NC bans gay marriage and the liberals flood facebook!

[differentDemocrat]

just read through NC's Amendment One and I do not understand why they decided to attach kids' healthcare in the bill?
unbelievable... just unbelievable that Christians could be responsible for punishing children. Up to 1 million children in NC now will not have healthcare coverage.

 

[stovebolts]

just read through NC's Amendment One and I do not understand why they decided to attach kids' healthcare in the bill?
unbelievable... just unbelievable that Christians could be responsible for punishing children. Up to 1 million children in NC now will not have healthcare coverage.

wow! was it some kind of an "earmark"? Why don't you post what your talking about.

Also, I take offence that you would say that "Christians could be responsible for punishing children". I know of a lot of people that are not Christians that don't support gay marriage. You're painting a canvas with a pretty large brush with that statement, and I don't think it's fair.

Wonder what the hells angels think of gay marriage... What do you think would happen if a gay person went into a biker bar? Do you think they'd just give that person a big hug or something?

 

[Milk-Drops]

So they passed a law prohibiting single parents, unmarried couples and children of same to see a doctor? Or to buy insurance?

This has to be an urban legend (not calling you a liar, just that this cannot be the truth. Can it?)

What the amendment does is take away programs that already exist and puts heavy restrictions to health insurance on unMaried parents and couples. This is what I was talking about earlier.

Oh stove, I think your justifications for being anti gay marriage just shows that you have massive emotional baggage to sort through. Controlling othe people's lives nomatt the excuse is not the answer that will help you.

 

[stovebolts]

Oh stove, I think your justifications for being anti gay marriage just shows that you have massive emotional baggage to sort through. Controlling othe people's lives nomatt the excuse is not the answer that will help you.

Well, if it matters to ya at all, I'm indiffernt to your opinion. Like I said, I'm not here to change your perception and if you want to go have sex with another person of the same sex, go ahead... and that you perform your own psychoanalysis upon me shows that you have some of your own baggage...

But what I will say, is I think it's better to raise a child with both parents, than with just one. And I think it's best if a husband and wife stick it out and make their marriage work. If you want to call that emotional baggage.. well, I'm speechless.

And what I find odd, is that you accuse me of trying to control other peoples lives, yet you don't even see how you are trying to control mine? I say that I have a right to raise my children with X values, and you say that I have to raise my children with your values. I think I'm calling a plank alert here.

You are more than free to voice your opinion and if a law passes that allows gay marriage, then that's something I'll have to live with. I'm certainly not going to berate somebody over it.

 

[stovebolts]

What the amendment does is take away programs that already exist and puts heavy restrictions to health insurance on unMaried parents and couples. This is what I was talking about earlier.

I'm going to have to read that amendment.

You know, I have a friend that makes about $65,000 a year, but back then he made around $50,000 and I can say he has a few toys. He's shacked up with a gal now for ohh.. maybe the past 8-10 years. She has two kids from a previous marriage and they are not married. They all live in his house. The kids have their own bedroom and she sleeps in his bed. But because she is considered at the poverty level, she gets a bridge card, subsidised day care and other social programs that help the poor. Oh yeah, she gets a whopper back from the federal government each year by way of earned income credit. Not bad for not being married.

This guy is a very good friend of mine. I'd dare to say a best friend. But he and his girlfriend have been taking advantage of entitlement programs for a long time.. and it's not right.

So, what I'd like to see is if the NC amendment isn't addressing abuses like this. Let me ask you, don't you think he should marry this girl and put both her and her kids on his medical insurance?

 

[Mike]

I believe it's fair to say we don't know how the divorce rate would compare between heterosexual and homosexual marriages if they had been permitted by law. We can't have those statistics in America. It will be a while before we can truly compare them, because in the short run, there will be a lot of pressure by the homosexual community for homosexuals to remain legally married.

I say this because I believe Jeff (Stove) had a very important point in another thread. Men are wired for physical gratification much more than women. In the model God gave us, they offset each other, but when men are permitted marriage by law, you will have two people who are more prone to seek the things men do. And that's not even taking into consideration the gay society and it's nature. Jeff if you're inclined, you could present this thought better than I'm doing it.

The writing's on the wall, folks, right? Christians can continue to vote against it, but it's just a matter of time. When the dust settles, and the pressure the gay community imposes on itself wears off, I do believe our society will see a marked increase in the gay divorce rate over that of the heterosexual rate.

 

[jasoncran]

I agree that the Church's response to homosexuality is inconsistent on a lot of levels.

My main thing about same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general is that it really isn't something that the Church should be all that concerned about.

