donald perry
Member
This is the first time I am at this forum. I have an eschatology that involves an understanding of Preterism. I am not a Full-Preterist and I am not a Hyper Preterist and I am not a Partial Preterist. I am some kind of a Futurist.
The Partial Preterist and Full Preterist invention as far as I can tell infers that there is fulfillment after AD 70 with a second coming. Yet to me it seems they indirectly or directly imply that Jesus and His apostles were operating in the Old Testament age up until AD 70. That the Christian age started in AD 70. For example Gary DeMar in The Passing Away of Heaven and Earth writes: “ A similar phrase is used by the author of Hebrews: "But now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Hebrews 9:26). Jesus was manifested, not at the beginning, but "at the consummation of the ages." The period between A.D. 30 and 70 is, as the apostle Peter describes it, "these last times" (1 Peter 1:20). As time drew near for Jerusalem's destruction, Peter could say that "the end of all things was at hand" (4:7).” Do you see my point?
I think Preterist eschatology is very dangerous, and it can destroy a persons soteriology. When atonement is not accomplished by Christ until A.D. 70 this puts the burden on the Firstfruits to accomplished it rather than receive the application of it because of Rom 12:1, 2; 2 Tim 4:6; Phil 2:12, 17; Phil. 3:10; Gal 2:20; 2 Cor. 4:10; Col. 1:24; 1 Peter 4:13. Rather the Bible says all of what was done on earth after the cross was so that we would reflect that which was accomplished in Christ through our sanctification.
Should not the cross be our focal point for the beginning of the NT age and atonement, the end is an end when we are in heaven, this had nothing to do with AD 70 as I see it. Romans 5:11; Hebrews 1:3, 9:10, 10:11-14 shows Christ sat down after the cross not after AD 70. And if we are still marrying we are still in the first age and world that was passing away. We are not now in another dispensation after AD 70. (1 Corinthians 7:29-34.)
The *overriding theme* in the Bible shows a complete end to sanctification and sinless perfection at Christ’s coming. Christ's coming signals the completion of the church's perfection where the living meet the dead who followed Christ in a completed sanctification. (Heb. 9:28) This did not happen in any coherent way for the living in AD 70 in terms Partial Preterism leaves us with, or in any coherent way for those for our future that Partial Preterism leaves us with.
Partial Preterism says that only some of the New Testament is fulfilled in relation to the second coming, but that there is still Scripture that has yet to be fulfilled. The problem with this is that there is only one apocalypse and one second coming in the New Testament. And once you say that one thing is fulfilled then every other prophecy about the second coming follows like a chain of dominos for complete fulfillment. This is especially true when Partial Preterists like Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry say that there was an end of the age in AD 70. But now they will try to show that we are still living in the last days? The Christian age has no end. Only the Creeds and their Soteriology are holding them back. The Partial Preterist system does not work coherently as far as I can tell. Right?
I see no need to list all the verses that prove atonement was at the cross, these verses alone show Preterism to be clearly be in error. The Preterist arguments, and why they will not work are answered best by comparing them to Redirectionalim, a name I came up with for this view I am talking about. This means reading Hebrews 4:1, Revelation 1-3 and the rest of the Bible like it was written to you and not jumping out of the apostolic 33-70 age as Kenneth Gentry and Gary DeMar have. They say that we are in another age, right?
The Perfect Type as I see it:
As an example, in AD 66 everyone in Christ had left Jerusalem (Matt. 25:10, Rev. 18:4) and was understood to be of those who were perfected as the Bride. These were those who had made themselves ready by the sanctification available to believers in Christ (Rev. 19:7), the New Jerusalem was identified. The damned clung to that old world that still exists today, and were destroyed. Christianity was defined on that day by the Church. All these who were to be defined as the bride of Christ either died as martyrs or died a natural death, but all were understood to have ascended (1 Thess. 4:16-17) into the New Jerusalem coming down (Rev. 21:2).
