Reconsidering Daniel 12:6-7

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Daniel 12 contains a very interesting Q&A.

v6 (Question) "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?"
v7 (Answer) "it shall be for a time, times, and an half;"

If you've been around (Sunday school) for a while that phrase, 'time, times, and an half' would probably sound familiar.
That's because a similar phrase is also found in Daniel 7:25 (a time and times and the dividing of time.) and in Revelation 12:14 (a time, and times, and half a time).

For brevities sake, I will not give an exhaustive explanation here. But that phrase, in all of it's forms, has come to be understood as meaning a three and a half (3.5) year period of time.

Time = 1
Times = 2
Half = .5
Total = 3.5

It's worth your time to revisit the surrounding text of each of those verses.

It is generally understood that these 3.5 years are the amount of time between the abomination of desolation (at the middle of the Tribulation) and the second coming of Christ. In context, I agree. That is a reasonable explanation for the phrase in Daniel 7:25 and in Revelation 12:14. However, in context, it is not a reasonable explanation for the phrase in Daniel 12:7.

When we take a closer look at the question, and the discussion that leads up to the question, we find that a 3.5 year period of time cannot be a reasonable explanation.

The question is certainly soliciting a time-based response. But there are no specific parameters given that even imply the abomination of desolation, the second coming of Christ, or even the Tribulation. In fact, it's asking for the amount of time until the 'end of these wonders'. So, what was the last 'wonder' that was given?

Daniel 12:2-3 contain the last event given.
"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

There is only one event given in scripture, where the dead are 'awaken' to 'shame and everlasting contempt'. That event is called the 'great white throne judgement' and it's found in Revelation 20:11-15.

It's relevant to note, that the messianic prophecy that began in Genesis 3:15, is finished in Revelation 20:15.

So the question in Daniel 12:6 is actually asking how long it will be until the end of the great white throne judgement.

Thus, the answer cannot be 3.5 years.

If we look at the prophecies from Daniel's time until the 'end of these wonders', we find that there are three large time-based prophecies.

Daniel 9:24-26 is the '70 weeks' prophecy
Hosea 5:15-6:2 is the 'after two-days' prophecy
and Revelation 20:1-10 is the reign of Christ prophecy

Time = the 1,000 year reign of Christ
Times = the 2,000 years from Christ's ascension to the Tribulation
Half = the '70 weeks' prophecy which is 490 years.

There's also a short time between the second coming of Christ and the beginning of His thousand-year reign, and a 'little season' that Satan will be released to deceive the nations.

In conclusion, the answer given in Daniel 12:7, "it shall be for a time, times, and an half;" means 3,500 years.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Jarhead4Jesus,

If you've been around (Sunday school) for a while that phrase, 'time, times, and an half' would probably sound familiar.
That's because a similar phrase is also found in Daniel 7:25 (a time and times and the dividing of time.) and in Revelation 12:14 (a time, and times, and half a time).
For brevities sake, I will not give an exhaustive explanation here. But that phrase, in all of it's forms, has come to be understood as meaning a three and a half (3.5) year period of time.

To be brief, I agree that these time periods add up to 3.5 years, and on the day for a year principle this represents 1260 years in each prophecy. I understand that this period of time in Daniel 7 speaks of the supremacy of the RCC and its persecution of the faithful during that period. I have a tentative view of the three time periods in Daniel 12, 1260, 1290, 1335 but will withhold my opinion at this time and here.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JT4444]

Greetings Jarhead4Jesus,

To be brief, I agree that these time periods add up to 3.5 years, and on the day for a year principle this represents 1260 years in each prophecy. I understand that this period of time in Daniel 7 speaks of the supremacy of the RCC and its persecution of the faithful during that period. I have a tentative view of the three time periods in Daniel 12, 1260, 1290, 1335 but will withhold my opinion at this time and here.

Kind regards
Trevor

Scripture does not tell us to assume that every mention of the word "day" really refers to a year. There is nothing in Daniel that tells us that 1,260 days are actually 1,260 years.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings JT4444,

Scripture does not tell us to assume that every mention of the word "day" really refers to a year. There is nothing in Daniel that tells us that 1,260 days are actually 1,260 years.

