Legalism

[jaybo]

Gods' heart went out to us when his Son came into this world. If he came at that time for judgment, that would have been the end of the unrepentant. Instead, he showed mercy towards those who hated him. This Godly love is the attitude toward us before we turned to him It's why we turned to him.

I wasn't talking about our attitude "after" coming to know Jesus.

I haven't forgotten. Dying to the law "also" (meaning as our Lord did), is a matter of not enforcing it, because the law could not condemn God in the flesh. Jesus didn't become dead to the law by his own sin, but by the sins inflicted on him by ungodly men. By law, Jesus could have had everyone one of them executed Immediately. And since our Innocent Savior considered himself dead to the law, how much more should we the guilty?

This verse defines "those who are in Christ Jesus" as, those who "walk not after the flesh, but the Spirit."

The law of the Spirit is the 2 commandments Jesus said to keep.

In other words, on earth, only Jesus was sinless, keeping the whole law.

In other words, God appeared as any othet sinner, but he wasn't a sinner.

In other words, he put their sin against him to death...according to the law of Moses. According to Moses, they should have been executed,

if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite,
then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. Deu.19:18-19

In other words, fulfill the law as our King did... walking after his example.

I agree. Do you agree slaughtering the Lamb should produce sorrow, confession and a true desire to turn from our sins against him?

Have you forgotten about the resurrection and the forgiveness of all sin? How about the joy of the Lord?

 

[jaybo]

I do not agree that "slaughtering the Lamb" should produce sorrow, confession and a true desire to turn from our sins against him?

Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.' There is no remorse over slaughtering, no guilt, no suffering, or anything resembling those emotions mentioned here.

 

[journeyman]

Have you forgotten about the resurrection and the forgiveness of all sin? How about the joy of the Lord?

I'm overjoyed Jesus conquered sin and death and forgives anyone who desires it. I'm not overjoyed that Jesus was tortured.

 

[journeyman]

I do not agree that "slaughtering the Lamb" should produce sorrow, confession and a true desire to turn from our sins against him?

Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.' There is no remorse over slaughtering, no guilt, no suffering, or anything resembling those emotions mentioned here.

I think God is happy about the fruit produced when we do good to those who hate us. I don't think God is happy about those who hate us.

 

[andy pandy]

You want to take up for casinos? They do so much good for society.

You want to take up for porn and soft porn? You think Gods ok with that? I could post passages to this stuff but what’s the use?

What does “lascivious” mean? In your opinion of higher learning.
See, I told you that you teach false doctrine. You stand up for casinos, porn, movies with horrible language, and shaking, grabbing and grinding with someone of the opposite sex out of marriage.
And all you can say is….”that sounds like legalism”! Its good to know that your school of higher learning taught you that God has no law we are to be obedient too.

Sarcasm Yuk!

 

[Hopeful]

sigh the doctrine of the Blood attornment.
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Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Will those whose sins were not washed away be saved?
When/where are they washed away?
Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 22:16..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

is it the same ? NO the very moment we get saved/born again our sins are forgiven justification .

I will go beyond calling myself converted, and start saying I am saved, on the day of my judgement.

when you show me scripturas that says we are justified by water baptism . i will change my belief .
no man has indoctrinated me . i have read my Bible and salvation is all about what Christ did for us.
called grace --the divine favor of God

The most succinct verse may be 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Washed, sanctified, ad justified in the name of Jesus Christ.
And where is it we call upon the name of the Lord Jesus ?
At our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
By God's grace, we have been given the gifts of repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

Those with sin on them show they have yet to repent of sin.
It shows they are still walking after the flesh instead of after the Spirit.
It shows they are not reborn of God's seed.
As the old sins are washed away by the blood of Christ at our immersion into Christ and into His death and burial, the unbaptized have more to do before calling themselves converted, justified, or sanctified.

grace in (sic) his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Amen to that.

Ephesians​

Chapter 2​

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yep, circumcision, feast keeping, Sabbath keeping, and dietary rules won't benefit our conversion or eventual salvation.

show me water baptism the great commission go teach then baptize romans Ephesians both nothing being baptized to be saved

It is written..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)
Don't the words Jesus spoke carry more weight than what Paul didn't speak?

first part your just about to come out of left field
our name is written the lambs book of life the moment we get saved/born again
i have a know so salvation. you labor to keep your salvation . mine is kept by the power of GOD

Scripture, please.
Where is it written that our names get entered into the book of life at a certain time?

