The Nature of God

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I a previous thread I made a statement relating to the Trinity and other potential conclusions that prompted the following request.

If you have a different reasonable conclusion, then please feel free to present it. Apart from the doctrine of the Trinity I have yet to see a position that takes into account all that Scripture states regarding the nature of God.

For this thread, my intent is to have the scriptures opened so that we can take a wholistic look at what is revealed about God and his nature in hopes of coming to a or perhaps some conclusions that we can reconsile with scripture.

 

[Guest]

Romans 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
I've often heard it said that God doesn't sin because He chooses not to. But according to the passage below; Jesus didn't sin, not because he chose not to; but because he was a chip off the olde block.

†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

In other words: God doesn't sin because He chooses not to; but because it simply isn't in His nature.

†. Jas 1:13 . . Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Guest]

.
I've often heard it said that God doesn't sin because He chooses not to. But according to the passage below; Jesus didn't sin, not because he chose not to; but because he was a chip off the olde block.

†. Jas 1:13 . . Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man.

Incorrect. Phil 2:6-7 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Not only did Jesus lower himself to a servant, Jesus was also tempted more than once. We know this from scripture. When it says God cannot be tempted with evil, they are talking about God the Father, not Jesus.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

When Jas 1:13 says God cannot be tempted with evil, they are talking about God the Father, not Jesus.

People tempt God the Father all the time: it's very common.

†. Ex 17:1-2 . . Then all the congregation of the children of Israel set out on their journey from the Wilderness of Sin, according to the commandment of The Lord, and camped in Rephidim; but there was no water for the people to drink. Therefore the people contended with Moses, and said: Give us water, that we may drink. So Moses said to them: Why do you contend with me? Why do you tempt The Lord?

†. Deut 6:16 . . You shall not tempt The Lord your God as you tempted Him in Massah.

†. Mal 3:15 . . So now we call the proud blessed, for those who do wickedness are raised up; they even tempt God and get away with it!

†. Acts 15:10 . . Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Jas 1:13 is very simple. It's just saying that no matter how mightily somebody pressures God; he'll never react sinfully. It just isn't in His nature to react sinfully; and since Jesus is a chip off the olde block, he'll never react sinfully either.

†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Incorrect

You really ought to exercise a bit more discretion with your choice of words lest the hapless day should arrive when you are forced to eat them. Unless you sincerely believe your own interpretations of scripture are 110% infallible; never tell people theirs are wrong.

†. Matt 12:35-37 . . I say to you, that every thoughtless word that men shall speak, they shall render account for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Guest]

People tempt God the Father all the time: it's very common.

People tempting God and God being tempted are not the same.

You really ought to exercise a bit more discretion with your choice of words lest the hapless day should arrive when you are forced to eat them. Unless you sincerely believe your own interpretations of scripture are 110% infallible; never tell people theirs are wrong.

Well, you were wrong. Jesus did choose not to sin. He chose to follow God. Read Matt 4.

 

[WIP]

People tempting God and God being tempted are not the same.

Excellent point.

 

[Sinthesis]

People tempting God and God being tempted are not the same.

Excellent point.

Just as this applies to the Father, it would also apply to Jesus, and in this way They share the same incorruptible Divine nature.

 

[Guest]

People tempting God and God being tempted are not the same.

Excellent point.

Just as this applies to the Father, it would also apply to Jesus, and in this way They share the same incorruptible Divine nature.

Incorrect. God the Father being "tempted" and Jesus being tempted are not the same. Jesus lowered himself to a servant and prayed TOO the Father for strength over temptation.

 

[Sinthesis]

People tempting God and God being tempted are not the same.

Excellent point.

Just as this applies to the Father, it would also apply to Jesus, and in this way They share the same incorruptible Divine nature.

Incorrect. God the Father being "tempted" and Jesus being tempted are not the same. Jesus lowered himself to a servant and prayed TOO the Father for strength over temptation.

Where in scripture did Jesus pray to the Father for strength over temptation?

 

[Webers_Home]

.
According to Luke 1:26-35, John 1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, and 1John 4:9; Jesus was born of God. In point of fact, Jesus is listed in the New Testament not just as a son of God; but as God's sole begotten son. So then, since that's supposed to be true, then the statement below applies to Jesus.

†. 1John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

In addition; according to John 3:34, Jesus wasn't just filled with God's Spirit; no, he was given God's Spirit without measure or limit.

Also, according to Col 2:9, it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.

Since we're looking at not just divine quality per se; but rather at "the" divine quality, then we're looking at the quality of God's divinity; which I think pretty safe to assume is impeccable. I seriously doubt even the Devil himself could sin were he brimming with not just a percentage; but with all the quality of God's divinity while over-maxed with God's Spirit at the same time.

So then, considering everything said about him; it was impossible for God's sole begotten son to sin. The Watch Tower Society's claim that he could have failed or that he could have sinned, is about as Biblically competent as a Spaulding catcher's mitt claiming to have been worn by Yogi Berra during a game against the Red Sox played on Pluto.

