When I/we read the Old Testament, we can clearly see God and the Holy Spirit but to a lot of people, the 2nd Person isn't as visible. I see Him plain as day and I was wondering if others see Him as clearly as I do. If anyone else sees Him in a clear light would you please tell us where, thank you.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
The 2nd Person of the Trinity
- Thread starter John D
- Start date
Hey All,
You are very observant John D. What is thought to be a pre-birth appearance of Jesus is called a theophany. I can remember at least four.
1. The first is obvious, at least to me, that is in Genesis 3 where He is seen by Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.
2. Possibly Melchizedek. He was a king of a place called Salem. Gen. 14. Salem means peace. ( Also mentioned in Ps 110, and Heb. 7. I got help for this. I just couldn't remember the Hebrews reference.) Hebrews 7:3 is why this might be a theophany.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Who but Jesus could fit this description?
3. Jacob's wrestling incident in Genesis 32. The jist of it is Jacob wrestled all night with this guy. Finally, at dawn, the antagonist touched Jacob's leg and it became out of joint. ( I love Jacob. He had to be scrappy. He wouldn't give up.) He continues to wrestle until the antagonist blessed him. (Somewhere in that match Jacob had to realize this was no ordinary person.) Here is what verses 28-30 says:
Genesis 32:28-30 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jacob's name is changed to Israel, and Jacob ( now Israel) said he has seen God face to face. I believe him.
4. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, in
Daniel 3. Let's just look at the passage:
Daniel 3:23-25 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
"The fourth is like the Son of God." Nebuchadnezzar is our witness. Nuff said!
Those are the four I know about off-hand. It is hard to argue against them. Who else would fit the descriptions? Does anybody know of others?
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
You are very observant John D. What is thought to be a pre-birth appearance of Jesus is called a theophany. I can remember at least four.
1. The first is obvious, at least to me, that is in Genesis 3 where He is seen by Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.
2. Possibly Melchizedek. He was a king of a place called Salem. Gen. 14. Salem means peace. ( Also mentioned in Ps 110, and Heb. 7. I got help for this. I just couldn't remember the Hebrews reference.) Hebrews 7:3 is why this might be a theophany.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Who but Jesus could fit this description?
3. Jacob's wrestling incident in Genesis 32. The jist of it is Jacob wrestled all night with this guy. Finally, at dawn, the antagonist touched Jacob's leg and it became out of joint. ( I love Jacob. He had to be scrappy. He wouldn't give up.) He continues to wrestle until the antagonist blessed him. (Somewhere in that match Jacob had to realize this was no ordinary person.) Here is what verses 28-30 says:
Genesis 32:28-30 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Jacob's name is changed to Israel, and Jacob ( now Israel) said he has seen God face to face. I believe him.
4. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, in
Daniel 3. Let's just look at the passage:
Daniel 3:23-25 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
"The fourth is like the Son of God." Nebuchadnezzar is our witness. Nuff said!
Those are the four I know about off-hand. It is hard to argue against them. Who else would fit the descriptions? Does anybody know of others?
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
1. God is Spirit, John 4:24, not flesh and blood and in the OT either spoke directly to the prophets or by angels and also various objects like a burning bush or an ass for example. Between the OT and NT God was silent towards Israel as when they returned to Israel from the Babylonian captivity they came back as merchants and not shepherds as they were disobedient to God going after other gods, Book of Malachi.
2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21
3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awakenings in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15
Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.
Jesus being the right arm of God who knew no sin. Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Gods Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and teach us. John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Just like the word Trinity you are not going to find the exact words "God Holy Spirit" written in scripture, but scripture explains there is only one God, not three, as God exist in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are each God, meaning equal in power, nature and attributes and worthy of the same praise. This doesn't mean there are three gods as there is only one true God. It also doesn't mean that these are different forms of God as each is its own person. It's hard to wrap our heads around this as we can not fully understand God.
The Holy Spirit appears in both the OT and NT. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirt of God was hovering over the waters. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image. The word "us" means God, Son Jesus and Holy Spirit (Trinity=3) all being before the creation of the world.
The Holy Spirit has power and emotions and is active among His people. Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit (God Holy Spirit). Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, (God Holy Spirit). Now under the dispensation of God's grace we have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we are all one in Him and He in us through that of the Spiritual rebirth from above, John 3:5-7; Acts chapter 2; 1 John 4:12-17.
Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8
Scriptures that reference the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20
2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21
3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awakenings in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15
Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.
Jesus being the right arm of God who knew no sin. Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Gods Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and teach us. John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Just like the word Trinity you are not going to find the exact words "God Holy Spirit" written in scripture, but scripture explains there is only one God, not three, as God exist in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are each God, meaning equal in power, nature and attributes and worthy of the same praise. This doesn't mean there are three gods as there is only one true God. It also doesn't mean that these are different forms of God as each is its own person. It's hard to wrap our heads around this as we can not fully understand God.