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

If I'm filling out a ballot and it asks me to vote yay or nay on gay marriage, I'll vote nay, because I don't believe we need to redefine marriage. However, whether or not the state recognizes the relationship between two men as a legal union is really none of my business.

Now, as for when the Church begins to condone and recognize gay unions... now that's something we need to stand up about...

But the state? God will judge all of that.

so the church should be allowed not to hire gays?

where does that stop,dora. if they can get married then what? the church is exempt from labor laws on equality? if one lesbian is hired by the church and is married and has insurance then what? or what about chaplians in the service. they are going to be forced to marry or counsel gays to stay married in all likelyhood.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Well, if it matters to ya at all, I'm indiffernt to your opinion. Like I said, I'm not here to change your perception and if you want to go have sex with another person of the same sex, go ahead... and that you perform your own psychoanalysis upon me shows that you have some of your own baggage...

Lets step back for a minute because this is a heated topic and think Its better if we try and do this calmly. Sorry If I came off rash, but to be serious, this topic has been drug around for years and most of the only reasons Gay marriage is still an issue are emotional reasons. For instance you are assuming I'm gay just because I'm defending a gay topic. I was already asked if I was gay here and I said no. I defend these topics, like most other straight people who do, because I don't have the emotional ties to stand in the way of something I think is simple. That is it.

But what I will say, is I think it's better to raise a child with both parents, than with just one. And I think it's best if a husband and wife stick it out and make their marriage work. If you want to call that emotional baggage.. well, I'm speechless.

This is the point I was making. Gay marriage has nothing to do with raising children. I see your above statement as a shield so you don't have to answer any legit questions about why you are apposed to Gay marriage. Same sex adoption is an entirely different issue.

I called you out on emotional baggage purely because you want to stop gay people from being able to sign a contract because of problem they have nothing to do with. Simple as that. That is like beating up and refusing to feed a dog and blaming the dog for your own marriage problems when the dog had nothing to do with it.

And what I find odd, is that you accuse me of trying to control other peoples lives, yet you don't even see how you are trying to control mine? I say that I have a right to raise my children with X values, and you say that I have to raise my children with your values. I think I'm calling a plank alert here.

Back up, you are way off base here. I never said you have to raise children a certain way or teach them a specific value system. I'm challenging you because you are actively against people signing a contract that only would effect them. 2 people signing a contract dose not effect the values of your children.

You are more than free to voice your opinion and if a law passes that allows gay marriage, then that's something I'll have to live with. I'm certainly not going to berate somebody over it.

Yet you did just that in this thread by not being able to tell the difference between a marriage contract and raising children.

 

[jasoncran]

gotta love that idea marriage contract. i guess married uncle sam when signed up and now for life when retire. theres no getting out.gay marriages are already doomed with that mindset. love is a contractual agreement? let me tell my wife that ere i married her and see what she would have said. oh yeah you dont trust me?

so kids arent also contracts? make a child and DONT take of care oh him or her and see what your life in jail will be like.or as my gym owner who moves alot so that he can pay his child support or brother who lost his house rather then not spend time with his kids as he couldnt afford to do both.

the biological grandfather of this baby on the mothers side died never really knowing his kids. just died not that long ago and barely knew his kids and paid child support. so what two person do with a contract does indeed effect kids.

 

[Kidron]

see my Thread.

 

[eddif]

I agree that the Church's response to homosexuality is inconsistent on a lot of levels.

My main thing about same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general is that it really isn't something that the Church should be all that concerned about.

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

If I'm filling out a ballot and it asks me to vote yay or nay on gay marriage, I'll vote nay, because I don't believe we need to redefine marriage. However, whether or not the state recognizes the relationship between two men as a legal union is really none of my business.

Now, as for when the Church begins to condone and recognize gay unions... now that's something we need to stand up about...

But the state? God will judge all of that.

I have reasons the church should comment:
If you listen to national denominational meetings, gay marriage / gay rights / ordaining gays is always a subject of conversation.

If our local church is sent a gay pastor, all of a sudden the instructions for your life will probably have gay slants. How to raise your children will be slanted.

If you go in for counseling you probably will get an earfull.

Thus I think the church should be concerned.

God is the one who judges things as to right and wrong. If we go against those judgements we become a judge. If we agree with Gods judgement we are not a judge but just obedient. IMHO a gay / gay surporter is becoming a judge.

I absolutely want to just agree with God and not set myself up as a judge. I need to confess my sins and then pray for others.

eddif

 

[stovebolts]

Well, if it matters to ya at all, I'm indiffernt to your opinion. Like I said, I'm not here to change your perception and if you want to go have sex with another person of the same sex, go ahead... and that you perform your own psychoanalysis upon me shows that you have some of your own baggage...

