Postmillenialism is the Only Optimistic View Of End Times

[Iconoclast]

Every end time view declares that on the last day we win and are victorious In Christ.

The Postmillennial truth is the only view, that looks for an ultimate victory in this world as the gospel of the Kingdom spreads worldwide.

The gospel is wider than individual salvation.

 

[hawkman]

Every end time view declares that on the last day we win and are victorious In Christ.

Are not all Christians already now victorious in Christ ?

In fact we are beyond victorious we are More than conquerors !

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

I always thought Pre-Trib rapture was an optimistic view of end times .

 

[jasonc]

Every end time view declares that on the last day we win and are victorious In Christ.

The Postmillennial truth is the only view, that looks for an ultimate victory in this world as the gospel of the Kingdom spreads worldwide.

The gospel is wider than individual salvation.

You might want to read what amil says and classic premil .

 

[Iconoclast]

Are not all Christians already now victorious in Christ ?

In fact we are beyond victorious we are More than conquerors !

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

I always thought Pre-Trib rapture was an optimistic view of end times .

The pretrib view says things get worse and worse until we are raptured out of here.Then there are those who are left behind facing wrath.

 

[Iconoclast]

You might want to read what amil says and classic premil .

Amill says things get better??
Name an amill person who says that! I have them on my bookshelf

 

[hawkman]

The pretrib view says things get worse and worse

Are they getting worse and worse ?

 

[Iconoclast]

Are they getting worse and worse ?

I think things are on a slow steady upswing. The gospel is spreading worldwide.

 

[jasonc]

Amill says things get better??
Name an amill person who says that! I have them on my bookshelf

You believe that the world will will be full of bellievers souch that christ won't hand to judge man at all ?
That the world will want Jesus so much that the world will pass laws that end sin?

My pastor like me is amil ,the end times teacher is amil . They all say only Jesus will be the one to end sin.

Look I'm sold enough to remember blue laws .no work was done on Sunday ,not many restaurants open and no liquor sold or grocery stores open and the mall was closed irc.

That was in the 80s locally.

Yet sin happened .

 

[Iconoclast]

You believe that the world will will be full of bellievers souch that christ won't hand to judge man at all ?

No. Sinners are always here.

That the world will want Jesus so much that the world will pass laws that end sin?

You cannot pass laws that will end sin. Godly laws would help however. No abortions, no sodomite marriage, capital punishment for murderers.

My pastor like me is amil ,the end times teacher is amil . They all say only Jesus will be the one to end sin.

Amill is like a cousin to postmill, just do not go far enough.

Look I'm sold enough to remember blue laws .no work was done on Sunday ,not many restaurants open and no liquor sold or grocery stores open and the mall was closed irc.

That was in the 80s locally.

They knew to keep the Lords day.

Yet sin happened .

Sin happens until we are glorified.

 

[Iconoclast]

HERE is the Aquila report offering food for thought;

How Israel’s Hymns Prove Postmillennialism​

Our Forefathers' Rugged, Unapologetic Faith​

Written by Kendall Lankford | Saturday, March 23, 2024
Our engagement with the Psalms demands a response. It’s not enough to nod in agreement and carry on as before. If your heart and hymnbook are full of defeat and despair, it’s high time for a reformation. We need to ditch the weak-kneed theology that has infiltrated our ranks and put on the whole armor of God, ready to fight the good fight with the confidence of those already on the winning side. Remember, the Psalms don’t call us to a passive, defeated life, waiting for the end times. They call us to action, dominion, to take up the mantle of our King and push forward His Kingdom here on earth, as it is in heaven.