Each occurrence must be considered carefully in its context and I consider that the time periods of Daniel 7, 8 and 12 are to be understood on the day for a year principle. Even in Daniel 7 which does not specifically state 1260 days, I equate times, time and a half to add up to 1260 days and I interpret this to be the 1260 years that the RCC had dominance and persecuted the faithful:
Daniel 7:19–27 (KJV): 19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; 20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

I understand that the Fourth Beast is the Roman Empire and Daniel 7 is parallel to Daniel 2, but gives some detail of the rise of the Papacy and the persecution of the saints. I understand the two applications of the 1260 days as depicting the rise and decline of the RCC from Justinian in AD 529-533 to the French Revolution AD 1789-1793 and from the Decree of Phocas in AD 610 to AD 1870 when the Papacy lost sovereignty over the Papal States and suffered severely at that time.

The time period must fit in with the overall context of the details of the Roman Empire from its inception to the coming of Jesus and the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth. I also consider the 2300 days of Daniel 8 to represent from BC 334-333 to AD 1967, the retaking of Jerusalem by the Jews in the Six Day War (much quicker than the present conflict). This time period is also very fitting in it's overall context.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JT4444]

Greetings JT4444,

Each occurrence must be considered carefully in its context and I consider that the time periods of Daniel 7, 8 and 12 are to be understood on the day for a year principle. Even in Daniel 7 which does not specifically state 1260 days, I equate times, time and a half to add up to 1260 days and I interpret this to be the 1260 years that the RCC had dominance and persecuted the faithful:
Daniel 7:19–27 (KJV): 19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; 20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

I understand that the Fourth Beast is the Roman Empire and Daniel 7 is parallel to Daniel 2, but gives some detail of the rise of the Papacy and the persecution of the saints. I understand the two applications of the 1260 days as depicting the rise and decline of the RCC from Justinian in AD 529-533 to the French Revolution AD 1789-1793 and from the Decree of Phocas in AD 610 to AD 1870 when the Papacy lost sovereignty over the Papal States and suffered severely at that time.

The time period must fit in with the overall context of the details of the Roman Empire from its inception to the coming of Jesus and the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth. I also consider the 2300 days of Daniel 8 to represent from BC 334-333 to AD 1967, the retaking of Jerusalem by the Jews in the Six Day War (much quicker than the present conflict). This time period is also very fitting in it's overall context.

Kind regards
Trevor

Scripture interprets scripture. If there is no mention of days being years in Scripture, then days are probably just days.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JT4444,

Scripture interprets scripture. If there is no mention of days being years in Scripture, then days are probably just days.

I suggest that 1260 days in the context of Daniel 7 and 12 and 2300 days in Daniel 8 do not make much sense, to me at least. I am conscious of some very flimsy last day views of these, but to me they are very fanciful.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Trevor, I responded to your response on the other site, but it looks like you've explained your position here. No need to respond over there again.

The process required to get to 1260 years would be:

Time, Times and an half = 3.5 years
3.5 years = 42 months
42 months = 1260 days
1260 days = 1260 years per the day for a year principle.

I disagree that the day for a year principle applies to the Daniel 12:6-7 passage.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It's 3.5 years from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished to the time the abomination of desolation is placed.1290 days exactly.
The persecution of the saints begins after the daily sacrifice is abolished and lasts 3.5 years till Christ comes.
The great tribulation which takes place when the armed forces place the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem is mentioned in Daniel 12:1.

So you know when you see the daily sacrifice abolished.It will be 1290 days to when you see a cloud rise from Jerusalem and a great earthquakes shakes that great city.

3.5 years.
A time,times and a half.

PS
It took me ten years to learn what the daily sacrifice is.Dont let it slip past you.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Jarhead4Jesus,

The process required to get to 1260 years would be:
Time, Times and an half = 3.5 years
3.5 years = 42 months
42 months = 1260 days
1260 days = 1260 years per the day for a year principle.

Yes, I agree with this conclusion even though you do not accept this or all of this.

I disagree that the day for a year principle applies to the Daniel 12:6-7 passage.

I am still at a loss to understand how you really understand the three time periods in Daniel 12. In your opening post you gave your conclusion as:

In conclusion, the answer given in Daniel 12:7, "it shall be for a time, times, and an half;" means 3,500 years

If it represents 3,500 years, when does this period start and when does it conclude and when it concludes what will happen, what will be accomplished or what will be established?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Jarhead4Jesus,

Time = the 1,000 year reign of Christ
Times = the 2,000 years from Christ's ascension to the Tribulation
Half = the '70 weeks' prophecy which is 490 years.

I need to apologise as I have reread your OP and this seems to give your perspective of the start and end of your 3500 years. The problem that I see with this is that your 3500 years finishes at the end of the 1000 years, while the 1335 time period ends with the resurrection of Daniel which is at the beginning of the 1000 years.