Lets step back for a minute because this is a heated topic and think Its better if we try and do this calmly. Sorry If I came off rash, but to be serious, this topic has been drug around for years and most of the only reasons Gay marriage is still an issue are emotional reasons. For instance you are assuming I'm gay just because I'm defending a gay topic. I was already asked if I was gay here and I said no. I defend these topics, like most other straight people who do, because I don't have the emotional ties to stand in the way of something I think is simple. That is it.

Apology accepted. I would add that for me, I've not got a raise out of this discussion as this is not an emotional hot topic for me. I am secure and unwavering in my belief and I'm not dragging around years of arguing, defending etc. Like I said, you are free to think as you will. I am not out to change your mind.

Now then, I learned a long time ago to try and minimize the amount of assuming I do. If I wanted to know if you were gay or not, I would have asked. Honestly, I don't care if your gay or straight. My statement, "if you want to have sex with another person of the same sex, go ahead" was not an accusation. Simply put, it was my way of expressing that you have the choice to live that way if you so choose to. Again, I'm indifferent to your lifestyle.

But what I will say, is I think it's better to raise a child with both parents, than with just one. And I think it's best if a husband and wife stick it out and make their marriage work. If you want to call that emotional baggage.. well, I'm speechless.

This is the point I was making. Gay marriage has nothing to do with raising children. I see your above statement as a shield so you don't have to answer any legit questions about why you are apposed to Gay marriage. Same sex adoption is an entirely different issue.

I called you out on emotional baggage purely because you want to stop gay people from being able to sign a contract because of problem they have nothing to do with. Simple as that. That is like beating up and refusing to feed a dog and blaming the dog for your own marriage problems when the dog had nothing to do with it.

I don't see it as a shield. You have misunderstood me, or your just not reading what I wrote. What your missing, is that your issues are not my issues, yet you seem to think that I must address your issues. Simply put, I'm not obligated to oblige your issues. They are yours, you can work them out without me.

From my perspective, you "called me out" on emotional baggage because this is an emotional topic for you and I suspect I have hurt you with something I've said. For you, your at war with this topic, which is why you fight so hard for it. I am not at war with it. Not only am I not at war with this topic, I am secure in my belief and I'm not trying to change your view one iota.

Again, you assume what it is that motivates my thoughts and behavior. I would state that your perception and assumption is off by miles. BTW, what your talking about with the dog scenerio is called displaced anger. I can assure you, my anger is not displaced. As I stated earlier, I'm secure in my belief, and I'm not trying to change your belief one bit.

And what I find odd, is that you accuse me of trying to control other peoples lives, yet you don't even see how you are trying to control mine? I say that I have a right to raise my children with X values, and you say that I have to raise my children with your values. I think I'm calling a plank alert here.

Back up, you are way off base here. I never said you have to raise children a certain way or teach them a specific value system. I'm challenging you because you are actively against people signing a contract that only would effect them. 2 people signing a contract dose not effect the values of your children.

Am I way off base? I would suggest that you and I hold very different values. I have stated my reasons in previous posts. That you don't agree is one thing. But I don't think you even understand. What causes one to not understand? Generally an emotional outburst. I have nothing to gain by going to war with you over this.

You are more than free to voice your opinion and if a law passes that allows gay marriage, then that's something I'll have to live with. I'm certainly not going to berate somebody over it.

Yet you did just that in this thread by not being able to tell the difference between a marriage contract and raising children.

Me thinks you need to look up the word berate... and your conclusion is skewed.

I will end our little conversation with this. We are both American citizens and I won't be bullied, beaten or worn into submission over this topic. We both have the right to vote our conscience, and at the end of the day, that's what it all comes down to.

 

[Classik]

We only need to look back in history to observe this in the days of Jesus. Do you know what occured in Caesarea Philippi? One word.. Pan.

Is it a wonder that Socrates wrote how there is no love deeper than that love shared between two men. And is it a wonder how pedophiles were also considered "normal". And there is Corinth. Hey, what happens in Corinth, stays in Corinth right?

Ukulele!

Like you didn't understan what I was driving at, Stove?

Did you, Bolts?
I don't think so, StoveBolts

 

[Vic C.]

I have reasons the church should comment:
If you listen to national denominational meetings, gay marriage / gay rights / ordaining gays is always a subject of conversation.

If our local church is sent a gay pastor, all of a sudden the instructions for your life will probably have gay slants. How to raise your children will be slanted.

