[_ Old Earth _] Some More Garbage

[Pizza]

The Bible says that God and the angels abode' is in the 3rd heaven. God is everywhere remember. The Big Bang is a bunch of garbage
The Big Bang Theory vs. God’s Word
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/133-the-big-bang-theory-vs-gods-word

Lewis, I am of the conviction that God exists outside of space/time. The creation of the universe, that is, the Big Bang - are things He directed. The Big Bang did not create God nor did it create His 'abode'. The Big Bang was an event IN space-time, but God exists outside of Space-Time. Only an entity that exists outside of Space-Time could do/know/think/see/predict the things which He does.

We are trapped (in this life, anyway) in Space-time and cannot fathom where or in 'what' it is that God exists. I believe that He CAN manifest Himself in space-time, but unlike us, is not LIMITED to existing in Space-Time.

I believe that what we see as "the Big Bang" is what He describes in early Genesis.

 

[Pizza]

So, I don't get your question. What does it have to do with God's abode? And if He abides in 3rd Heaven, isn't that a contradiction to the fact that He is everywhere?

It is all confusion caused by the "Creationist's science versus the Bible" nonsense that Lewis is being confused by, IMO. This is where Ken Ham and others are doing harm, IMO.

And given one more prediction of the theory being validated, isn't that a clue that the theory is right?

I think it is a clue that does, indeed, give more support to what is still an unproven theory.
The best theory we have at this time, IMO.

 

[Barbarian]

You know, there has been an attempt to reconcile the geologic data with a young Earth chronology:
-USSHERING IN THE MILLENIUM-
by Russell Seitz
originally appeared in Earth magazine

The 6,000th anniversary of Earth's creation (4004 B.C. - A.D. 1997) is
about to be celebrated by congregations that revere geochronology's
founder, the good and great Archbishop Ussher. Their enthusiasm
seems bound to spill over into their congressional districts, with obvious
ramifications for the funding of geophysical research. So it may be
prudent to amend geochronology to fit a Biblically Correct 6,000-year
format, at least for the fiscal year to come.

