Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Pat Robertson's comment
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
ronniechoate34
Member
Lewis W said:
After actually hearing that and getting an idea of what all of this fuss over Pat Robertson is about I can only say that I'm astounded. I can't believe that people are upset over this. People have gone absolutely insane.
ronniechoate34
Member
Midgwy said:
Re:1:18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
See?
ronniechoate34
Member
JoJo said:
They need people to help them get to the Lord Jesus Christ. People who will point the way and walk with them so they don't have to go alone. Many of them are broken now and nigh to repentance to the Lord Jesus Christ. And the children also are a precious commodity because many are orphans and no longer have anyone to shield them from the Lord Jesus Christ with their sorcery and such.
Pray that they receive not only comfort, but the comforter. It's terrible what has been done there.
ronniechoate34
Member
jasoncran said:
There are many atheist and secular people who want to help these guys out.
Biblesurveyor
Member
Here is a short commentary with links to sites where a person may help out. Also, Joel Rosenberg is a Christian author whom I have great respect for, and I think he puts a very important perspective on the events in Haiti.
http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2 ... oportions/
http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2 ... oportions/
GodspromisesRyes
Member
Just because there is a judgement from God, does not mean that we should hold back our help to them, but instead we should deliver to them now the mercy of God along with the message of repentance and faith in Christ Jesus. Those who would withhold help have forgotten that they were also once children of wrath under the judgement of God and God had mercy upon them.
As far as Job goes, satan did the action but He did so on Gods word and Job knew that and gave God the credit. Job said shall we recieve good at the hand of God and not also evil. We are told in romans that there is no power but of God. Tribulations and trials and persecutions are Gods purpose for the good of His people- which job was. Isaiah tells us exactly where calamity comes from
Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. (evil here lit. is calamity)
Besides all that, the reason that it matters if it is God or just happen stance, is because if a person believes it is happen stance then they can say "o woe is me, i am so good and dont deserve this" then that can continue in their sins feeling justified in themselves but if the truth That all is in the hands of God is what is spoken that they can be brought to repentance through a fear of God and an acknowledgement of sins and faith in Christ Jesus.
This is a good example actually of what happened here at 9-11. At first even the t.v. was calling americans to pray( the same america that says seperation of church and state) churches were calling for repentance of this nation and prayer, humbling ourselves before God. But very soon after the government slipped in with words of how we are all innocent here and we need to focus ont he bad terrorists who did this and go get them and rebuild bigger and better and show them who this great nation is. Pride came in and decided that this nation is so great there is no need for prayer and repentance that God didnt do this event to warn us- that we just need to focus on the greatness of this country and the evilness of those people over there. And again today the nation is going deeper and deper into sins with no talk of repentnace widley.
As far as Job goes, satan did the action but He did so on Gods word and Job knew that and gave God the credit. Job said shall we recieve good at the hand of God and not also evil. We are told in romans that there is no power but of God. Tribulations and trials and persecutions are Gods purpose for the good of His people- which job was. Isaiah tells us exactly where calamity comes from
Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. (evil here lit. is calamity)
Besides all that, the reason that it matters if it is God or just happen stance, is because if a person believes it is happen stance then they can say "o woe is me, i am so good and dont deserve this" then that can continue in their sins feeling justified in themselves but if the truth That all is in the hands of God is what is spoken that they can be brought to repentance through a fear of God and an acknowledgement of sins and faith in Christ Jesus.
This is a good example actually of what happened here at 9-11. At first even the t.v. was calling americans to pray( the same america that says seperation of church and state) churches were calling for repentance of this nation and prayer, humbling ourselves before God. But very soon after the government slipped in with words of how we are all innocent here and we need to focus ont he bad terrorists who did this and go get them and rebuild bigger and better and show them who this great nation is. Pride came in and decided that this nation is so great there is no need for prayer and repentance that God didnt do this event to warn us- that we just need to focus on the greatness of this country and the evilness of those people over there. And again today the nation is going deeper and deper into sins with no talk of repentnace widley.