If you go in for counseling you probably will get an earfull.

Thus I think the church should be concerned.

God is the one who judges things as to right and wrong. If we go against those judgements we become a judge. If we agree with Gods judgement we are not a judge but just obedient. IMHO a gay / gay surporter is becoming a judge.

I absolutely want to just agree with God and not set myself up as a judge. I need to confess my sins and then pray for others.

eddif

I'm glad you bumped Dora's post. I agree overall with what she said, but wanted to point out that concern and judgement are two different issues.

We need to be concerned, very concerned, but we need not bee over-judgmental.

 

[stovebolts]

Ukulele!

Like you didn't understan what I was driving at, Stove?

Did you, Bolts?
I don't think so, StoveBolts

Well riddle me purple and tie be by my toes! Was that a phootbal?

 

[Classik]

Well riddle me purple and tie be by my toes! Was that a phootbal?

 

[differentDemocrat]

http://www.protectncfamilies.org/news/nc-pediatricians-announce-opposition-amendment-one

sorry about not posting a link to my bomb drop but, yes they hid dialogue within this law that will hurt a minimum of 1 million children in the state of NC (where I reside). My beloved niece and nephew will no longer be covered because, my sister recently divorced her alcoholic husband who was freeloading off her...

They had banners outside Charlotte churches urging people to vote for this... I am very disappointed not in my brothers in Christ but, the lawmakers who hid this from our people...

 

[elijah23]

Why is homosexual practice such a horrid sin, yet other commands regarding the law are "obsolete". Can someone explain the inconsistancy?

Homosexuality is a sin. It is hypocritical, though, when this sin is attacked, while other sins, such as fornication, are accepted.

 

[handy]

I have reasons the church should comment:
If you listen to national denominational meetings, gay marriage / gay rights / ordaining gays is always a subject of conversation.

If our local church is sent a gay pastor, all of a sudden the instructions for your life will probably have gay slants. How to raise your children will be slanted.

If you go in for counseling you probably will get an earfull.

Thus I think the church should be concerned.

God is the one who judges things as to right and wrong. If we go against those judgements we become a judge. If we agree with Gods judgement we are not a judge but just obedient. IMHO a gay / gay surporter is becoming a judge.

I absolutely want to just agree with God and not set myself up as a judge. I need to confess my sins and then pray for others.

eddif

Oh, when it comes to within the Church... Yes, yes, yes, we need to be active and working against this cancer that has crept in...

But, that is an in-family problem.

This is the problem with the Church lately... we stand up to judge the world and non-Christians and unbelievers about gay and lesbian rights, abortion rights, etc...

And then turn a blind eye to the fact that the Church has been allowing rank sin to stand within the congregations for years... I'm talking about things like divorce, bigotry, gossip, greed etc.

Listen, if we succeed in keeping Adam from marrying Steve yet do not effectively share the gospel with them, they are still destined for hell.
If we succeed in banning Alice from aborting her baby, and yet do not effectively share the gospel with her, she is still going to hell.

(And yelling "God Hates Fags" from street corners and waving placards in front of Planned Parenthood is NOT effectively sharing the gospel! Nor is voting against gay marriage. Nor is having a really, really cool rock band play on Sunday morning so we can show the world how hip we are.)

Jesus said to look upon the field, that it was ripe for harvest... We in the Church seem to think that He meant bulldoze over the field and build a cushy church building so that we Christians can be comfortable.

Actively working against the growing acceptence of homosexuality within the Church has nothing to do with whether or not gays and lesbians achieve the same legal status as hetrosexual couples.

But, far more are interested in working against same-sex marriage than standing strong and firm against denominations like the Epsicopalian and ELCA.

If we keep our own house clean, keep our own brothers and sisters held to God's standards and share the gospel of salvation from sins and God's love with unbelievers, many of these issues would be resolved...

But we don't. We want to stand in judgment when the World decides to allow gays and lesbians a legal status that hetros have had... and yet want to turn a blind eye to the vast amount of divorce and remarriage within the Church.

As Paul said, we are to judge each other within the Church. My husband and I had to judge our church by leaving it when the ELCA voted to ordain gays and lesbians.

But, we aren't the judges of the World. God judges the world, not us.

I'm not saying that Christians should vote to allow gay marriage... I certainly am never going to if presented with a vote. I'm saying that we need to clean our own house and stand firm against those who are leven within, rather than try to shout down those who are without.

 

[handy]

Homosexuality is a sin. It is hypocritical, though, when this sin is attacked, while other sins, such as fornication, are accepted.

EXACTLY!!!