers being saved by coming to Jesus first out of their own aching hearts and alarmed souls, rather than being hunted down as Paul was.
Jesus never spoke a word to the repentant thief , until the thief first came to Him.

Jhn 6:37
... him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Cnkw3]

Here then :

Jhn 6:37
... him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This is how I was saved , and exactly how the one thief managed to be saved while the other thief perished .
He came to Jesus.
Do you understand the spiritual implication Jesus is making here when he speaks of a person who :"cometh to me " ?
I'm not confident that you do understand implied spiritual content of Jesus's referring to one who "cometh to me "

These words of Jesus speaking about those who "cometh to me" that He "will in no wise cast out" also answers your continued bewilderment and profound lack of spiritual discernment concerning Paul's salvation .
Jesus's word's concerning the circumstance of those who "cometh to me" being saved can never have application to Paul's salvation.
Ever!
Paul, by his own initiative , never came to Jesus .
Jesus hunted him down.
Write that down.
No other member of the human race ever was, or ever will be, saved by being hunted down by the risen Christ as Paul was.
Your despondence over hundreds of millions of believers being saved by coming to Jesus first out of their own aching hearts and alarmed souls, rather than being hunted down as Paul was.
Jesus never spoke a word to the repentant thief , until the thief first came to Him.

Jhn 6:37
... him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Pretty vague. How does one…”come to Jesus”? If you keep reading you will find out that there is more to this than the vague response you just gave.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:44-45
No man can “come to Christ” as you say without first the father drawing them. And how does he do that? Through teaching. One first has to hear and then learn before they can “come to Jesus”. If you would keep reading and let the Bible define what it means then you wont be so confused.
So nobody was ever saved like Paul? Uh no. Paul just like everybody else first heard and learned of the son. His was a direct encounter where others were indirect through preaching. Everybody including Paul first hears and then learns and THEN is obedient to the saving of the soul. It is all the same. This is why all the examples that we read about are the same. And none of them follow the pattern of the thief.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jhn 6:37
... him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out

Pretty vague. How does one…”come to Jesus”?

I do not suppose that I could be as thankful as I am to the Lord and Master for this precious promise that if it seemed " vague" to me .
However having touched the very depths of my being, and fulfilling my deepest need with the overflowing love contained within His promise to be my everlasting portion beyond the grave I can only say that I am glad it is not "vague" to me.

 

[Consecrated Life]

So nobody was ever saved like Paul? Uh no. Paul just like everybody else first heard and learned of the son. His was a direct encounter where others were indirect through preaching.

Paul was hunted down by the physical presence of Jesus Christ, slammed to the ground , and physically shackled with darkness and made to understand against his will .
No other person in history was ever physically kicked into a corner by Jesus Himself that they might understand and accept.
Not you. not me , nobody this side of the cross was ever saved being physically cornered by Christ Himself except Paul
And you can't name one?
Paul was the one exception chosen specifically by Christ to be converted in what amounted to a physical beatdown that he might see the light:

Act 9:15
¶
.... he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

And this was just the first of many beatdowns Paul was to endure from Jesus:

Act 9:16
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

There is actually a single Old Testament instance of such a forced physical conversion foisted on a person.
Do you know who that was?
I have a feeling you probably do not know.
And identically there is no other person in the Old Testament who was ever physically converted as he was.

 

[Cnkw3]

Paul was hunted down by the physical presence of Jesus Christ, slammed to the ground , and physically shackled with darkness and made to understand against his will .

paul WAS NOT made to do anything against his will.