25 Oct. 4004 B.C.: Encounter with Nemesis
knocks Lucifer out of Oort Gloud.
1 Nov. 4004 B.C.: Earth still largely molten;
Adam and Eve invent asbestos waders.
3714 B.C.: The first biotechnologist, Cain,
invents cyanobacteria.
3554 B.C.: Komatiitic lava inundates earliest
crust; Noah's Ark incinerated.
3264 B.C.: Methuselah begins to notice
passage of geological time.
3124 B.C.: Archaean stratiform sulfide
deposits form, making Bronze Age possible.
2844 B.C.: Tired of reading graphic granite,
Imhotep invents hieroglyphs.
2584 B.C.: Earliest sedimentation; discovery
of slate leads to stone tablets.
2444 B.C.: Breathable atmosphere develops;
first sermon preached.
2384 B.C.: Descendants of Tubal Cain
inaugurate banded Iron Age. Sphinx
starts to fossilize.
2024 B.C.: Nimrod the Hunter erects the
Geosyncline of Babel.
1914 B.C.: Advent of diapirism; Lot's wife
turned into first salt dome.
1794 B.C.: Children of Ham split from Israel-
ites, insisting that the Burgess Shale
fauna are kosher; chowder invented.
1704 B.C.: Charshumash the Hittite bitten by
first vertebrate; lawyers emerge from
slime.
1624 B.C.: Samson attempts perovskite
synthesis; laboratory of the Philistines
implodes.
1444 B.C.: War of the Chaldean Succession;
Pangea broken up in accordance with the
Treat of Uruk
1334 B.C.: Shang Empire abandons efforts
to invent compass when China drifts over
south magnetic pole.
1264 B.C.: Moses invents hydrofracturing;
opening of Red Sea rift drowns Egyptian
Army.
1194 B.C.: Odysseus runs aground on
Gondwandan Riviera; Circe founds Club Teth.
1104 B.C.: Ezekiel see de pterodactyl 'way
up in de middle ob de air.
1024 B.C.: Goliath stepped on by irate
Barosaurus, David takes credit.
794 B.C.: Jonah swallowed by Carcharas
megalodon.
564 B.C.: Pythagoras publishes Air-Earth-
Fire-Water phase diagram.
454 B.C.: Marble deposits form in Greece;
Parthenon erected.
338 B.C.: Aristotle concludes that quartz is
just another polymorph of ice, like
diamond or pearls; this is known as
the Wisdom of the Ancients.
48 B.C.: All of Gaul is divided into three
parts by the collision of Corsica with the
European Plate.
The Year Zero: Nothing much happened,
there being none.
A.D. 31: Miracle of the Loaves and
Ichthyosaurs.
A.D. 70: Paul, formerly Saul the Tarser,
undergoes identity crisis on the road to
Damascus and writes Epistle to the
Cephalopods.
A.D. 344: Vanguard of Attila the Hun
perishes when Romans breach
Gibraltar escarpment, flooding the
Mediterranean Desert.
A.D. 494: Snakes evolve and are driven out
of Ireland.
A.D. 974: Lief the Unlucky is lost with all
hands when his dragon ship is spotted
by an amorous Kronosaurus.
A.D. 1066: William the Conqueror invades
England by walking through northern
France.
A.D. 1215: Magna Carta eaten by Velociraptor.
A.D. 1324: Gunpowder and plate armor introduced;
dinosaurs hunted to extinction.
A.D. 1384: Dante Alighieri describes
core-mantle boundary.
A.D. 1444: Flowering plants appear; War of
the Roses commences.
A.D. 1484: Leonardo da Vinci designs
Archaeopteryx.
A.D. 1492: Mesoamerica emerges, thwarting
Columbus's discovery of Japan; the
Santa Maria is attacked by ammonites.
A.D. 1522: Hernan Cortes uses asteroid
impact to conquer Aztec Empire.
A.D. 1588: Spanish Armada frustrated by
continuing absence of English Channel.
A.D. 1636: Earliest primates appear; Harvard
founded.
A.D. 1664: An English primate becomes
Primate of Ireland; Archbishop Ussher
successfully deduces last four out of ten
digits of the age of the Earth.
A.D. 1688: Hapsburg Iceboat Armada
invades England via London-Bruges
canal; Inquisition burns Isaac Newton at
the stake for alchemy.
A.D. 1754: Gibbons evolve and write master-
pieces like The Oecline and Fall of the
Roman Empire.
A.D. 1776: Washington's Mastodon Cavalry
routs Hessians at Battle of Hudson Canyon.
A.D. 1835: Charles Darwin, attacked by giant
ratite in Galapagos, returns home a
convinced Neptunist.
A.D. 1846: A milestone in ape evolution is
passed: birth of a son to Bishop and Lady
Wilburforce.
A.D. 1867: COSMOS superstar Alexander
Von Humboldt wins the Napoleon lll
Peace Prize for sabotaging the Baltimore
Gun Club's lunar cannon.
A.D. 1894: Awed by extent of glaciation,
Cecil Rhodes proposes Capetown-to-
Cairo bobsled run.
A.D. 1914: Younger Dryas sea-level rise
unleashes U-boats into the Atlantic, Holy
Roman Empire wins World War I.
A.D. 1948: Harry Truman proposes using ice
to contain Stalin; Cold War begins, end-
ing Last Interglacial.
A.D. 1954: Glaciers retreat from Fulda Gap;
de Gaulle invades Russia.
A.D. 1957: Civil Rights Movement
challenges Jim Cro-Magnon laws.
A.D. 1961: Rachel Carson links DDT to
Glyptodonts' decline.
A.D. 1969: Last sighting of saber-toothed
tiger in Central Park; Elizabeth Taylor
divorces Proconsul.
A.D. 1971: Andy Warhol paints Campbell
Soup cans on walls of Lascaux caverns.
A.D. 1983: Australopithecus wins the
America's Cup.
A.D. 1988: Homo habilis volunteers to serve
as Pat Robertson's running mate.
A.D. 1990: Last Neanderthals perish in siege
of Kremlin.
A.D. 1991: Saddam Hussein discovers fire;
Holocene tar sands form in Kuwait.
A.D. 1997: Citing black smoker emissions,
the EPA bans continental drift. Thermophilis
wins Nobel Prize for sequencing its
own DNA while trapped in amber.