Daniel 12:7–13 (KJV): 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[reddogs]

Greetings again JT4444,

I suggest that 1260 days in the context of Daniel 7 and 12 and 2300 days in Daniel 8 do not make much sense, to me at least. I am conscious of some very flimsy last day views of these, but to me they are very fanciful.

Kind regards
Trevor

Well, look at the texts as the time periods occur eight times in scripture:
Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

They not make sense to someone who wants to do it as literal days, but if you use the prophetic time, a day for a year principle, the historic points line up and you can see how the "time, times and half a time" (i.e. 1+2+0.5=3.5), "1,260 days" and "42 months" mentioned in Daniel and Revelation represent a period of 1260 years.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Trevor, great observation and thank you for bringing this up.

As we look at the Daniel 12, the question in verse 6 is not the same timeframe as found in verses 11-13. In fact, a completely new timeframe is defined in verse 11. Therefore, the answers given, are not relevant to each other.

Question in verse 6, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?"
The timeframe is from Daniel 11:2 ,"and now I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia;" to Daniel 12:3.
The great white throne judgement is found in Daniel 12:2, "...and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

The timeframe given in Daniel 12:11, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

These are clearly not the same timeframes, and therefore, the number of days given in Daniel 12:11-12 are not relevant to the answer given in Daniel 12:7, "... it shall be for a time, times, and an half;"

I agree that the 1335th day is the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ. Although, the 'end of these wonders' is the great white throne judgement.

Hoping that this adds clarity to my original post.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

It's 3.5 years from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished to the time the abomination of desolation is placed.1290 days exactly.
The persecution of the saints begins after the daily sacrifice is abolished and lasts 3.5 years till Christ comes.
The great tribulation which takes place when the armed forces place the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem is mentioned in Daniel 12:1.

So you know when you see the daily sacrifice abolished.It will be 1290 days to when you see a cloud rise from Jerusalem and a great earthquakes shakes that great city.

3.5 years.
A time,times and a half.

PS
It took me ten years to learn what the daily sacrifice is.Dont let it slip past you.

I agree that the passage in Daniel 12:11, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." is referring to a 3.5 year period.

Although, that time period is NOT:
FROM the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away,
TO the abomination that maketh desolate setup.

The passage clearly states that it is:
FROM the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away,
AND the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
(*Note the comma placement in the original passage)

The TO would be the second coming of Christ (sanctuary shall be cleansed).
(Daniel 7:25 and 8:13-14)

Please forgive me if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Well, look at the texts as the time periods occur eight times in scripture:
Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

They not make sense to someone who wants to do it as literal days, but if you use the prophetic time, a day for a year principle, the historic points line up and you can see how the "time, times and half a time" (i.e. 1+2+0.5=3.5), "1,260 days" and "42 months" mentioned in Daniel and Revelation represent a period of 1260 years.

To be sure, I looked up each of the references given.

Daniel 7:25 - refers to the Great Tribulation
Daniel 9:27 - refers to the Great Tribulation
Daniel 12:7 - refers to the time from the 3 Persian kings to the end of the great white throne judgement
Revelation 11:2 - refers to a time of 42 months leading up to the time of the 2 witnesses - a 'month' is a month
Revelation 11:3 - refers to the first half of the Tribulation - a 'day' is a day
Revelation 12:6 - refers to the Great Tribulation - 1,260 days - a 'day' is a day
Revelation 12:14 - refers to the Great Tribulation
Revelation 13:5 - refers to the Great Tribulation

What are you saying would refer to 1,260 years?

 

[reddogs]

Well, look at the texts as the time periods occur eight times in scripture:
Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

They not make sense to someone who wants to do it as literal days, but if you use the prophetic time, a day for a year principle, the historic points line up and you can see how the "time, times and half a time" (i.e. 1+2+0.5=3.5), "1,260 days" and "42 months" mentioned in Daniel and Revelation represent a period of 1260 years.

Need to understand what each phrase means, so lets break them down.
A time refers to a year.
Times (plural) would be two years.
Then half a time, would be half a year.
So 'time' is 360 days, 'times' is 720 days, 'half a time' is 180 days. So 306+720+180 equals 1260 days.
'half of one set of seven' is half of 7 times 360 or 2520, which comes out to (2520 divided by 2) 1260 days
'42 months' is easier, its 42 months of 30 days for each month, so 42 x 30 = 1260 days
Revelation mentions these three different periods that are all the same, 1,260 days, 3½ years, or forty-two months. You use 30-day months as the Jews used and they come out exactly 3½ years/42 months/1260 to the day.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Jarhead4Jesus and reddogs,

They not make sense to someone who wants to do it as literal days, but if you use the prophetic time, a day for a year principle, the historic points line up

I have a copy of the SDA book "The Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation" by Uriah Smith 1944, but I have not read this extensively or determined how the various time periods are expounded. I am not sure if the SDA perspective is reasonably fixed and now corresponds to the presentation in this book. Although SDAs have a very strong view on Daniel 8 neither of you have mentioned how you understand Daniel 8:13-14. I am on the same page as SDAs accepting the day for a year principle, but definitely disagree with them concerning the fulfillment of Daniel 8:13-14.

