The Evangelical Covenant Church

[cyberjosh]

I had never heard of this Church before today but the more and more I read about it, the more I like it. How I stumbled across it is I was studying Scandinavian religious history (I've inhereited about 70% Norwegian from both sides of my family) and Scandinavia was a huge place for the Reformation that complimented Luther's reforms. As a result, most of Scandinavia was Lutheran and several revivals happened over the years. Apparently this Church (Evangelical Covenant Church) had its origins in a late 1800s movement in Sweden that moved to America. The Church had Lutheran background. And even though Lutheran Churches aren't my favortie I wouldn't mind going to one - my Grandparents went to a Lutheran Church (being the last in a long line of family tradition) when I was a kid, but now they go to a more modern church that seems to mix the best aspects of both Baptist beliefs and charismatic enthusiasm with firm Biblical base (sorry - that was tangent).

Anyway, I read their (the The Evangelical Covenant Church) doctrinal beliefs and I like how they remain firm in the Bible because of the traditional Lutheran beliefs but are more liberated in the sense of not being legalistic like some other Lutheran denominations have. Infact one of the founding Swedish theologians for this denomination, Paul Petter Waldenström, was contemporary to another Swedish preacher/leader named Læstadius who (though his teachings were good) eventually founded a demonination that (by succesional corruption - meaning the people after him messed it all up), while it had ties with Paul Petter Waldenström's revival in Sweden, went the other direction and is today one of the most legalistic Luthern Churches in America and (not meaning to offend my Catholic brethren too much) is almost worse in their Church government than the Catholics are in their dedication to the Pope (they believe they must consult the "elders in Sweden" for all important affairs - prefered over what the Bible says sometimes): The Old Apostolic Lutheran Church. Look here for a debunking/exposing of their beliefs. They hold that only their denomination can be saved. Sounds familiar...

Yet on the other hand the The Evangelical Covenant Church seems to have prospered. To me that seems to tell me that of the Godly movements started in Scandinavia (of which I owe my family's Christian heritage to one, or a conglomerate, of them) that out of that movement begun by Paul Petter Waldenström and a similar movement by his contemporary Læstadius (whom the Old Apostolic lutherans venerate) God seems to have blessed one immensely and yet let the other corrupt itself. Its an intersting observation really, because it helps me see how God moved in history. And if you've never done research on how denominations were started - you should. It's facinating.

From what I've heard of The Evangelical Covenant Church it sounds like a Church I would not mind joining. Have you heard anything about it? I'm curious.

Tell me your thoughts.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Here are two links which talk about the Church:

http://www.seattlequest.org/ecc.html

http://www.covchurch.org/

 

[stranger]

cybershark5886 wrote:

I had never heard of this Church before today but the more and more I read about it, the more I like it. How I stumbled across it is I was studying Scandinavian religious history (I've inhereited about 70% Norwegian from both sides of my family) and Scandinavia was a huge place for the Reformation that complimented Luther's reforms. As a result, most of Scandinavia was Lutheran and several revivals happened over the years. Apparently this Church (Evangelical Covenant Church) had its origins in a late 1800s movement in Sweden that moved to America. The Church had Lutheran background. And even though Lutheran Churches aren't my favortie I wouldn't mind going to one - my Grandparents went to a Lutheran Church (being the last in a long line of family tradition) when I was a kid, but now they go to a more modern church that seems to mix the best aspects of both Baptist beliefs and charismatic enthusiasm with firm Biblical base (sorry - that was tangent).

Anyway, I read their (the The Evangelical Covenant Church) doctrinal beliefs and I like how they remain firm in the Bible because of the traditional Lutheran beliefs but are more liberated in the sense of not being legalistic like some other Lutheran denominations have. Infact one of the founding Swedish theologians for this denomination, Paul Petter Waldenström, was contemporary to another Swedish preacher/leader named Læstadius who (though his teachings were good) eventually founded a demonination that (by succesional corruption - meaning the people after him messed it all up), while it had ties with Paul Petter Waldenström's revival in Sweden, went the other direction and is today one of the most legalistic Luthern Churches in America and (not meaning to ofFend my Catholic brethren too much) is almost worse in their Church government than the Catholics are in their dedication to the Pope (they believe they must consult the "elders in Sweden" for all important affairs - prefered over what the Bible says sometimes): The Old Apostolic Lutheran Church. Look here for a debunking/exposing of their beliefs. They hold that only their denomination can be saved. Sounds familiar...

Yet on the other hand the The Evangelical Covenant Church seems to have prospered. To me that seems to tell me that of the Godly movements started in Scandinavia (of which I owe my family's Christian heritage to one, or a conglomerate, of them) that out of that movement begun by Paul Petter Waldenström and a similar movement by his contemporary Læstadius (whom the Old Apostolic lutherans venerate) God seems to have blessed one immensely and yet let the other corrupt itself. Its an intersting observation really, because it helps me see how God moved in history. And if you've never done research on how denominations were started - you should. It's facinating.

Hi Josh,

Interesting article as I have met some Læstadians and attended a couple of their services in Finland. Apparently there was a revival started by Læstadius and the story I heard goes like this. Lars went to be a Pastor in a small town and the people were not keen to attend - perhaps only one or two then one day nobody came. Læstadius, a Lutheran at the time(?) resolved to preach anyway despite the empty church hall. What he did not know was that a drunk had fallen asleep in the pew and had heard him preaching. The drunk spread the word that there was a mad preacher preaching to an empty church - the next meeting was packed and a revival started. This was the gist of it.