 

[Claudya]

You know, there has been an attempt to reconcile the geologic data with a young Earth chronology:
-USSHERING IN THE MILLENIUM-
by Russell Seitz
originally appeared in Earth magazine

The 6,000th anniversary of Earth's creation (4004 B.C. - A.D. 1997) is
about to be celebrated by congregations that revere geochronology's
founder, the good and great Archbishop Ussher. Their enthusiasm
seems bound to spill over into their congressional districts, with obvious
ramifications for the funding of geophysical research. So it may be
prudent to amend geochronology to fit a Biblically Correct 6,000-year
format, at least for the fiscal year to come.

25 Oct. 4004 B.C.: Encounter with Nemesis
knocks Lucifer out of Oort Gloud.
1 Nov. 4004 B.C.: Earth still largely molten;
Adam and Eve invent asbestos waders.
3714 B.C.: The first biotechnologist, Cain,
invents cyanobacteria.
3554 B.C.: Komatiitic lava inundates earliest
crust; Noah's Ark incinerated.
3264 B.C.: Methuselah begins to notice
passage of geological time.
3124 B.C.: Archaean stratiform sulfide
deposits form, making Bronze Age possible.
2844 B.C.: Tired of reading graphic granite,
Imhotep invents hieroglyphs.
2584 B.C.: Earliest sedimentation; discovery
of slate leads to stone tablets.
2444 B.C.: Breathable atmosphere develops;
first sermon preached.
2384 B.C.: Descendants of Tubal Cain
inaugurate banded Iron Age. Sphinx
starts to fossilize.
2024 B.C.: Nimrod the Hunter erects the
Geosyncline of Babel.
1914 B.C.: Advent of diapirism; Lot's wife
turned into first salt dome.
1794 B.C.: Children of Ham split from Israel-
ites, insisting that the Burgess Shale
fauna are kosher; chowder invented.
1704 B.C.: Charshumash the Hittite bitten by
first vertebrate; lawyers emerge from
slime.
1624 B.C.: Samson attempts perovskite
synthesis; laboratory of the Philistines
implodes.
1444 B.C.: War of the Chaldean Succession;
Pangea broken up in accordance with the
Treat of Uruk
1334 B.C.: Shang Empire abandons efforts
to invent compass when China drifts over
south magnetic pole.
1264 B.C.: Moses invents hydrofracturing;
opening of Red Sea rift drowns Egyptian
Army.
1194 B.C.: Odysseus runs aground on
Gondwandan Riviera; Circe founds Club Teth.
1104 B.C.: Ezekiel see de pterodactyl 'way
up in de middle ob de air.
1024 B.C.: Goliath stepped on by irate
Barosaurus, David takes credit.
794 B.C.: Jonah swallowed by Carcharas
megalodon.
564 B.C.: Pythagoras publishes Air-Earth-
Fire-Water phase diagram.
454 B.C.: Marble deposits form in Greece;
Parthenon erected.
338 B.C.: Aristotle concludes that quartz is
just another polymorph of ice, like
diamond or pearls; this is known as
the Wisdom of the Ancients.
48 B.C.: All of Gaul is divided into three
parts by the collision of Corsica with the
European Plate.
The Year Zero: Nothing much happened,
there being none.
A.D. 31: Miracle of the Loaves and
Ichthyosaurs.
A.D. 70: Paul, formerly Saul the Tarser,
undergoes identity crisis on the road to
Damascus and writes Epistle to the
Cephalopods.
A.D. 344: Vanguard of Attila the Hun
perishes when Romans breach
Gibraltar escarpment, flooding the
Mediterranean Desert.
A.D. 494: Snakes evolve and are driven out
