Whether this was God's judgment or not...only He knows. I don't think that is really our concern. Our concern is to pray for these people and reach out to them as best as we can, even if that is just prayer for them. There were many survivors and they are going to be hurting for a long, long time. Who can they turn to for comfort and support? If all Christians stood back and wagged their fingers at them and said, "Well, this is what you get" then how would that help? I don't know. I just think love is the only answer.
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Pat Robertson's comment
- Thread starter Lewis
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Lewis
Member
I just wanted to show that what Pat said is documented, that's all. And it was, Pat did not make this up.
http://www.americandaily.com/article/95
http://www.americandaily.com/article/95
destiny
Member
When the God of the bible allows tragedy or executes judgment we don't know what to do with that God, so we make excuses for Him. He must have been looking away and that quake slipped by Him, surely He must have been out to lunch when that happened. 
The god of humanism that is taught in America is a lie.
The god of humanism that is taught in America is a lie.
GodspromisesRyes
Member
It is very sad that these days when our God does something in His righteous judgement and warning to the rest of the world that even alot of christians arent willing to see it :bigfrown
how many have more faith in " chance" or " natural disasters" or even " the devil" then in God. It seems like many just do not know who God is really they just like the lollipop god being preached all over who gives all good and never was the cause of the bad or "evil".
how many have more faith in " chance" or " natural disasters" or even " the devil" then in God. It seems like many just do not know who God is really they just like the lollipop god being preached all over who gives all good and never was the cause of the bad or "evil".
destiny
Member
In these last days people are going to have their eyes opened for them. God is loving and merciful, but He is also Holy and Just. Christians will have to come to terms with these things.GodspromisesRyes said:
And great earthquakes shall be in various places, and famines, and plagues; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. Luke 21:11
Pat Robertson did NOT say it was God's judgment. He told something that is Haitian history and true. So now Christians can't even tell some history without the people getting their noses out of joint over it? Listen to what Pat does say, not what you think he said because of a prejudice you have against him.
If you serve the devil, he will kill you if he can when he's done using you. Who knows if it is the judgment of God? If they, the Haitians are beginning to turn to God, maybe the devil that they had a pact with got angry about that and wanted to kill as many as he can before they turn to God. But like destiny said, God is not asleep and this quake did not slip by Him. The news reported that about the only things that survived destruction was the airport tower and the runway. Isn't that wonderful that the relief effort planes can get in there to help those people. Can someone say "the mercy of God".
GodspromisesRyes
Member
If we look at just the bible. Do we see God claiming things " just happened"? or Do we see God saying that " the devil did it"? Or do we see God taking credit for the things that happened?
Also when we look at the faithful people in the bible do we see them claim things " just happened" or claiming' the devil did it" or claiming God did it?
I think that when we base things on how they seem to us and not on what the bible actually shows we make a god in the form of men or beasts that tickle our ears and make us comfortable. But to believe in the God of the bible, who constantly takes credit for the things that happen then we have reason to actively fear him, to repent and to know when we do not repent that we deserve fully and more of what we recieve in judgement. We begin to understand the depths and blackness of the sinfullness of mankind without Christ so when these things happen we not only see that yes God did it to judge this nation or that because of sins, but that ALL men outside of Christ deserve the same and more so that repentance can be preached to them instead of taking away any conviction the actions of God bring by saying " o well God doesnt do that".
Also when we look at the faithful people in the bible do we see them claim things " just happened" or claiming' the devil did it" or claiming God did it?
I think that when we base things on how they seem to us and not on what the bible actually shows we make a god in the form of men or beasts that tickle our ears and make us comfortable. But to believe in the God of the bible, who constantly takes credit for the things that happen then we have reason to actively fear him, to repent and to know when we do not repent that we deserve fully and more of what we recieve in judgement. We begin to understand the depths and blackness of the sinfullness of mankind without Christ so when these things happen we not only see that yes God did it to judge this nation or that because of sins, but that ALL men outside of Christ deserve the same and more so that repentance can be preached to them instead of taking away any conviction the actions of God bring by saying " o well God doesnt do that".
GodspromisesRyes
Member
but where in the bible does it say that satan can cause earthquakes because He wants to kill people?Or where does it say that life and death are in the devils hands?Midgwy said:
Egypt served satan also and the destroyer(a demon) was used to kill the firstborn but the destroyer gets no credit for it, God takes credit. We dont ever see the bible giving credit to satan for events that happen. God is always saying I DID IT. I WILL DO IT.
Dude named Louis
Member
This is a devastating calamity. People are hurting, grieving, fighting for their lives. Did pointing out this historical pact with the devil advance the kingdom? I don't think it did, I think it hinders. What did it accomplish?
This is a time for us to minister to Haiti and show Christ-like love.
This is a time for us to minister to Haiti and show Christ-like love.