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Kept by the power of God with sin still on us?
I think not.

you just had a Sunday morning message on a Saturday.
i have showed you enough scripture to more than counter your water baptism salvation.

It is written..."The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us ... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" (1 Peter 3:21)
It is written..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:5)
If we are buried with Him we can also be raised with Him, to walk in newness of life.
Baptism is our immersion into that burial.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

there only 3 groups i am aware of who places strong emphasis on water baptism to wash sins away.

do we have to be baptized to be saved ? NO should baptism follow salvation YES IT SHOULD its a statement you are ready to follow Christ and it is symbolic of the watery grave and the new man resurrected .

It is more that a symbol.
It is our actual immersion into Christ and into those things He endured.
Like Peter writes..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1Peter 4:1)
Has your doctrine allowed you to cease committing sin?

might i add 2nd Corinthians 5:21 its all about Christ and the finished works of the cross and him rising again on the 3rd day .
no water baptism

The finished work of the cross on which our old man of sin, (Rom 6;6), flesh, vile affections, and lusts, (Gal 5:24). is crucified with Christ...by faith in the graceful gift of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

why ask me if you know ? my entire answers is based on justification the vey act of our sins forgiven .the very moment of salvation
read the new cov hebrews 8
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

do your home work prove me wrong

Read Romans 6, as it is in context with chapter 8.
Chapter 6 is about the destruction of the old man who walked in the flesh, and chapter 8 is about the new man that walks in the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

it shows oh and BTW i am the pastor and your correct on another thing on the new cov.. it has nothing to do with water baptism . its based on the finished works of Christ here add some more water to your work based salvation . maybe i should find the kind bible you use so i can understand mine teaches Blood attornment and justified by grace blood faith.

i have observed not once have you used any of them

Very simply, baptism is an outward testimony of the inward change in a believer’s life. Christian baptism is an act of obedience to the Lord after salvation; although baptism is closely associated with salvation, it is not a requirement to be saved. ( read the article ) your either apostolic , church of Christ or catholic . they are the only 3 i know of holds your belief

What is the meaning of the blood of Christ? | GotQuestions.org

What is the meaning of the blood of Christ? Why is the blood of Jesus so emphasized in the New Testament?

www.gotquestions.org

once again this is written by a Calvinist . while i am not Calvinist i do agree with the article.

lets see the old song what can wash away my sins? nothing but the Blood of Jesus .

' when i see the Blood i will pass over you . we take Lords supper two elements are represented the Blood and his broken body

That blood "passes over you" while you hang on the cross with Christ at your immersion into Him and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-6)
The end result?
"For he that is dead is freed form sin." (Rom 6:7)

 

[jerry63935]

That blood "passes over you" while you hang on the cross with Christ at your immersion into Him and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-6)
The end result?
"For he that is dead is freed form sin." (Rom 6:7)

 

[Hopeful]

Do you have an alternate method for applying the justifying, sanctifying, blood of Christ to your body?

 

[jerry63935]

applying the justifying, sanctifying, blood of Christ to your body?

justified by grace by the Blood by Faith no water baptism by the way sanctified is a on going progress set apart to be made Holy .the baptism in rom 6 is outward symbolic .this is why john baptism was external Christ Baptism is eternal by the spirit not water baptism... i am through explaining this any more iw ill put you on ignore have a good day

 

[Hopeful]

justified by grace by the Blood by Faith no water baptism by the way sanctified is a on going progress set apart to be made Holy

Do you have any idea how long that "progress" should take?
A year. 5 years, 10?
Ever met anyone who was actually all the way sanctified (set apart, made holy, atoned for, consecrated) ?
My sanctification happened when the sanctifying blood was applied to my body.
You shouldn't allow any doctrine to hinder your consecration.

.the baptism in rom 6 is outward symbolic .this is why john baptism was external Christ Baptism is eternal by the spirit not water baptism... i am through explaining this any more iw ill put you on ignore have a good day

It was a real event for me, thanks be to God.