of Ireland.
A.D. 974: Lief the Unlucky is lost with all
hands when his dragon ship is spotted
by an amorous Kronosaurus.
A.D. 1066: William the Conqueror invades
England by walking through northern
France.
A.D. 1215: Magna Carta eaten by Velociraptor.
A.D. 1324: Gunpowder and plate armor introduced;
dinosaurs hunted to extinction.
A.D. 1384: Dante Alighieri describes
core-mantle boundary.
A.D. 1444: Flowering plants appear; War of
the Roses commences.
A.D. 1484: Leonardo da Vinci designs
Archaeopteryx.
A.D. 1492: Mesoamerica emerges, thwarting
Columbus's discovery of Japan; the
Santa Maria is attacked by ammonites.
A.D. 1522: Hernan Cortes uses asteroid
impact to conquer Aztec Empire.
A.D. 1588: Spanish Armada frustrated by
continuing absence of English Channel.
A.D. 1636: Earliest primates appear; Harvard
founded.
A.D. 1664: An English primate becomes
Primate of Ireland; Archbishop Ussher
successfully deduces last four out of ten
digits of the age of the Earth.
A.D. 1688: Hapsburg Iceboat Armada
invades England via London-Bruges
canal; Inquisition burns Isaac Newton at
the stake for alchemy.
A.D. 1754: Gibbons evolve and write master-
pieces like The Oecline and Fall of the
Roman Empire.
A.D. 1776: Washington's Mastodon Cavalry
routs Hessians at Battle of Hudson Canyon.
A.D. 1835: Charles Darwin, attacked by giant
ratite in Galapagos, returns home a
convinced Neptunist.
A.D. 1846: A milestone in ape evolution is
passed: birth of a son to Bishop and Lady
Wilburforce.
A.D. 1867: COSMOS superstar Alexander
Von Humboldt wins the Napoleon lll
Peace Prize for sabotaging the Baltimore
Gun Club's lunar cannon.
A.D. 1894: Awed by extent of glaciation,
Cecil Rhodes proposes Capetown-to-
Cairo bobsled run.
A.D. 1914: Younger Dryas sea-level rise
unleashes U-boats into the Atlantic, Holy
Roman Empire wins World War I.
A.D. 1948: Harry Truman proposes using ice
to contain Stalin; Cold War begins, end-
ing Last Interglacial.
A.D. 1954: Glaciers retreat from Fulda Gap;
de Gaulle invades Russia.
A.D. 1957: Civil Rights Movement
challenges Jim Cro-Magnon laws.
A.D. 1961: Rachel Carson links DDT to
Glyptodonts' decline.
A.D. 1969: Last sighting of saber-toothed
tiger in Central Park; Elizabeth Taylor
divorces Proconsul.
A.D. 1971: Andy Warhol paints Campbell
Soup cans on walls of Lascaux caverns.
A.D. 1983: Australopithecus wins the
America's Cup.
A.D. 1988: Homo habilis volunteers to serve
as Pat Robertson's running mate.
A.D. 1990: Last Neanderthals perish in siege
of Kremlin.
A.D. 1991: Saddam Hussein discovers fire;
Holocene tar sands form in Kuwait.
A.D. 1997: Citing black smoker emissions,
the EPA bans continental drift. Thermophilis
wins Nobel Prize for sequencing its
own DNA while trapped in amber.

Sounds perfectly legit.

 

[Lewis]

Lewis, I am of the conviction that God exists outside of space/time. The creation of the universe, that is, the Big Bang - are things He directed. The Big Bang did not create God nor did it create His 'abode'. The Big Bang was an event IN space-time, but God exists outside of Space-Time. Only an entity that exists outside of Space-Time could do/know/think/see/predict the things which He does.