The Holy Spirit appears in both the OT and NT. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirt of God was hovering over the waters. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image. The word "us" means God, Son Jesus and Holy Spirit (Trinity=3) all being before the creation of the world.
The Holy Spirit has power and emotions and is active among His people. Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit (God Holy Spirit). Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, (God Holy Spirit). Now under the dispensation of God's grace we have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we are all one in Him and He in us through that of the Spiritual rebirth from above, John 3:5-7; Acts chapter 2; 1 John 4:12-17.
Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8
Scriptures that reference the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20
Greetings John D,
Kind regards
Trevor
No, I believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted, sitting at the right hand of God in God the father's throne, and He is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. The OT "Theophanies" were by Angels, for example the "man" who wrestled with Jacob Genesis 32:24-32, Hosea 12:2-5.
Kind regards
Trevor
Hey All,
John D, I want to clarify something for you. For an appearance to be called a theophany the one appearing can only be God.
Theophany - visible manifestation to humankind
of God
This is never an angel.
I have backed up the four examples I gave you with Scripture. I really dig that you are trying to find Jesus in the Old Testament. He is there, if you look.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
John D, I want to clarify something for you. For an appearance to be called a theophany the one appearing can only be God.
Theophany - visible manifestation to humankind
of God
This is never an angel.
I have backed up the four examples I gave you with Scripture. I really dig that you are trying to find Jesus in the Old Testament. He is there, if you look.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
God is the Holy Spirt reckoned as the Spirit of the Father . The one witness of two that God has spoken. God using the temporal dying Jesus strengthened to do the will of the Father "the dynamic dual" two working as one
Three which is used to denote the end of a matter. Three is a crowd.
Greetings again John D,
Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology
Theophany
"Manifestation of God that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period often, but not always, in human form. Some would also include in this term Christophanies (preincarnate appearances of Christ) and angelophanies (appearances of angels). In the latter category are found the appearances of the angel of the Lord, which some have taken to be Christophanies, reasoning that since the angel of the Lord speaks for God in the first person ( Gen 16:10 ) and the human addressed often attributes the experience to God directly ( Gen 16:13 ), the angel must therefore be the Lord or the preincarnate Christ. Yet, though the angel is clearly identified with the Lord, he is distinguished from him (he is called "angel, " meaning "messenger" similar patterns of identification and distinction can be seen in Genesis Genesis 19:1 Genesis 19:21 ; Genesis 31:11 Genesis 31:13 ; Exodus 3:2 Exodus 3:4 ; Judges 2:1-5 ; Judges 6:11-12 Judges 6:14 ; Judges 13:3 Judges 13:6 Judges 13:8-11 Judges 13:13 Judges 13:15-17 Judges 13:20-23 ; Zech 3:1-6 ; 12:8 ). In the ancient oriental world, a king's messenger spoke in the name of the king. Any insult rendered him was interpreted as an insult to the king himself (cf. Hanun's treatment of David's embassy, 2 Sam 10:1-4 ; 1 Chron 19:2-6 ). There seems, therefore, no necessity to posit a theophany for the angel of the Lord. In Joshua 5:13-6:5, the conquest narrative is interrupted by the abrupt appearance of a being who calls himself the "commander of the army of the Lord" (5:14). To interpret this event as an encounter with God or with the preincarnate Christ forces the text. Angels were sent on missions of this kind ( Judges 6:11 ; 13:3 ), and some were identified as captains over heavenly armies ( Daniel 10:5 Daniel 10:20 ; 12:1 ). While there are no indisputable Christophanies in the Old Testament, every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, both in matters of grace and judgment."
My understanding is that none of the appearances were Christophanies (preincarnate appearances of Christ), but most were angelophanies (appearances of angels).
Kind regards
Trevor
I did a browse and came across the following article, and I thought that this was both balanced and interesting.
Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology
Theophany
"Manifestation of God that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period often, but not always, in human form. Some would also include in this term Christophanies (preincarnate appearances of Christ) and angelophanies (appearances of angels). In the latter category are found the appearances of the angel of the Lord, which some have taken to be Christophanies, reasoning that since the angel of the Lord speaks for God in the first person ( Gen 16:10 ) and the human addressed often attributes the experience to God directly ( Gen 16:13 ), the angel must therefore be the Lord or the preincarnate Christ. Yet, though the angel is clearly identified with the Lord, he is distinguished from him (he is called "angel, " meaning "messenger" similar patterns of identification and distinction can be seen in Genesis Genesis 19:1 Genesis 19:21 ; Genesis 31:11 Genesis 31:13 ; Exodus 3:2 Exodus 3:4 ; Judges 2:1-5 ; Judges 6:11-12 Judges 6:14 ; Judges 13:3 Judges 13:6 Judges 13:8-11 Judges 13:13 Judges 13:15-17 Judges 13:20-23 ; Zech 3:1-6 ; 12:8 ). In the ancient oriental world, a king's messenger spoke in the name of the king. Any insult rendered him was interpreted as an insult to the king himself (cf. Hanun's treatment of David's embassy, 2 Sam 10:1-4 ; 1 Chron 19:2-6 ). There seems, therefore, no necessity to posit a theophany for the angel of the Lord. In Joshua 5:13-6:5, the conquest narrative is interrupted by the abrupt appearance of a being who calls himself the "commander of the army of the Lord" (5:14). To interpret this event as an encounter with God or with the preincarnate Christ forces the text. Angels were sent on missions of this kind ( Judges 6:11 ; 13:3 ), and some were identified as captains over heavenly armies ( Daniel 10:5 Daniel 10:20 ; 12:1 ). While there are no indisputable Christophanies in the Old Testament, every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, both in matters of grace and judgment."
My understanding is that none of the appearances were Christophanies (preincarnate appearances of Christ), but most were angelophanies (appearances of angels).
Kind regards
Trevor
Carry_Your_Name
Member
There were a couple of "theophanies" in Genesis and Daniel, meaning visible appearance of God in form of a man:
The Lord appeared to him (Abraham) by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men (God and two angels) were standing by him. (Gen. 18:1-2)
Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day ... Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”(Gen. 32:22-32)
Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.” (Dan. 3:25)
“I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they (angels) brought Him (Son of Man) near before Him (God the Ancient of Days). (Dan. 7:13)
Greetings "Carry_Your_Name",
Hosea 12:2–5 (KJV): 2 The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him. 3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God: 4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us; 5 Even the LORD God of hosts; the LORD is his memorial.
Kind regards
Trevor
Somehow an Angel is involved:
Hosea 12:2–5 (KJV): 2 The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him. 3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God: 4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us; 5 Even the LORD God of hosts; the LORD is his memorial.
Kind regards
Trevor
Carry_Your_Name
Member
It was an Angel of God that appeared to Moses as well, but that was God himself nontheless, not a mere messenger:
Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.” So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses! (Ex. 3:1-4)
This is the only time where God revealed his personal name - YHWH. He intentionally concealed it to Jacob when Jacob asked about his name, but he revealed it to Moses. I don't think any angel can be called YHWH.
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ (Ex. 3:14)
Greetings again "Carry_Your_Name",
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.
Kind regards
Trevor
Please refer to the article I quoted earlier. A messenger is a messenger, despite the unusual feature that the Angel speaks in the 1st Person.
Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense, and I also like the interesting spelling of his time and the specific spelling “I wilbe”:
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.
Kind regards
Trevor
I would offer. . .God has no form. He does not need it.
Dying faithless (no faith as it is written) mankind seeks after a sign (form) before they will trust in a invisible God not seen. Because dying mankind refuses to believe in an invisible God not seen. . . revealed through his book of law the gospel. They looking for a fleshly God invites the wrath of God who is not a man in any way shape or form.
In that way yoked with him His Spirit works from within. We can cry out Abba Father
Roman 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen
He sends his messengers called apostle. Not a fake word angel
The Hebrew word Malkakh is messenger not angel , how beautiful are the feet of men sent with the gospel.
Angel is a fake word needed to develop communing with to the dead. a false doctrine as an oral tradition of men. Used to seek to be worshiped or venerated. lording it over the non venerable. Jesus said they have their reward five minutes of empty fame (shame)
Today they are called by some patron saints. Many religions use the idea of disembodied familiar spirit gods coming down in the likeness of men them.
Communing with disembodied workers with familiar spirits. It began in the Old Testament. Rachel is shown hiding from her father the idol images needed to put a face of the legion (Satan) by which she did commune with the dead Seduced to believe the lie she thought she was saw him. King Saul also trusting in a legion of god not seen. We know it was a lying sign coming from the king of lying sign to wonder after.
Same with the New Testament the Greek word Angelos translated messenger. Changing the word messenger to angel (fake word) as if there was a secret creation of invisible being that can take on the form of a man (God has no form)
The Lord appeared to them using three men to bring the message. Three is used that several times.to preent the end of the matter.
We pray to one invisible God according to our Holy Father.
Mathew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name
The is idea of angels would seem to take away the glory of God who again does working us strengthening. Why give it the glory of God to a creation not spoken of?
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels (messengers) unawares.
Can't entertain someone not seen. Need Zoom for that. Sends them out two by two