Sounds like someone needs to read the book of Job. God did not do all that to Job, Satan did. God is the one that put boundaries on how much damage he could do. Apostle Paul says now the devil goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. I don't believe God is the thief the bible is talking about there since the next statement is that Jesus came to give us life and more abundantly. Although I do believe Dod meets out punishments at times, so sometimes things are Gods judgments like what happened in Moses' day and sometimes it is the thief destroying what he can.
I will not get into a theological argument about this. I don't know if that was God's judgment or not what happened in Haiti. But I know that the Bible says that mercy triumphs over judgment. Right in the midst of judgment (if it is indeed judgment) there is God's mercy extended always strictly because Jesus is a propitiation for the sins of mankind and not for ours only, but for those of the whole world. But they have had nothing but curses in Haiti since they made that pact with the devil. The wages of sin is death. Death includes all the miseries that arise from sin.
Judgment of God or not, the mercy of God is extended because of what Jesus has done for man:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Drew
Member
As is almost always the case, bad theology leads to bad life decisions and / or improper interpretation of the events of life.
A text in Luke about "earthquakes" has been brought forward as being somehow connected to the events in Haiti. The text in question is this one:
There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
The problem with this is that proper contextual analysis shows that Jesus is referring to events that will take place in the first century, not the twenty-first.
Note what Jesus says at the beginning of the discourse in which the above statemenet appears:
Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6"As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down." 7"Teacher," they asked, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?"
The disciples are asking about the temple that they and Jesus were both looking at.
When was that temple destroyed?
70 AD.
Jesus is talking about the immediate future, not the distant future. Whatever the reason for the earthquake in Haiti, the Luke 21 text is about a different time and place.
A text in Luke about "earthquakes" has been brought forward as being somehow connected to the events in Haiti. The text in question is this one:
There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.
The problem with this is that proper contextual analysis shows that Jesus is referring to events that will take place in the first century, not the twenty-first.
Note what Jesus says at the beginning of the discourse in which the above statemenet appears:
Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6"As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down." 7"Teacher," they asked, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?"
The disciples are asking about the temple that they and Jesus were both looking at.
When was that temple destroyed?
70 AD.
Jesus is talking about the immediate future, not the distant future. Whatever the reason for the earthquake in Haiti, the Luke 21 text is about a different time and place.
R
Rick W
Guest
I don't believe calamities are punishment from God but rather man's choice to walk without Him allowing what comes to come. We were kicked out of the garden, separated from His protection through pride. So what comes, comes. We'll have to deal with it on our own because that's what we chose to do. 
Dude named Louis
Member
Why do we have to assign responsibility for this? Are we not in a fallen world where bad things happen? Little children die, godly men & women get cancer, people get killed in freak accidents. It can be a really crummy place at times.
Drew
Member
Agree. Genesis 3 tells us the "earth itself" is cursed because of the fall - the very fabric of creation has been damaged by the fall. Again, the proper theology takes us to the place you have come to in your post. In a world that is properly understood as being fallen in and of itself, questions of "responsibility" are simply not relevant.Dude named Louis said:
Lewis
Member
The thing is, nobody knows, what God did, but I will tell you this, nothing gets by Him, the tectonic plates were created by Him, to take pressure off of the earth, and they are under His control. So when it comes to the deaths of thousands of people, it will only happen if He allows it. The earth talks to Him, He knows everything about it. The richter scale did not pick it up, but God did. So He allowed it for a reason. He knew there would be innocent babies killed, but He allowed it. Why I do not know. And then on the other hand, it could have been a direct hit, by God, we just don't know.
Today I overheard a woman talking about the financial aid America is sending to Haiti. The woman said, "I don't think we should be helping those people. You heard what Pat Robertson said..."
So this is the message we are to receive? As a call to ignore the suffering in Haiti because of the evil in their land?
I wanted to ask this lady: If you had a neighbor across the street, let's say they were a satanic couple with five children. If a tornado hit their house and it collapsed on the couple and their children, would you stand idly by? Would you spend your time making judgment calls on the family? Or would you run across the street and start digging through the debris to free the family? This is the perfect opportunity to show Christ's love!
What kind of witness is it to say, "I don't think we should help those people. They made a pact with the devil..." Those children and average families over there crushed in the rubble didn't make that pact.
Haitians need our help. They need our prayers. They need our witness.
So this is the message we are to receive? As a call to ignore the suffering in Haiti because of the evil in their land?
I wanted to ask this lady: If you had a neighbor across the street, let's say they were a satanic couple with five children. If a tornado hit their house and it collapsed on the couple and their children, would you stand idly by? Would you spend your time making judgment calls on the family? Or would you run across the street and start digging through the debris to free the family? This is the perfect opportunity to show Christ's love!
What kind of witness is it to say, "I don't think we should help those people. They made a pact with the devil..." Those children and average families over there crushed in the rubble didn't make that pact.
Haitians need our help. They need our prayers. They need our witness.
