S
sisterchristian
Guest
Yes it was my friend!lecoop said:
:Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
:Re: reply
Everyone allowed into the kingdom will first have to pass the "sheep and goat" judgement. Therefore, those allowed into the kingdom will be believers in God. You are correct: some of them will turn against God. Some won't. Some that turn against God will be parents that bear children during the 1000 years. Some that bear children will stick with God. I don't see where your problem is. Maybe you can make it more plain?
Coop
golfjack said:
Everyone allowed into the kingdom will first have to pass the "sheep and goat" judgement. Therefore, those allowed into the kingdom will be believers in God. You are correct: some of them will turn against God. Some won't. Some that turn against God will be parents that bear children during the 1000 years. Some that bear children will stick with God. I don't see where your problem is. Maybe you can make it more plain?
Coop
n2thelight
Member
At the return of Christ the age of flesh will be over,therefore noone will be born during this time,and never again for that matter.
Also during the millennium noone will turn against God,it is only after this period that some will,and they will do so while following satan after he is released for that short season
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,and at the start of the millennium this will be Gods kingdom,and shall continue to be for all eternity
onelove said:
I guess you have to understand that verse with these:
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Where did all the people come from? Did this many enter the kingdom?
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Does fire devour spiritual bodies?
Isaiah 65
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
This sounds very much like it is speaking of the millennium, and it speaks of infants.
Where is a verse showing us that those inheriting the earth, will be changed?
1 Cor 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Notice what comes next, after the "flesh and blood." Paul is speaking of the church, and of the rapture, where our bodies will be changed. what of someone that turns to God during the last half of the 70th week? They will miss the rapture, and will not be changed.
Coop
n2thelight
Member
lecoop
You got to understand the purpose of the millennium,it is a time to be taught the true Word of God without the influence of satan.
When Christ returns all will be changed,not just the so called saved,but all,as Ive stated earlier the differnce will be the condition of your soul,it will either be mortal or immortal.
So all the people that you ask about are the people that are here already,for as noone shall be born also shall noone die.The ones being taught during this time are being taught by those who reign with Christ
And yes fire from God not only can but will destroy the soul(spirit)that is known as the 2nd death.
If you belong to Christ at His return you won't have to worry about this (2nd death)
You are very much correct,this is speaking of the millennium,but you are misusing the word infant
Isaiah 65:19 "And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."
Every thing and person that would cause one to weep will be gone forever. They will be as if they had never been created in the first place. If you had a relative, a wife, husband, or daughter and they didn't make it, you could be sad about it, however God will wipe every thought of them from your memory. It is like you having four kids and one wasn't saved, that thought of that one will be erased from every family members mind, it will be like that son or brother never existed. This is why there will be no crying and weeping, but a continual time of rejoicing. This verse goes back to verse seventeen.
Isaiah 65:20 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."
This verse is a little twisted in the English, from what it reads in the Massoretic text. This is saying that no longer will a child die when it is only a few days old, and no longer will a person be considered old when they are an hundred days old. Why is this? We are in the eternity, there are no births and deaths, and every soul is in its incorruptible and immortal bodies. God is saying also that the sinner, no matter what his or her age will be blotted out, no longer in existance. The sinner will be gone, ashes forever.
Isaiah 65:21 "And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them."
This verse is talking about the Millennium age, and if you wanted to know what it will be like, this is it. Friend, the ways of this flesh world, with all of its cunning and wickness will not exist in the Millennium age. The ways of the Kenites, and their cheating and stealing through false scales, tricky laws, and their taking wealth through high interest rates will be gone. All evil will be removed from the earth.
Isaiah 65:22 "They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands."
This means that there will be no usery, one of the biggest snags of your generation. The trees that existed at this time were very ancient, and lived for centuries. God is telling us that there is not going to be any such thing as age in the Millennium kingdom. However it will be a time of discipline. All souls in that age will look exactly as they do in the prime of their life, at the age of the mid thirties. You can choose the age of thirty three and be accurate, because we will all be as Christ is, and He was thirty three at His crucifixion.
Isaiah 65:23 "They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble, for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them."
This is saying that the Millennium age will be as God planned life to be, when you don't work, you don't eat, and when you work you enjoy the fruits of your labor. You are going to work for your food, you will create it, and then you will eat what you have grown. This applies to what ever the spiritual body of that age consumes for life.
God is saying also that you are not going to bring forth a bunch of children that are nothing but trouble to you. Remember that there are not going to be any children born, and all souls that have been born are all the same age in their incorruptible bodies.
From umbilical cord to umbilical cord, generation after generation the remnant that sought after God will join themselves to the families to which they belong. They will know who they are, and which tribe, or family is theirs. They will know who they belong to, and those that will not be there in the eternity, or in the Millennium age will not be missed. They won't be missed because they won't be remembered.
Isaiah 65:24 "And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear."
Do you want to know what heaven in the eternity is like? Before you even know that you have a need, God will answer that need, and provide it for you. That is living better then an earthly king. Before it could even be considered in your mind, God knows what is best for you, and He will tend to those needs. God is telling you that every thought that you are thinking, He will know before you even have the time to form them in your mouth.