We are trapped (in this life, anyway) in Space-time and cannot fathom where or in 'what' it is that God exists. I believe that He CAN manifest Himself in space-time, but unlike us, is not LIMITED to existing in Space-Time.

I believe that what we see as "the Big Bang" is what He describes in early Genesis.

Yeah I thought about it being God directed, but the Big Bang can't be proven because it never ever went down.

The Big False Bang Theory
http://bigbangtheoryexposed.com/

THE BIG BANG THEORY IS WRONG
http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/43101/the-big-bang-theory-is-wrong/

 

[Rick W]

I hope respect is shown for members' beliefs on this board. We have every group represented one way or another in Christian circles. Please keep that in mind.
Thank you

 

[Pizza]

THE BIG BANG THEORY IS WRONG
http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/43101/the-big-bang-theory-is-wrong/

The Weekly World News? I HOPE you are being sarcastic, Lewis!

 

[Barbarian]

Here's a classic bit of ignorance from that site:

MICRO-EVOLUTION VS. MACRO-EVOLUTION: Micro-evolution (variations within a biological kind such as varieties of dogs, cats, horses, cows, etc.) simply is the expression, over time, of already existing genes.

Macrievolution is speciation. And that's been directly observed. The unfortunate fellow who wrote the above is confusing species (which is a scientific term) with "kinds" which is a religious belief.

And of course, we have numerous examples of the evolution of new genes. Even a high school biology student would know better than to propose that some original pair of animals had all the genes found in their descendants. For example, Adam and Eve together could have had at most four different genes for each gene locus. Yet there are dozens of them for most loci today. The rest evolved.

Pizza is right. The blind leading the blind.

 

[Vaccine]

I'm curious about those who believe in the big bang. Do you believe in it because you understand all about it or because you trust the scientists understand all about it?

And I don't mean to imply they're trying to mislead anyone. As far as I know there aren't really any dishonest scientists. I used to accept the big bang theory but the more I learned the more I realized how little I know. Now, the only thing I know for sure is Jesus is real.

 

[Barbarian]

I'm curious about those who believe in the big bang.

Odd way to put it. I believe in God. I accept that the Big Bang theory is true, because of the numerous predictions it makes that turned out to be true.

 

[agua.]

I'm curious about those who believe in the big bang. Do you believe in it because you understand all about it or because you trust the scientists understand all about it?

And I don't mean to imply they're trying to mislead anyone. As far as I know there aren't really any dishonest scientists. I used to accept the big bang theory but the more I learned the more I realized how little I know. Now, the only thing I know for sure is Jesus is real.

I can't say that I believe in the BB but I don't dismiss out of hand and I don't see any conflict with Creationism nor the reality of Jesus.

 

[Claudya]

You know, when I was a teenager I was a nerd with no friends. So I spend much of my free time studyig stuff like the BBT. When we finally learned about it in school I knew more about it than my teacher . I don't claim I understood all about it, but enough to see how the observations match the BBT much better than any alternative theory.

 

[Pizza]

I'm curious about those who believe in the big bang. Do you believe in it because you understand all about it or because you trust the scientists understand all about it?

I think that the stuff I've read makes the BBT sound very plausible.

Also, I think it sounds a LOT like what I read in early Genesis.

Lastly, when some Brit scientist, in the 90's, came out and attacked the big bang theory because HE thought it sounded too much like Genesis - I was pretty much sold!

 

[Vaccine]

Man they just won't quit will they ?

Big Bang breakthrough announced; gravity waves detected
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/17/tech/innovation/big-bang-gravitational-waves/index.html

Hey Lewis, I thought you'd be interested in this article following up on the discovery.

"Premature hype over gravitational waves highlights gaping holes in models for the origins and evolution of the Universe"
http://www.nature.com/news/big-bang-blunder-bursts-the-multiverse-bubble-1.15346

Turns out it was just dust, basically what they saw was a mirage. They go on to say this:

"Yet some proponents of inflation who celebrated the BICEP2 announcement already insist that the theory is equally valid whether or not gravitational waves are detected. How is this possible? The answer given by proponents is alarming: the inflationary paradigm is so flexible that it is immune to experimental and observational tests."