Dude named Louis
Member
GodspromisesRyes said:
How can any of us know that this is a judgment from God? What nation on earth has not turned away from God and deserves His wrath? Should we say every disaster is a judgment from God then?
All I can be sure of is that regardless of the situation we are called to trust in the Lord.
James 1:2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.
I can't know that this was God's judgment, so it does not matter to me whether it was or whether it was a product of the nature of our fallen world.
G
GojuBrian
Guest
JoJo said:
Buddist.
Caroline H
Member
Hypercalvinism can as well.
ronniechoate34
Member
ronniechoate34
Member
Wait. I am still looking but I am not having any luck. In fact I need to read more about this before I say anything.
ronniechoate34
Member
I couldn't find anything to back that up so I am not gonna post it again. Sorry for that.
I did find something else that I found interesting though and I will post that.
The mid-1980s marked a profound change in the church's stance on issues related to peasants and the urban poor. Reflecting this change was the statement by Pope John Paul II, during a visit to Haiti in 1983, that "Things must change here". Galvanized by the Vatican's concern, Roman Catholic clergy and lay workers called for improved human rights. Lay workers helped develop a peasant-community movement, especially at a center in the Plateau Central. The Roman Catholic radio station, Radio Soleil, played a key role in disseminating news about government actions during the 1985-86 crisis and encouraging opponents of the Duvalier government. The bishops, particularly in Jérémie and Cap-Haïtien, actively denounced Duvalierist repression and human-rights violations.
In the aftermath of Jean-Claude Duvalier's departure, the church took a less active role in Haiti's politics. The church hierarchy strongly supported the suppressed 1987 Constitution, which granted official status to Creole and guaranteed basic human rights, including the right to practice voodoo. The alliance with the lower classes left the Catholic Church with two unresolved problems in the late 1980s: its uneasy relationship with voodoo and its relationship to the more radical elements of the political movement that it had supported.
http://countrystudies.us/haiti/34.htm
I have a question. Are we supposed to believe that the Roman Catholic Church didn't know what she was doing?
I did find something else that I found interesting though and I will post that.
The mid-1980s marked a profound change in the church's stance on issues related to peasants and the urban poor. Reflecting this change was the statement by Pope John Paul II, during a visit to Haiti in 1983, that "Things must change here". Galvanized by the Vatican's concern, Roman Catholic clergy and lay workers called for improved human rights. Lay workers helped develop a peasant-community movement, especially at a center in the Plateau Central. The Roman Catholic radio station, Radio Soleil, played a key role in disseminating news about government actions during the 1985-86 crisis and encouraging opponents of the Duvalier government. The bishops, particularly in Jérémie and Cap-Haïtien, actively denounced Duvalierist repression and human-rights violations.
In the aftermath of Jean-Claude Duvalier's departure, the church took a less active role in Haiti's politics. The church hierarchy strongly supported the suppressed 1987 Constitution, which granted official status to Creole and guaranteed basic human rights, including the right to practice voodoo. The alliance with the lower classes left the Catholic Church with two unresolved problems in the late 1980s: its uneasy relationship with voodoo and its relationship to the more radical elements of the political movement that it had supported.
http://countrystudies.us/haiti/34.htm
I have a question. Are we supposed to believe that the Roman Catholic Church didn't know what she was doing?
handy
Member
...Even so, the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak...
So, all this about Haiti and pacts with the devil and whether or not a natural disaster can just be a natural disaster or if it's always a judgment of God's...
What Robertson said was true enough. And, I don't fault him for saying it, especially since he stressed (even if those reporting what he said didn't stress that he stressed) that we need to help them in their "unimaginable" suffering (Robertson's words).
I read and re-read Robertson's comments and not once did I see where he stated that this earthquake was a judgment of God's. What I see, and what I think Robertson was pointing out, is that Haiti does not enjoy God's blessings. And, they don't. But, God not blessing a nation isn't the same as deliberately sending an earthquake to punish the nation.