Isaiah 65:25 "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord."
This is in the eternity, and we see that there will be no eating of flesh, because there shall be no flesh. There will be no more of the things that are used by one animal to catch another, in the gathering of its prey. The serpent moves in the dust and hypnotizes its prey into subjection, and then devours it. There shall be no creature consuming another in God's Holy kingdom.
Where do you get that Paul is speaking about a rapture?
If you are waiting for a rapture, then you are going to be raptured by someone other than Jesus Christ for He is coming to earth to set up His kingdom here. The seventh trump is the exact time when the change takes place, and at no other place.
Remember the "dead" are the "spiritually dead" in Christ. "Raised" again means to "become awakened", to become active from another existence. The soul will shed its flesh and blood body to take on the new spiritual body, which is the incorruptible body. You may be spiritually dead, but you will also take on your new incorruptible body, which you will live in for the Millennium age kingdom of Christ.
Everyone is going to enter into the only dimension whereby any soul can be judged. This change from the flesh body into your new spiritual or incorruptible has nothing to do with the condition of your soul. If you were lost before, you still will be lost, and if you have received Jesus Christ and are under His shed blood, you will be in that same spiritual condition. What is happening is at the sounding of the seventh which is the last trumpet all flesh will be done away with, and all souls will now exist in their spiritual bodies.
?
You got to understand the purpose of the millennium,it is a time to be taught the true Word of God without the influence of satan.
When Christ returns all will be changed,not just the so called saved,but all,as Ive stated earlier the differnce will be the condition of your soul,it will either be mortal or immortal.
So all the people that you ask about are the people that are here already,for as noone shall be born also shall noone die.The ones being taught during this time are being taught by those who reign with Christ
And yes fire from God not only can but will destroy the soul(spirit)that is known as the 2nd death.
If you belong to Christ at His return you won't have to worry about this (2nd death)
You are very much correct,this is speaking of the millennium,but you are misusing the word infant
Isaiah 65:19 "And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying."
Every thing and person that would cause one to weep will be gone forever. They will be as if they had never been created in the first place. If you had a relative, a wife, husband, or daughter and they didn't make it, you could be sad about it, however God will wipe every thought of them from your memory. It is like you having four kids and one wasn't saved, that thought of that one will be erased from every family members mind, it will be like that son or brother never existed. This is why there will be no crying and weeping, but a continual time of rejoicing. This verse goes back to verse seventeen.
Isaiah 65:20 "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."
This verse is a little twisted in the English, from what it reads in the Massoretic text. This is saying that no longer will a child die when it is only a few days old, and no longer will a person be considered old when they are an hundred days old. Why is this? We are in the eternity, there are no births and deaths, and every soul is in its incorruptible and immortal bodies. God is saying also that the sinner, no matter what his or her age will be blotted out, no longer in existance. The sinner will be gone, ashes forever.
Isaiah 65:21 "And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them."
This verse is talking about the Millennium age, and if you wanted to know what it will be like, this is it. Friend, the ways of this flesh world, with all of its cunning and wickness will not exist in the Millennium age. The ways of the Kenites, and their cheating and stealing through false scales, tricky laws, and their taking wealth through high interest rates will be gone. All evil will be removed from the earth.
Isaiah 65:22 "They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands."
This means that there will be no usery, one of the biggest snags of your generation. The trees that existed at this time were very ancient, and lived for centuries. God is telling us that there is not going to be any such thing as age in the Millennium kingdom. However it will be a time of discipline. All souls in that age will look exactly as they do in the prime of their life, at the age of the mid thirties. You can choose the age of thirty three and be accurate, because we will all be as Christ is, and He was thirty three at His crucifixion.
Isaiah 65:23 "They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble, for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them."
This is saying that the Millennium age will be as God planned life to be, when you don't work, you don't eat, and when you work you enjoy the fruits of your labor. You are going to work for your food, you will create it, and then you will eat what you have grown. This applies to what ever the spiritual body of that age consumes for life.
God is saying also that you are not going to bring forth a bunch of children that are nothing but trouble to you. Remember that there are not going to be any children born, and all souls that have been born are all the same age in their incorruptible bodies.
From umbilical cord to umbilical cord, generation after generation the remnant that sought after God will join themselves to the families to which they belong. They will know who they are, and which tribe, or family is theirs. They will know who they belong to, and those that will not be there in the eternity, or in the Millennium age will not be missed. They won't be missed because they won't be remembered.
Isaiah 65:24 "And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear."
Do you want to know what heaven in the eternity is like? Before you even know that you have a need, God will answer that need, and provide it for you. That is living better then an earthly king. Before it could even be considered in your mind, God knows what is best for you, and He will tend to those needs. God is telling you that every thought that you are thinking, He will know before you even have the time to form them in your mouth.
Isaiah 65:25 "The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord."