Now in our generation we are faced with the same challenges, to walk unto perfection to meet the Bridegroom. It means that if we are in Christ we will be ready, not like a foolish servant. Luke 12:46 “The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.” Matthew 25:24 “Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:”. It means that the firstfruits of the church were of those who inherit the promise of eternal life, this was not the case of those in earthly Jerusalem. Christ’s coming [or your physical demise] may not be for a long time off in the future as Postmillennialists propose.
The passages of 1 Thess. 4:14-18 and 1 Cor. 15:50-51 refer to the firstfruits coming to the gates of the eternal state, inheriting the promises given to the seven churches in Revelation and at the same time having their candlestick remain. This must be something that was understood spiritually. 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thess. 4 cannot ever be fulfilled on this earth because Paul said "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." You have to die like Jesus did to inherit incorruption, He is the perfect type.
Inventing new reasons for the second coming:
As far as I can tell Partial Preterists are not defining the second coming because they do not follow the apostolic model. This makes them unorthodox in that regard. Instead of focusing on the apostolic age they wish to reinvent it.
Literal Fulfillment:
Acts 1:9-11 “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” If Jesus was to come again literally in the same way He left, then Jesus accomplished nothing in the perfect plan He had for the world. The Jesus that these men of Galilee will see coming could be literal, I believe He met with them again in AD 66. However, this kind of coming and going was not the same thing as what the Holy Spirit was to accomplish by His coming to take us to perfection in Christ. Pentecost follows in the beginning of the next chapter after Acts 1:9-11. Jesus is the perfect type, and we shall only see Him in heaven in His glorified body. In the resurrection we will see Jesus again. 1 Cor. 11:26 says “For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.” We have not seen Jesus arrive yet from heaven, therefore we will still eat this bread, and drink this cup. Hebrews 9:28 says “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” When we see Him again it will not be in a corruptible body, 1 Cor. 15:53,54. Everyone will see Jesus this “second time” without delay when they are no more in the corruptible body spoken of in 1 Cor. 15. 2 Cor [Redirectionalism]. 5:8 says “to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” Hebrews 9:27 says “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”
Donald Perry
The Partial Preterist and Full Preterist invention as far as I can tell infers that there is fulfillment after AD 70 with a second coming. Yet to me it seems they indirectly or directly imply that Jesus and His apostles were operating in the Old Testament age up until AD 70. That the Christian age started in AD 70. For example Gary DeMar in The Passing Away of Heaven and Earth writes: “ A similar phrase is used by the author of Hebrews: "But now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Hebrews 9:26). Jesus was manifested, not at the beginning, but "at the consummation of the ages." The period between A.D. 30 and 70 is, as the apostle Peter describes it, "these last times" (1 Peter 1:20). As time drew near for Jerusalem's destruction, Peter could say that "the end of all things was at hand" (4:7).” Do you see my point?
I think Preterist eschatology is very dangerous, and it can destroy a persons soteriology. When atonement is not accomplished by Christ until A.D. 70 this puts the burden on the Firstfruits to accomplished it rather than receive the application of it because of Rom 12:1, 2; 2 Tim 4:6; Phil 2:12, 17; Phil. 3:10; Gal 2:20; 2 Cor. 4:10; Col. 1:24; 1 Peter 4:13. Rather the Bible says all of what was done on earth after the cross was so that we would reflect that which was accomplished in Christ through our sanctification.
Should not the cross be our focal point for the beginning of the NT age and atonement, the end is an end when we are in heaven, this had nothing to do with AD 70 as I see it. Romans 5:11; Hebrews 1:3, 9:10, 10:11-14 shows Christ sat down after the cross not after AD 70. And if we are still marrying we are still in the first age and world that was passing away. We are not now in another dispensation after AD 70. (1 Corinthians 7:29-34.)
The *overriding theme* in the Bible shows a complete end to sanctification and sinless perfection at Christ’s coming. Christ's coming signals the completion of the church's perfection where the living meet the dead who followed Christ in a completed sanctification. (Heb. 9:28) This did not happen in any coherent way for the living in AD 70 in terms Partial Preterism leaves us with, or in any coherent way for those for our future that Partial Preterism leaves us with.