Daniel 7:25 - refers to the Great Tribulation
Daniel 9:27 - refers to the Great Tribulation
Daniel 12:7 - refers to the time from the 3 Persian kings to the end of the great white throne judgement

Yes, we are on a different page with these three as I believe very much on the day for a year principle, and also the day for a year principle for Daniel 8:13-14 and the 70 Weeks Prophecy.

I am the librarian for our meeting and about 1 year ago the Librarian for another meeting asked if I could find an exposition by the Prophecy Editor of one of our magazines. The article he was looking for was on the three time periods of Daniel 12. He had some print copies of the magazine, but I also had electronic copies, and I was able to locate a number of articles. The first was in July 1976 and it was part of a special study section pages 257-264. It is an extensive article starting with a defense of the Day for a Year principle and he then gives an exposition of the major time periods using this principle. I agree with most of his exposition including Daniel 7:25, 8:13-14, 9:27, 12:7.

I have a print copy of the first article, but only electronic copies of the other five articles that give an exposition or reference to Daniel 12. I will be reading the print article again this afternoon outside while I guard my two Isa Brown hens against the two dogs from next door or a fox while they scavenge amongst the mulch. I am not sure if I could give a satisfactory summary of this first 8-page article. I also see the need to read the other articles first, dated 1978, 1984, 1987, 1999 and 2001. Also one of our speakers now located in another meeting has given two talks on the time periods of Daniel 12. I tentatively agree with the general scope of these expositions and talks, but I would prefer to start with Daniel 7 and 8 and if we do not agree here then I do not consider we should progress to Daniel 12 which is of the same genre, but also much more difficult.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Need to understand what each phrase means, so lets break them down.
A time refers to a year.
Times (plural) would be two years.
Then half a time, would be half a year.
So 'time' is 360 days, 'times' is 720 days, 'half a time' is 180 days. So 306+720+180 equals 1260 days.
'half of one set of seven' is half of 7 times 360 or 2520, which comes out to (2520 divided by 2) 1260 days
'42 months' is easier, its 42 months of 30 days for each month, so 42 x 30 = 1260 days
Revelation mentions these three different periods that are all the same, 1,260 days, 3½ years, or forty-two months. You use 30-day months as the Jews used and they come out exactly 3½ years/42 months/1260 to the day.

There was no disagreement with the math, only with the meaning of the answer given in Daniel 12:7.
That passage only contains the phrase, 'a time, times, and an half', which we both seem to agree is a reference to 3.5 of something.

It appears that our disagreement is in the unit of measure concerning 'a time'.

Given the context of the question in Daniel 12:6, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?"

FROM: Daniel 11:2, "Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia;"
TO: the last wonder, which was given in Daniel 12:2, "...and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

FROM: The end of Daniel's time in Babylon
TO: The great white throne judgement

This was obviously not 3.5 years, or 1,260 years.

Per the original post:
Revelation 20:1-7 = 1,000 = a time (unit of measure)
Hosea 5:15-6:2 = 2,000 = times
Daniel 9:24-27 = 490 = an half

These are the three primary time-based prophecies that began immediately upon the end of Daniel's time in Babylon and connect, one to another, until the great white throne judgment.

If you're interested in receiving the articles/diagrams, please email me at davidgbarnette@gmail.com

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Greetings again Jarhead4Jesus and reddogs,

I have a copy of the SDA book "The Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation" by Uriah Smith 1944, but I have not read this extensively or determined how the various time periods are expounded. I am not sure if the SDA perspective is reasonably fixed and now corresponds to the presentation in this book. Although SDAs have a very strong view on Daniel 8 neither of you have mentioned how you understand Daniel 8:13-14. I am on the same page as SDAs accepting the day for a year principle, but definitely disagree with them concerning the fulfillment of Daniel 8:13-14.

Yes, we are on a different page with these three as I believe very much on the day for a year principle, and also the day for a year principle for Daniel 8:13-14 and the 70 Weeks Prophecy.