This is in the eternity, and we see that there will be no eating of flesh, because there shall be no flesh. There will be no more of the things that are used by one animal to catch another, in the gathering of its prey. The serpent moves in the dust and hypnotizes its prey into subjection, and then devours it. There shall be no creature consuming another in God's Holy kingdom.
Where do you get that Paul is speaking about a rapture?
If you are waiting for a rapture, then you are going to be raptured by someone other than Jesus Christ for He is coming to earth to set up His kingdom here. The seventh trump is the exact time when the change takes place, and at no other place.
Remember the "dead" are the "spiritually dead" in Christ. "Raised" again means to "become awakened", to become active from another existence. The soul will shed its flesh and blood body to take on the new spiritual body, which is the incorruptible body. You may be spiritually dead, but you will also take on your new incorruptible body, which you will live in for the Millennium age kingdom of Christ.
Everyone is going to enter into the only dimension whereby any soul can be judged. This change from the flesh body into your new spiritual or incorruptible has nothing to do with the condition of your soul. If you were lost before, you still will be lost, and if you have received Jesus Christ and are under His shed blood, you will be in that same spiritual condition. What is happening is at the sounding of the seventh which is the last trumpet all flesh will be done away with, and all souls will now exist in their spiritual bodies.
onelove said:
Please show scripture and verse for this?
Again, I want to see scripture. We looked at the verse where those "in Christ" were changed. Where do you see that those NOT "in Christ" are changed?
There are no scriptures I can find that specifically state whether or not babies will be born. However, I can find no scriptures that show the ones that pass the sheep and goat judement receiving resurrection bodies.
Thayers says of "infant:"
1) suckling, sucking child
There will indeed be a new heaven and a new earth, but John shows us that they will come sometime after the 1000 year reign of Christ. I can find no scripture that will show that loved ones in hell will be wiped totally from our memory. Perhaps that is just a theory.
Again, I think this is theory. And I think, when we are there, you will see that it is in error. It cannot be "eternity" for it is one thousand years. Perhaps you can find a verse where the sheep at the sheep and goat judgement receive their resurrection bodies? Next,what does tormented forever and ever mean?
Rev 14
10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
This seems very clearly to say that just as we will be in God's presense forever, they will be tormented in the fire and brimstone forever.
Yet we read:
Zechariah 14:17
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
This sure sounds like fleshly people acting in fleshly ways. If these people had their resurrection bodies, would they refuse to go to the King of Kings to worship? Oh, I guess since you believe that evil people receive resurrection bodies, then they would indeed act like this.
I rather think that this is speaking of the 1000 year reign. The lion will surely be flesh, as will the antelope, and the lion will get hungry, but will eat grass, not the antelope.
Where do you get that Paul is speaking about a rapture?[/quote:1d10f]
Compare:
1 Cor 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
There can be no doubt that Paul is speaking here of the same event. Today we call this the "rapture" or catching away of the church.
Sorry, but you are about 7 years off. Jesus comes to get the church before the 70th week starts. John then sees the church in heaven, just before the 70th week and day of the Lord is to start. Why is this so hard to believe? We, as the church, have no appointment with His wrath. His wrath starts with the 7th seal. Most of the church will not be here to see it. Those "looking for that blessed hope," His coming for the church, will be gone.
Where do you come up with such stuff? "In Christ" means that they have received Christ as their savior, and have been made "new creatures" in Christ Jesus. The "dead" in Christ means just exactly what it says: their bodies are dead. The grew old and died. But, they died, "in Christ," meaning that they were born again. What does "raised" mean?" We all know it mean "up!"
"...the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...
This is not difficult: the clouds are "up," in the air.
"Shall rise:" anistemi:
1) to cause to rise up, raise up
a) raise up from laying down
b) to raise up from the dead
Used:
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mar 1:35 ¶ And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed.
Act 1:15 ¶ And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Therefore, there is no need to attempt to come up with some spiritual meaning for "rise up." Paul wrote just exactly what he meant: those dead in Christ, would "rise up" just as Jesus rose from the dead. No mystery at all, if we take Paul at his word.
Coop
n2thelight
Member
lecoop
Ezekiel from chapter 38 on shows exactly what will be happening during this time(millennium)
I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed,"
Does not that verse say all?
Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Death means just that death,and this is the death of the soul,so if the soul dies please tell me how it suffers forever?
This is not even the subject,the subject is in verse 13,the dead are already with Christ,thats how He is able to bring them with him when He comes
I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.
I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].
These ones that Christ brings back are the same was that are under the alter now,waiting for the Lord to avenge them
Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"
These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven.
Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."
Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything.
Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
Ezekiel from chapter 38 on shows exactly what will be happening during this time(millennium)
I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall ALL be changed,"
Does not that verse say all?
Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Death means just that death,and this is the death of the soul,so if the soul dies please tell me how it suffers forever?
This is not even the subject,the subject is in verse 13,the dead are already with Christ,thats how He is able to bring them with him when He comes
I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.
I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].
These ones that Christ brings back are the same was that are under the alter now,waiting for the Lord to avenge them
Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"
These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven.
Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."
Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything.
Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."