No other person in history was ever physically kicked into a corner by Jesus Himself that they might understand and accept.
Not you. not me , nobody this side of the cross was ever saved being physically cornered by Christ Himself except Paul
And you can't name one?

paul wasn’t saved this way either. You are making this up. After Jesus was raised from the dead he appeared to people for 40 days. Why is Paul any different then the other apostles? Paul WAS NOT saved on the road. He was then told to go into the city and it would be told him what he must do. so far Paul had believed, repented, and confessed him as lord and will ultimately be obedient in baptism washing away his sins. Just like those on Pentecost. Just like those in Samaria. Just like the Eunuch. Just like Cornelius. it took 3 miracles to save Cornelius and his family. Do you discount their example because miracles were performed? miracles were performed at about all of these conversions. Christ came to Paul, not for salvation, but in order to send him out as an apostle. Nobody else was needed to be an apostle so that is why Jesus appeared to no others post ascension. So YES you are very confused in your Bible understanding.

Paul was the one exception chosen specifically by Christ to be converted in what amounted to a physical beatdown that he might see the light:

Act 9:15
¶
.... he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

And this was just the first of many beatdowns Paul was to endure from Jesus:

Act 9:16
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

There is actually a single Old Testament instance of such a forced physical conversion foisted on a person.
Do you know who that was?
I have a feeling you probably do not know.
And identically there is no other person in the Old Testament who was ever physically converted as he was.

I just showed you above that Paul became a Christian like everyone else. He heard the word of the lord. He believed, repented, confessed him as lord and then was baptized to wash his sins away. And yes he could have said no. He DID NOT become a Christian on the road in the presence of the lord.

 

[jerry63935]

Do you understand the spiritual implication Jesus is making here when he speaks of a person who :"cometh to me " ?

no he dont iam not sure he even knows what he believes

 

[jerry63935]

Paul WAS NOT saved on the road.

you better read your bible' MORE close or get a different one

 

[Cnkw3]

Jhn 6:37
... him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out


I do not suppose that I could be as thankful as I am to the Lord and Master for this precious promise that if it seemed " vague" to me .
However having touched the very depths of my being, and fulfilling my deepest need with the overflowing love contained within His promise to be my everlasting portion beyond the grave I can only say that I am glad it is not "vague" to me.

Will you not at least admit that the lord said….
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
there is not one person that can come to Christ! EXCEPT. With this one exception the father made it possible to even “come to Christ”. And that is…the father must draw them! And the next verse tells how he does it. So yes you were been very vague. You withheld the most important piece of information on “coming to Christ”. You either did it out of ignorance or on purpose to support your false doctrine.

 

[Cnkw3]

you better read your bible' MORE close or get a different one

was he still in his sins on the road? He is in my Bible.

 

[jerry63935]

was he still in his sins on the road? He is in my Bible.

he was in sin before he got saved on his way to prosecute Christians God struck him down by bright light his words who art though Lord? what would you have me do his testimony is recorded twice in acts . actually i have seen a lot of twisted scripture but you take the top

 

[jerry63935]

there is not one person that can come to Christ! EXCEPT. With this one exception the father made it possible to even “come to Christ”. And that is…the father must draw them!

aka classic Calvinism doctrine

 

[Cnkw3]

he was in sin before he got saved on his way to prosecute Christians God struck him down by bright light his words who art though Lord? what would you have me do his testimony is recorded twice in acts . actually i have seen a lot of twisted scripture but you take the top

A person cannot be “saved” while still in their sins. The Bible clearly reads that he was still in his sins on the road. Im sorry you have a hard time with reading comprehension but it was Paul himself that tells us this fact. It was not until he got into the city and had fasted for three days that Ananias came in and told him this….
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16
He was told to do something in order to remove his sins so therefore he was still in his sins. He had not been forgiven yet which means he WAS NOT SAVED until he washed his sins away. Your false doctrine that you to cling has blinded you to a point you will never be able to repent. Im sorry for that.

 

[Cnkw3]

aka classic Calvinism doctrine

Did I quote jesus or not? No man can come to Jesus EXCEPT the father draw him. Now Calvanism would say that the father specifically picks out certain people but the lord explains HOW the father draws people and it is through his word. Teaching and learning. Jn 6:44,45
Again Im sorry some of you are so far gone that you can no longer accept clear Bible passages. You will deny until you take your last breath. Thats sad.