If you want to learn what a culture values, and if you’re going to understand the worldview that underpins a nation, then you must look no further than their songs. No matter what the whompy jawed ideologues say behind fake smiles and teleprompters, and no matter what manufactured narratives are peddled by the bobbleheaded pundits in the fake news media, the hopes and dreams of a people will be found most clearly stated in their anthems, ballads, and refrains. If you want to know what a society believes in, where their hopes lie, what they think about the purpose of life, and why we are all here, then pay attention to the lyrics and hymns they produce. It will be telling.
For instance, let’s say that I have been living under a rock for a few decades, and somehow, I end up washing up on the shores of this strange land called the USA. If I wanted to figure out who these people are and what things they value, I might look up their ten most popular songs for that year. If I did that, I would find out that these people believe our purpose in life is to engage in womanizing, emasculation, promiscuous and filthy sex, getting drunk, doing drugs, and being a thoroughgoing moral degenerate. But it’s all good, as long as we have a good time, right? That is the attitude our songs are celebrating. While I wish I could say that I am being hyperbolic, I read through the lyrics of the ten most popular songs right now, and if anything, I am being excessively modest. That is the discordant melody and the seedy song we are singing about who we are. And based on our cultural anthems, we are not only a very sick and disgusting people, but we are unashamedly proud of it.
However, this was not the case in ancient Israel, whose hymn book tells a much different story about who they were and what they valued as a society. Amid the hundred and fifty songs that we have preserved in our canon, we can see themes of trust, praise, and worship of Yahweh, lament, and suffering in times of struggle, repentance and confession, thanksgiving, His love, and covenantal faithfulness to His people, as well as His sovereignty and Kingship over all things. In fact, one of the most prominent themes in the book of Psalms is how God is going to take a sin-laden world that was handed down to us in Adam and, through His Son, establish a Kingdom that fills the world with worshippers, which ties in perfectly with the themes that we have been talking about so far.
If you are new to the party, we are in a series called a practical postmillennialism, where we have been talking about what postmillennialism is. We have been arguing that postmillennialism is the story of how God will fill the world with worshippers before the curtains close on this old world. This is the promise He made to Adam in the garden before He sinned (Genesis 1:28). This is the promise God repeated to Noah after sin (Genesis 9:1). It is the hope that Abraham’s line will bless every family on earth (Genesis 12:3) and every nation on earth (Genesis 18:18). And it is the promise that humans will never be able to do this on their own, because we are all like Adam, so a messianic Shiloh will come and bring obedience and worship to all the nations (Genesis 49:10), filling them with worshippers. We have seen that Jesus will take the promises given to all those men in Genesis and accomplish them as the true and better Adam.
Last week, we saw how those world-filling promises are not only contained within the book of Genesis but spill out into the pages of the Exodus, or in the law found in Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, or in the conquests narratives of Joshua, and in the lead up to and all throughout the era of the kings from Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, and 1 and 2 Chronicles. We saw that these cosmic promises that were given by God would be fulfilled. God would not abandon His plan. And before the last grain of sand falls through the hourglass of time, God will have filled the world with worshippers through His one and only Son, Jesus. These are His promises, and He is going to fulfill them.
Now today, we will see how the book of Psalms takes these glorious themes and sings them back to us, even shouting them at us like a metal concert with loud crashing symbols going off in the background so that we would have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to miss the throbbing chorus. Today, as we move out of the history of Israel’s kings and move into the poetry and songs of Israel, we will see how the hymnbook of God’s people echoes the promise of a better King, a ferocious King, who will put all of His enemies underneath His feet so that He can fill the world with worshippers as God has promised.

​

 

[Iconoclast]

pt2;

A Song of Crushing Enemies​

As men have become increasingly emasculated in our culture and radical feminism has run through our societal veins like rat poison, the widespread view of Jesus has shifted away from the warrior priest-king to the humble, loveable wuss. If that stings, it is because it is true. In art and movies, we shamefully depict Him with long flowing hair, soft, supple skin, and longing eyes, looking like a woman with a well-manicured beard. In popular evanjellyfish music, Jesus has become the emotional boyfriend in the sky, to whom we belt out all our emotive mantric babblings, so He will wrap us up in warm worshipful hugs. This is ironic because the songs we see concerning Him in Scripture are masculine and ferocious, and they focus not only on His affections but also His wrath against the wicked.
No matter how sappily evangelicalism has painted the Lion of Judah, and no matter how loud they roar that we lose down here, the softening of this King and the defeat of His people does not work in the Psalms. He is not a mere savior of souls working for a Kingdom filled with harp-playing, toga-wearing cloud riders. This prevailing notion suggests that the church’s role is essentially to crash and burn in this lifetime, to retreat from the world like cowards in anticipation of a heavenly reward, sidelining the Kingdom’s advancement on earth. Many argue that Jesus is not actively building His Kingdom on this earth because He is focused entirely on spiritual things. However, this image starkly contrasts with the robust, authoritative Messiah depicted in the Psalms.
In these God-breathed hymns, Jesus is not depicted as a distant, passive figure; instead, He emerges as a mighty warrior, a king not only concerned with the afterlife but vigorously involved in the here and now, establishing His rule, authority, and dominion across the globe. And there will be setbacks. There will be enemies who rise up and pop off at the mouth. The Scriptures are not silent about those moments. But, they are also not quiet about the Messiah standing as the indomitable General leading the charge against the hordes of hell until every single enemy of God has been crushed under King Jesus’ feet. In that sense, the Psalms aren’t just songs; they are war cries, declarations of victory by a King who will bring utter devastation and ruin upon His enemies.
Take Psalm 2 and Psalm 110 for example. These aren’t gentle whispers of a far-off distant hope; they are booming thunderclaps of God’s immutable promise.
Psalm 2:7-12 says:

“I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will surely give the nations as your inheritance, and the very ends of the earth as your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; you shall shatter them like earthenware.’ Now therefore, O kings, show discernment; take warning, O judges of the earth. Worship the Lord with reverence and rejoice with trembling. Do homage to the Son, that he not become angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in him!” – Psalm 2:7-12