Partial Preterism says that only some of the New Testament is fulfilled in relation to the second coming, but that there is still Scripture that has yet to be fulfilled. The problem with this is that there is only one apocalypse and one second coming in the New Testament. And once you say that one thing is fulfilled then every other prophecy about the second coming follows like a chain of dominos for complete fulfillment. This is especially true when Partial Preterists like Gary DeMar and Kenneth Gentry say that there was an end of the age in AD 70. But now they will try to show that we are still living in the last days? The Christian age has no end. Only the Creeds and their Soteriology are holding them back. The Partial Preterist system does not work coherently as far as I can tell. Right?
I see no need to list all the verses that prove atonement was at the cross, these verses alone show Preterism to be clearly be in error. The Preterist arguments, and why they will not work are answered best by comparing them to Redirectionalim, a name I came up with for this view I am talking about. This means reading Hebrews 4:1, Revelation 1-3 and the rest of the Bible like it was written to you and not jumping out of the apostolic 33-70 age as Kenneth Gentry and Gary DeMar have. They say that we are in another age, right?
The Perfect Type as I see it:
As an example, in AD 66 everyone in Christ had left Jerusalem (Matt. 25:10, Rev. 18:4) and was understood to be of those who were perfected as the Bride. These were those who had made themselves ready by the sanctification available to believers in Christ (Rev. 19:7), the New Jerusalem was identified. The damned clung to that old world that still exists today, and were destroyed. Christianity was defined on that day by the Church. All these who were to be defined as the bride of Christ either died as martyrs or died a natural death, but all were understood to have ascended (1 Thess. 4:16-17) into the New Jerusalem coming down (Rev. 21:2).
Now in our generation we are faced with the same challenges, to walk unto perfection to meet the Bridegroom. It means that if we are in Christ we will be ready, not like a foolish servant. Luke 12:46 “The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.” Matthew 25:24 “Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:”. It means that the firstfruits of the church were of those who inherit the promise of eternal life, this was not the case of those in earthly Jerusalem. Christ’s coming [or your physical demise] may not be for a long time off in the future as Postmillennialists propose.
The passages of 1 Thess. 4:14-18 and 1 Cor. 15:50-51 refer to the firstfruits coming to the gates of the eternal state, inheriting the promises given to the seven churches in Revelation and at the same time having their candlestick remain. This must be something that was understood spiritually. 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thess. 4 cannot ever be fulfilled on this earth because Paul said "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." You have to die like Jesus did to inherit incorruption, He is the perfect type.
Inventing new reasons for the second coming:
As far as I can tell Partial Preterists are not defining the second coming because they do not follow the apostolic model. This makes them unorthodox in that regard. Instead of focusing on the apostolic age they wish to reinvent it.
Literal Fulfillment:
Acts 1:9-11 “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” If Jesus was to come again literally in the same way He left, then Jesus accomplished nothing in the perfect plan He had for the world. The Jesus that these men of Galilee will see coming could be literal, I believe He met with them again in AD 66. However, this kind of coming and going was not the same thing as what the Holy Spirit was to accomplish by His coming to take us to perfection in Christ. Pentecost follows in the beginning of the next chapter after Acts 1:9-11. Jesus is the perfect type, and we shall only see Him in heaven in His glorified body. In the resurrection we will see Jesus again. 1 Cor. 11:26 says “For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.” We have not seen Jesus arrive yet from heaven, therefore we will still eat this bread, and drink this cup. Hebrews 9:28 says “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” When we see Him again it will not be in a corruptible body, 1 Cor. 15:53,54. Everyone will see Jesus this “second time” without delay when they are no more in the corruptible body spoken of in 1 Cor. 15. 2 Cor [Redirectionalism]. 5:8 says “to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” Hebrews 9:27 says “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”
Donald Perry
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