 

[JLB]

“Legalism“ or “Legalist” are terms I see thrown around quite a bit. They are mainly used by people that teach we are saved by faith alone or by grace alone and that there is NOTHING you can do for salvation and there is NOTHING you can do to stay saved. Les Feldick comes to mind. David Jeremiah said this recently……
He defined “legalism” as being judged by your ability to do certain things and not do other things. A “return to the law”.
He and all others will throw this around but wont quote scripture to back it up because you cant find it in the Bible. I do not even think the word “legal” is even in the Bible. This is a made up misused concept!

The first thing is this….If you are doing something in obedience to God under the proper covenant it CANNOT be “legalism”. If God directed it as a part of his law then it is not legalism. Because what you are saying is that you are doing something wrong through your obedience and I don’t believe this is true. Feel free to prove me wrong. We are told that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to ALL that OBEY him.

Second is…..True “legalism” would be binding a law or a practice on someone that came from man and not God. A perfect example of that are the Pharisees in Jesus day. They came up with their own additions to the law and they bound them on the people. These didnt come from God they came from man and Jesus condemned it and them.
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Matthew 15:2-3
Legalism!

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matthew 15:7-9
There is the best Bible definition I can find for this man made term…”legalism”. It is “teaching for doctrine the commandments of men”.
So when David Jeremiah calls me a “legalist“ for “adding baptism to the gospel” we can know he is a false teacher. Why? Because it was Jesus not me that said…
preach the gospel to every creature, he that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
So this directive that includes baptism as a part of salvation is not a “doctrine of man” so therefore CANNOT be “legalism”.

Great topic for discussion.

There is much being thrown at the Church these days in the way of deception, by Satan so that she might be carried away in deception.

However, there is coming something even more frightening in the way of deception and may have already begun, as we witness the horrendous lies being preached from the pulpit in this hour such as ...

• Women have the (constitutional) "right" to murder their own child.

• People have the (right) to choose which gender they want to be.

• Homosexuality is normal.

• Loving God and obeying Him is a work of the law.

• Parents who choose not to vaccinate their children are reckless and a danger to society.

• You don't have to hear and believe the Gospel to be saved, because you were chosen to be saved and God saved you "sovereignly".

• There are many ways to God other than Jesus Christ.

The terrifying thing I believe we are witnessing concerning deception is, God Himself is sending a strong delusion to those who refuse to love and embrace the truth... So that they will believe the lie.

...and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

again


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timorhy 4:1







JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Again Im sorry some of you are so far gone that you can no longer accept clear Bible passages. You will deny until you take your last breath. Thats sad.

iam sorry you twist scriptures with your way of thinking

 

[JLB]

iam sorry you twist scriptures with your way of thinking

Can you please be more specific about which scripture he twisted?

Please share what you believe he twisted and how you interpret the specific scripture that you believe he twisted?


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

do you support every thing he posted?

A person cannot be “saved” while still in their sins. The Bible clearly reads that he was still in his sins on the road. Im sorry you have a hard time with reading comprehension but it was Paul himself that tells us this fact. It was not until he got into the city and had fasted for three days that Ananias came in and told him this….
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16
He was told to do something in order to remove his sins so therefore he was still in his sins. He had not been forgiven yet which means he WAS NOT SAVED until he washed his sins away. Your false doctrine that you to cling has blinded you to a point you will never be able to repent. Im sorry for that.

 

[jerry63935]

A person cannot be “saved” while still in their sins.

apparently you dont understand justification btw i was still in sin the night i got saved was justified the moment i said God save me read Ephesians 2:
1 And you hath he quickened, present who were dead in trespasses and sins; {past} quickened means to be made alive verse 1 present past

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

 

[JLB]

do you support every thing he posted?

No.

Could you please share with us what scripture you believe he twisted, and how you yourself understand the scripture you believe he twisted?


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

No.

Could you please share with us what scripture you believe he twisted, and how you yourself understand the scripture you believe he twisted?


JLB

if you dont support it nether do i my reply would be no everyone can read for themselves