 

[jerry63935]

My sanctification happened when the sanctifying blood was applied to my body.

yes same as justified sanctification is growth stage positional ( saved by one spirit baptized in to the Body) progressive { W.I.P we grow in the grace and knowledge ) ultimate ( the process is done we made it home ) THERE IS NO WATER BAPTISM IN BEING JUSTIFIED

 

[Hopeful]

yes same as justified sanctification is growth stage positional ( saved by one spirit baptized in to the Body) progressive { W.I.P we grow in the grace and knowledge ) ultimate ( the process is done we made it home ) THERE IS NO WATER BAPTISM IN BEING JUSTIFIED

"Growth stage positional"...
Another catch-phrase from the "partially" sanctified.
Also, an accommodation for more sinning!
We should all be praying to grow in grace and knowledge, but we all start out holy, justified, atoned for, consecrated, and set aside.
You are positing that the justifying, atoning sanctifying blood of Christ is applied in a trickle, and not a flood.
I can't agree.

 

[jerry63935]

I can't agree.

i dont think i asked you to agree maybe you need to be baptized again ..this ends right here

 

[Hopeful]

i dont think i asked you to agree maybe you need to be baptized again ..this ends right here

Just the way of all forums, we can walk away when we want.

 

[andy pandy]

Heard it on his radio program.

So he actually called yoou by your name?

 

[gordon777]

Hopeful: "The most succinct verse may be 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Washed, sanctified, ad justified in the name of Jesus Christ.
And where is it we call upon the name of the Lord Jesus ?
At our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
By God's grace, we have been given the gifts of repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins."




Now I can show us all again what legalism is.

The above scripture quote is telling us of justification in the name of Jesus Christ. ( we are to believe in His name alone in all of this world) and how that justification occurs, is by the Spirit of our God.

For that sanctification, and justification, and Spirit of God, is entirely through the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ...





1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.



We enter in entirely by the blood of Jesus, as this is a new living way. ( water is not living)

That is WHY, it was testified FIRST, how LIVING WATERS WILL GO OUT FROM JERUSALEM, so we BELIEVE IN LIVING WATERS, TO BE THE NEW LIVING WAY.

Then we UNDERSTAND, how Jesus REVEALING to us, OUT OF HIS BELLY SHALL FLOW RIVERS OF LIVING WATER, is for us to believe in the blood of Jesus Christ.

After Jesus has died, out of His pierced side came out WATER AND BLOOD.

This had to be made witness ( recorded) as it is a true record of the truth so we might believe. ( in the blood and water of Jesus that are both living)

The living sprinkling blood of Jesus speaks better than Abel, as it gives man faith in the everlasting God.







Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.




Now, we enter ONLY, by that NEW LIVING WAY.

Now we draw nigh in a true heart in full assurance of faith, by having our hearts sprinkled( by the blood of sprinkling by believing in the living blood and living water of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior) from that evil conscience ( of unbelief in the LIVING WATER AND LIVING BLOOD) and THIS IS OUR BODIES WASHED IN PURE WATER, THERE IS NO OTHER WATER LIVING BUT THE LIVING WATER THAT CAME OUT OF THE BELLY OF JESUS CHRIST.

Legalism is when we wash with water of this world in baptism, ( not living water and faith not living in our heart) instead of the water that has been testified to the world to believe in, which is then not legalism, but is faith.)

faith is to know baptism is the good conscience to believe in all things of Jesus Christ, rather than the confusion of men, and that belief in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead IS BAPTISM FOR MAN.





Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[gordon777]

Does anyone agree with me, or even understand what was just testified ?

 

[gordon777]

That is the testimony God gave of His Son. That testimony is given so we believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Spirit bears witness because it is truth. It was borne witness that out of the side of Jesus after His death came out the water and the blood ( so we believe in the living)

That is the three bearing witness in Heaven, which three are ONE.

But three bare witness on earth ( as the Son of God came in the flesh which the antichrist cannot believe in nor confess, and therefore denies desperately.) The water and blood of Christ bears witness, as it is living, and the Spirit is what is living, and that is the three on earth that bare witness of the Son of God, the three agree in one as they are one Spirit. ( the Spirit/life is in the blood.)

Why receive the witness of men, THE WITNESS OF GOD IS GREATER.




1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.