The Læstadians reminded me a lot of the brethren. They were 'exclusive' in what they believed so that would make them like exclusive brethren. Anyway on one occassion we visited a couple who were very nice and some young people arrived who were also Læstadians. They were plannng to go out and do something together and weren't quite sure about what to do. They were yanks and this happened in Finland. So I suggested they go to a movie and the guy I was talking to said: 'I've never been to a movie' - unbelievable! I had met some Amersican teenagers that had never been to a movie! That left a great impression on me - they had been spared all the rubbish that Hollywood has come out with. Amazing.

The Læstadians have annual meeting and pretty much keep to themselves - they did not strike me as that different - it did come through that they were exclusive and did not mix with other denominations.

 

[cyberjosh]

Thanks for the feedback stranger. That is interesting. On what occasion, and how long ago, did you go to Finland? Do you understand their language?

As for Læstadius he was indeed a Lutheran and he actually differed on major point with Waldenström about seperating from the Church. Læstadius liked Waldenström's teachings but disapproved of him seperating from the State Church (which was Lutheran). The Læstadians were a subgroup which was tolerated inside the canonical Lutheran State Church of Sweden.

As for their beliefs, surely they may seem conservative (and thus appealing on some level) but that doesn't say much about their doctrine, beliefs, or true spiritual state. Most Amish haven't seen movies, for example, but they aren't the most Spirit filled group of Christians either (though I've never particularly heard anything bad of Amish either - no more than monks or nuns). Largely it seems they either hold to the traditional "exclusive" beliefs of those who tweaked Læstadius teachings, or even sometimes use Læstadius' teachings themselves, or they merely let those in authority guide them by such traditional beliefs. Perhaps it hasn't grown as bad in Scandinavia as it has over here in America though. It's an intersting thought.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[stranger]

Thanks for the feedback stranger. That is interesting. On what occasion, and how long ago, did you go to Finland? Do you understand their language?

As for Læstadius he was indeed a Lutheran and he actually differed on major point with Waldenström about seperating from the Church. Læstadius liked Waldenström's teachings but disapproved of him seperating from the State Church (which was Lutheran). The Læstadians were a subgroup which was tolerated inside the canonical Lutheran State Church of Sweden.

As for their beliefs, surely they may seem conservative (and thus appealing on some level) but that doesn't say much about their doctrine, beliefs, or true spiritual state. Most Amish haven't seen movies, for example, but they aren't the most Spirit filled group of Christians either (though I've never particularly heard anything bad of Amish either - no more than monks or nuns). Largely it seems they either hold to the traditional "exclusive" beliefs of those who tweaked Læstadius teachings, or even sometimes use Læstadius' teachings themselves, or they merely let those in authority guide them by such traditional beliefs. Perhaps it hasn't grown as bad in Scandinavia as it has over here in America though. It's an intersting thought.

God Bless,

~Josh

hi,
I was born there and returned to Finland in 1980's. I stayed for 13 years and then moved back to Australia. Yes I speak finnish but never went to school there. The Lutheran church is still the state church as far as I know in Finland. Those who belong to it - 88% of population - pay church tax straight out of their wages. There are two registers: the church register and the civil register. In the past church graveyards were kept separate from graveyards of those who thought otherwise. While all this might sound strange most people had to go to confirmation before they could get married . . . and all in all while the church is/was 'nominal' it has been beneficial for Finland as a country and Scandinavia in general. (Scandinavia sometimes includes Finland and sometimes doesn't depending on how it is defined)

 

[cyberjosh]

hi,
I was born there and returned to Finland in 1980's. I stayed for 13 years and then moved back to Australia. Yes I speak finnish but never went to school there.

Hmmm...

Jeg ikke snakker Finsk. Men jeg snakker litt Norsk og Dansk. Jeg har en gammel Dansk bok frå 1754 som jeg studerer for sjov.

Ha det,

~Josh

 

[stranger]

hi,
I was born there and returned to Finland in 1980's. I stayed for 13 years and then moved back to Australia. Yes I speak finnish but never went to school there.

Hmmm...

Jeg ikke snakker Finsk. Men jeg snakker litt Norsk og Dansk. Jeg har en gammel Dansk bok frå 1754 som jeg studerer for sjov.

Ha det,

~Josh

Tama on vieras kieli!
trans: this is a visitor's (foreign) tongue.

 

[cyberjosh]

Tama on vieras kieli!
trans: this is a visitor's (foreign) tongue.

Were you refering to the language I wrote in as the foreign tongue or the one you wrote that very phrase in (was that Finnish?)? Oh, and did you understand what I wrote? It is indeed interesting to have someone else on the boards who has interests in Scandinavia. 8-)

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Steve]

I heard that the ECC was basically Swedish Luthern---but I don't think there are any in this neck of the woods(NE). I would imagine they are big in the upper Midwest. By the way, does anybody know what lutefisk is? I heard it stinks, but tastes good.

Far as Lutherns go, I personally would avoid ELCA like the plague. They "ordain" women. I think the only ones that are basically believers are the LCMS and the WELS, with a few Swedish bodies in Minnesota, Apostolic Lutherns, Luthern Free Church, etc.