"“The inflationary paradigm is fundamentally untestable, and hence scientifically meaningless."

The scientific journal Nature is declaring inflationary paradigm scientifically meaningless.

 

[TOG]

Hey Lewis, I thought you'd be interested in this article following up on the discovery.

"Premature hype over gravitational waves highlights gaping holes in models for the origins and evolution of the Universe"
http://www.nature.com/news/big-bang-blunder-bursts-the-multiverse-bubble-1.15346

Turns out it was just dust, basically what they saw was a mirage. They go on to say this:

"Yet some proponents of inflation who celebrated the BICEP2 announcement already insist that the theory is equally valid whether or not gravitational waves are detected. How is this possible? The answer given by proponents is alarming: the inflationary paradigm is so flexible that it is immune to experimental and observational tests."

"“The inflationary paradigm is fundamentally untestable, and hence scientifically meaningless."

The scientific journal Nature is declaring inflationary paradigm scientifically meaningless.

If it can't be tested using the scientific method (observation and experimentation), then it's not scientific.

The TOG​

 

[Barbarian]

Probably the most convincing test for the Big Bang was done inadvertently, when two Bell Lab scientists found the predicted microwave background. No other theory predicted it, nor is there an otherwise reasonable explanation for it.

 

[jay55]

I thought The Big Bang Theory was a 2 bit TV show. It certainly has nothing to do with reality.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I'm curious about those who believe in the big bang. Do you believe in it because you understand all about it or because you trust the scientists understand all about it?

And I don't mean to imply they're trying to mislead anyone. As far as I know there aren't really any dishonest scientists. I used to accept the big bang theory but the more I learned the more I realized how little I know. Now, the only thing I know for sure is Jesus is real.

I accept it because the evidence seems to support it being true, this thread itself is presenting further fulfilled predictions that all point to it happening. I'm not a physicist, but I learned enough about it to accept it as the best theory out there.

Just because we don't have certainty doesn't mean that we can't accept it. There are no other theories out there that come even close, so we have a pretty good idea that it's true and are just ironing out the details.

It also perhaps has theological implications should it be true, which I find compelling, as did the priest who discovered it.

 

[Barbarian]

Actually, the term "Big Bang" was coined as a pejorative, by an deist who didn't like theistic implications of a universe with a moment of creation.

 

[Jack Spratt]

From what I understand. "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth". This is the very first verse of Gods book to us. His first statement of information to His created beings.
When God created the heavens and the earth He did it from a "singularity" where all the mass in existence, existed in one point in space too tiny to measure.
Well, where else would it be? It didn't exist..
This creation of all this mass from "nothing" or in scientific terms a "singularity" happened in a fraction of a fraction of a second but at a very specific speed. Forgive me that I don't have links to the exact scientific documents but IF it happened at a very small small amount of time too fast... the universe would have expanded to be so huge it would not exist as it does. IF it expanded at a very very small amount of time too slow.... It would have collapsed back in on itself... Can you not see God here?

Secondly, God created all animals....... in their own kind, birds, in their own kind, plants in their own kind. Why do you think that in this God breathed word it states the simple statements "in their own kind'? It's so we would not be fooled by Satan's lie of evolution. There is not a string of change, each is it's own kind. Always was always will be. Please check out the Duck billed platypus....

Third, God created man.... in His own image or "our" own image, meaning the trinity. So animals and plants..... in their own kind.... man.... in God's own image.
This is screaming that man is different that animals and plants.

Fourth, In my opinion, any one who believes God can create this huge universe and all it's wonders..... WHY would he want to do it over the time frame given by the "theory" ( which is still only and always ever will be a theory, due to the fact that it cannot and will not ever be proven) of satan's evolution.