Although David wrote this song, He is not talking about himself. He is an outsider to this scene. He is nothing more than a privileged spectator who returns and reports all He heard and beheld within the Godhead. He is writing a song about a conversation God the Father and God the Son are having with one another. A song where the Father will bring His Son to this earth as His only begotten Son. A song where the Father will give His Son all of the rebel nations on earth as the inheritance for His obedience. And, after assuming His global dominion (alluded to in Matthew 28:18), He will begin the process of overthrowing all of the sedition on earth, breaking into pieces all of those who are in ongoing insurrection against God.
Because of Jesus’ incarnation, death, resurrection, and ascension, He will rule over the nations of this earth with a rod of iron and shatter all of His Father’s rebels like pottery shards. This is why the world’s kings are told to be wise and take this warning very seriously. They are not told to repent in terror because Jesus is building a Kingdom that loses down here and has no impact down here. No! They should be terrified because if they do not turn from their evil in order to worship the Messiah King on this earth and pay homage to Him in His rule on this planet, then He will overthrow them here, displace them here, and bury them here in His righteous wrath.
God the Father is promising that Jesus will win down here, rule down here, and crush everyone who opposes Him down here. That is a far different tune than what we are used to hearing in modern Christianity. But, alas, there it is in the text. We see that this Messiah doesn’t come as a passive observer of world history but as the relentless conqueror of it. He is the one who claims every inch of this earth as His rightful domain because He won it as His inheritance on the cross.

​

 

[Alfred Persson]

Every end time view declares that on the last day we win and are victorious In Christ.

The Postmillennial truth is the only view, that looks for an ultimate victory in this world as the gospel of the Kingdom spreads worldwide.

The gospel is wider than individual salvation.

What events today support postmillennialism? In this time of increasing war, crime, apostasy....what indicates the gospel of Christ will conquer the earth by the hand of the church?

 

[Iconoclast]

What events today support postmillennialism?

The continued spread of the gospel worldwide. Keep in mind we do not look to newspaper headlines to determine the biblical view.

In this time of increasing war, crime, apostasy....what indicates the gospel of Christ will conquer the earth by the hand of the church?

The scriptures tell us exactly what will happen, like here;
psalm22:
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The continued spread of the gospel worldwide. Keep in mind we do not look to newspaper headlines to determine the biblical view.

The scriptures tell us exactly what will happen, like here;
psalm22:
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

If all that is correct, why did Jesus ask:

When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? (Lk. 18:8 KJV)

 

[Iconoclast]

If all that is correct, why did Jesus ask:

When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? (Lk. 18:8 KJV)

The first part of psalm 22 was certainly correct. we can trust the last part is happening just as written.

Jesus asks this rhetorical question seeking for these people to examine themselves. He is not perplexed and thinking God's eternal plan will not take place. He is calling them to step up and live by faith.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Every end time view declares that on the last day we win and are victorious In Christ.

The Postmillennial truth is the only view, that looks for an ultimate victory in this world as the gospel of the Kingdom spreads worldwide.

The gospel is wider than individual salvation.

False dominion theology, utopia illusion, elevation of church institution and human capability, spiritualization of kingdom prophecy, putting the Lord's physical and bodily return contingent upon earthly works, overlooking God's own schedule.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The first part of psalm 22 was certainly correct. we can trust the last part is happening just as written.

Jesus asks this rhetorical question seeking for these people to examine themselves. He is not perplexed and thinking God's eternal plan will not take place. He is calling them to step up and live by faith.

Of course Jesus is not perplexed. Unexplained is how Jesus could ask this question if He were postmillennialist? The premise of the question contradicts the conclusion of faith triumphant everywhere.

 

[Randy]

Every end time view declares that on the last day we win and are victorious In Christ.

The Postmillennial truth is the only view, that looks for an ultimate victory in this world as the gospel of the Kingdom spreads worldwide.

The gospel is wider than individual salvation.

I read the beast will make war with the saints, (those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus).
I read the reign of the beast is 42 months.
I read the beast is not destroyed by human power but by a coming of the Lord.
I read in regard to the 1st resurrection they will come to life and reign with the Lord for a 1000 years.
I read during that 1000 years satan and his angels are bound so as to not lead the world astray during those years.

My outlook is premil and post trib. That is Jesus ends tribulation at His coming and pronounces judgment in favor of the saints.

 

[Iconoclast]

False dominion theology,

Taught in scripture, not at all false.

utopia illusion,

No, psalm 22;
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

elevation of church institution and human capability

It is the church obeying and serving God, here and now.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,

, spiritualization of kingdom prophecy,

No, actual fulfillment of prophecy...All authority has been given unto Jesus, he sends us into the world
Mt.28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,

putting the Lord's physical and bodily return contingent upon earthly works,

God has ordained the good works Eph2:10

overlooking God's own schedule.

Some people believe what the scripture says on this; Psa.72
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.

11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

 

[Iconoclast]

I read the beast will make war with the saints, (those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus).
I read the reign of the beast is 42 months.
I read the beast is not destroyed by human power but by a coming of the Lord.
I read in regard to the 1st resurrection they will come to life and reign with the Lord for a 1000 years.
I read during that 1000 years satan and his angels are bound so as to not lead the world astray during those years.

My outlook is premil and post trib. That is Jesus ends tribulation at His coming and pronounces judgment in favor of the saints.

What verses are you making reference to?Looks like you are piecing random verses together.offer your references