Here is a thought for those who want to believe that this earthquake was sent specifically by God, to punish the Haitian people: This earthquake is the same magnitude as the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake which hit San Fransisco so hard. In that earthquake, only 69 people died, and while there was widespread damage, the damage was nowhere near as extensive as this Haitian earthquake. We're talking San Fransisco here. So, God blesses San Fransisco and punishes Haiti? Does anyone want to say that the people of San Fransisco are more godly than the people of Haiti?
I quoted 1 Corinthians 2:11-12 above because it makes it clear that we don't know the mind of God. No knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. What we have received is not the mind of God, but rather the mind of Christ (vs 16) and what the Spirit freely gives us. The mind of Christ is that we should love our neighbors as well as our enemies. So, whether the Haitians are neighbors or enemies or both, we need to love them with the love of Christ. We have also received things freely given to us by God, which is the gospel and worldly blessings, both of which the Haitian people are in desperate need of.
So, rather than wondering whether or not God is punishing Haiti, I think we need to do whatever we possibly can to help the Haitian people, both spiritually by praying for them that they fully receive the gospel and materially by sending whatever we can to help them out. Let God worry about whether or not He is judging them. We have our instructions from God, which is to not judge, but to love.
So, all this about Haiti and pacts with the devil and whether or not a natural disaster can just be a natural disaster or if it's always a judgment of God's...
What Robertson said was true enough. And, I don't fault him for saying it, especially since he stressed (even if those reporting what he said didn't stress that he stressed) that we need to help them in their "unimaginable" suffering (Robertson's words).
I read and re-read Robertson's comments and not once did I see where he stated that this earthquake was a judgment of God's. What I see, and what I think Robertson was pointing out, is that Haiti does not enjoy God's blessings. And, they don't. But, God not blessing a nation isn't the same as deliberately sending an earthquake to punish the nation.
Here is a thought for those who want to believe that this earthquake was sent specifically by God, to punish the Haitian people: This earthquake is the same magnitude as the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake which hit San Fransisco so hard. In that earthquake, only 69 people died, and while there was widespread damage, the damage was nowhere near as extensive as this Haitian earthquake. We're talking San Fransisco here. So, God blesses San Fransisco and punishes Haiti? Does anyone want to say that the people of San Fransisco are more godly than the people of Haiti?
I quoted 1 Corinthians 2:11-12 above because it makes it clear that we don't know the mind of God. No knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. What we have received is not the mind of God, but rather the mind of Christ (vs 16) and what the Spirit freely gives us. The mind of Christ is that we should love our neighbors as well as our enemies. So, whether the Haitians are neighbors or enemies or both, we need to love them with the love of Christ. We have also received things freely given to us by God, which is the gospel and worldly blessings, both of which the Haitian people are in desperate need of.
So, rather than wondering whether or not God is punishing Haiti, I think we need to do whatever we possibly can to help the Haitian people, both spiritually by praying for them that they fully receive the gospel and materially by sending whatever we can to help them out. Let God worry about whether or not He is judging them. We have our instructions from God, which is to not judge, but to love.
Dude named Louis
Member
handy said:
This is great, what we should be focusing on IMO.
I agree that P. Robertson did not say it was God's judgment, I just think the timing was not great to point out what he did because there are plenty who connect the dots between what he was saying to making the leap that it was God's judgment (as can be testified on this thread as well as by disbelievers). I'll give an analog from my own life—I had melanoma several years back. It's a deadly form of cancer if not caught in time. It was naturally of great concern to me as I had to have a couple of excisions and was feeling very vulnerable at the time. Most of my friends were very encouraging but one woman at my church very caustically said to me "Gee, don't you wear sunscreen"? The last thing I wanted to think about at that moment was whether I had caused this to happen—it wasn't time for such a remark, whether it be true or not. The truth is, it didn't matter at that point—some people get melanoma, some don't. It was not particularly helpful at that time.
So I really take issue more with those who claim to know that this was God's judgment than with Robertson. For him I think it was just not good timing for the statement.