I am the librarian for our meeting and about 1 year ago the Librarian for another meeting asked if I could find an exposition by the Prophecy Editor of one of our magazines. The article he was looking for was on the three time periods of Daniel 12. He had some print copies of the magazine, but I also had electronic copies, and I was able to locate a number of articles. The first was in July 1976 and it was part of a special study section pages 257-264. It is an extensive article starting with a defense of the Day for a Year principle and he then gives an exposition of the major time periods using this principle. I agree with most of his exposition including Daniel 7:25, 8:13-14, 9:27, 12:7.

I have a print copy of the first article, but only electronic copies of the other five articles that give an exposition or reference to Daniel 12. I will be reading the print article again this afternoon outside while I guard my two Isa Brown hens against the two dogs from next door or a fox while they scavenge amongst the mulch. I am not sure if I could give a satisfactory summary of this first 8-page article. I also see the need to read the other articles first, dated 1978, 1984, 1987, 1999 and 2001. Also one of our speakers now located in another meeting has given two talks on the time periods of Daniel 12. I tentatively agree with the general scope of these expositions and talks, but I would prefer to start with Daniel 7 and 8 and if we do not agree here then I do not consider we should progress to Daniel 12 which is of the same genre, but also much more difficult.

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor, best of luck with safeguarding those hens.

I don't think that we disagree concerning the 'day to a year principle', mathematically speaking.
But we do seem to disagree as to where it applies and where it does not.

Concerning the current post, it is not the 'day to a year principle', but rather the 'day to a thousand-years principle' (2 Peter 3:8) that is in use in Daniel 12:6-7.

With Daniel 12, we need not be carried away with long 'prophetic time' conversions. There are three primary time-based prophecies that begin as soon as Daniel's time in Babylon ends, and run concurrently until the great white throne judgement.

Per the original post:
Revelation 20:1-7 = 1,000 = a time (unit of measure)
Hosea 5:15-6:2 = 2,000 = times
Daniel 9:24-27 = 490 = an half

The question that needs to be answered first, and seems to be missed here, is this:

Do you agree that Daniel 12:2,"...and some to shame and everlasting contempt." is a reference to the great white throne judgement?

If you do agree, then we're in agreement... what else is there to discuss? LOL

If you do not agree, then Daniel 12:2 is what you should be trying to explain.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

Trevor, I wouldn't mind discussing Daniel 8 and 9 as well, but I would rather have that conversation in some other post.
That way, the scope of this post remains centered on the Q&A in Daniel 12:6-7.

 

[reddogs]

Greetings again Jarhead4Jesus and reddogs,

I have a copy of the SDA book "The Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation" by Uriah Smith 1944, but I have not read this extensively or determined how the various time periods are expounded. I am not sure if the SDA perspective is reasonably fixed and now corresponds to the presentation in this book. Although SDAs have a very strong view on Daniel 8 neither of you have mentioned how you understand Daniel 8:13-14. I am on the same page as SDAs accepting the day for a year principle, but definitely disagree with them concerning the fulfillment of Daniel 8:13-14.

Yes, we are on a different page with these three as I believe very much on the day for a year principle, and also the day for a year principle for Daniel 8:13-14 and the 70 Weeks Prophecy.

I am the librarian for our meeting and about 1 year ago the Librarian for another meeting asked if I could find an exposition by the Prophecy Editor of one of our magazines. The article he was looking for was on the three time periods of Daniel 12. He had some print copies of the magazine, but I also had electronic copies, and I was able to locate a number of articles. The first was in July 1976 and it was part of a special study section pages 257-264. It is an extensive article starting with a defense of the Day for a Year principle and he then gives an exposition of the major time periods using this principle. I agree with most of his exposition including Daniel 7:25, 8:13-14, 9:27, 12:7.

I have a print copy of the first article, but only electronic copies of the other five articles that give an exposition or reference to Daniel 12. I will be reading the print article again this afternoon outside while I guard my two Isa Brown hens against the two dogs from next door or a fox while they scavenge amongst the mulch. I am not sure if I could give a satisfactory summary of this first 8-page article. I also see the need to read the other articles first, dated 1978, 1984, 1987, 1999 and 2001. Also one of our speakers now located in another meeting has given two talks on the time periods of Daniel 12. I tentatively agree with the general scope of these expositions and talks, but I would prefer to start with Daniel 7 and 8 and if we do not agree here then I do not consider we should progress to Daniel 12 which is of the same genre, but also much more difficult.

Kind regards
Trevor

What issue do you have with the 2300 days...

https://manna.amazingfacts.org/amazingfacts/website/bibleprophecytruth/documents/2300-day-prophecy.pdf