People online sometimes complain that Jesus had an unfair advantage. He was born of God fully incapable of sin; while the rest of us are born of Adam just the opposite. Well; there's a fix for that situation. According to John 3:3-8 there's a second birth available to whoever wants it-- a birth via God's Spirit instead of via Adam all over again.

Buen Camino
/

 

[iLOVE]

We must not forget about the wrath of God. There are strong warnings for lukewarm christians and sexual immorality.

Romans 1:18-28, Revelation 3:16

 

[Webers_Home]

.

We must not forget about the wrath of God.

The wrath of God is interesting. For example;

†. Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes- - cruel; with both wrath and fierce anger

The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is `ebrah (eb-raw') which indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: Jesus won't be weeping big wet crocodile tears while he's punishing people at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated with extreme prejudice; viz: he'll be furious against them. (cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)

†. Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation

"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. "fiery" speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're actually red in the face.

There are people out there in cyberspace who have been so brain-washed by heresy, greeting cards, religious art, Broadway plays, and Hollywood movies that they have no concept of the magnitude of the fecal storm they're headed into.

Buen Camino
/

 

[WIP]

For me, Philippians 2 explains it. Jesus, although God, was also a man. And as a man was capable of feeling temptation. But, being perfectly one with God he also was able to perfectly resist temptation. In this way, God was not the one tempted but the man, Jesus, was tempted.

In a similar way one could ask the question, "Can God die?" I would say absolutely not! But, Jesus the man did in fact die by crucifixion and later resurrected.

Am I making sense?

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[gr8grace]

For me, Philippians 2 explains it. Jesus, although God, was also a man. And as a man was capable of feeling temptation. But, being perfectly one with God he also was able to perfectly resist temptation. In this way, God was not the one tempted but the man, Jesus, was tempted.

In a similar way one could ask the question, "Can God die?" I would say absolutely not! But, Jesus the man did in fact die by crucifixion and later resurrected.

Am I making sense?

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

You make perfect sense.

100% human and 100% God....the Hypostatic union. In the person of the incarnate Christ are two natures, divine and human, inseparably united without mixture or loss of separate identity, without loss or transfer of properties or attributes, the union being personal and eternal.

In Bible study we have to discriminate when Jesus(humanity) Christ(Deity) was speaking in or about His humanity or Deity.

 

[Guest]

Just as this applies to the Father, it would also apply to Jesus, and in this way They share the same incorruptible Divine nature.

Incorrect. God the Father being "tempted" and Jesus being tempted are not the same. Jesus lowered himself to a servant and prayed TOO the Father for strength over temptation.

Where in scripture did Jesus pray to the Father for strength over temptation?

Let's start with the Lord's prayer..

“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Also, remember when the Romans were about to take Jesus away to crucify him.
Read Mark 14, if this doesn't humble you..

Jesus Prays in Gethsemane

32 And they went to a place called Gethsemane. And he said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.†33 And he took with him Peter and James and John, and began to be greatly distressed and troubled. 34 And he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death. Remain here and watch.â€[d] 35 And going a little farther, he fell on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36 And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.†37 And he came and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter, “Simon, are you asleep? Could you not watch one hour? 38 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.†39 And again he went away and prayed, saying the same words. 40 And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were very heavy, and they did not know what to answer him. 41 And he came the third time and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? It is enough; the hour has come. The Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise, let us be going; see, my betrayer is at hand.â€

 

[Sinthesis]

For me, Philippians 2 explains it. Jesus, although God, was also a man. And as a man was capable of feeling temptation. But, being perfectly one with God he also was able to perfectly resist temptation. In this way, God was not the one tempted but the man, Jesus, was tempted.

In a similar way one could ask the question, "Can God die?" I would say absolutely not! But, Jesus the man did in fact die by crucifixion and later resurrected.

Am I making sense?

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Did Jesus ever respond to temptation in an ungodly way? Did Jesus ever wrestle within His mind over Satan's offers?

 

[Sinthesis]

Just as this applies to the Father, it would also apply to Jesus, and in this way They share the same incorruptible Divine nature.

Incorrect. God the Father being "tempted" and Jesus being tempted are not the same. Jesus lowered himself to a servant and prayed TOO the Father for strength over temptation.

Where in scripture did Jesus pray to the Father for strength over temptation?

Let's start with the Lord's prayer..

“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
10 Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Also, remember when the Romans were about to take Jesus away to crucify him.
Read Mark 14, if this doesn't humble you..

Jesus Prays in Gethsemane

32 And they went to a place called Gethsemane. And he said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 And he took with him Peter and James and John, and began to be greatly distressed and troubled. 34 And he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death. Remain here and watch.”[d] 35 And going a little farther, he fell on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36 And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” 37 And he came and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter, “Simon, are you asleep? Could you not watch one hour? 38 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 39 And again he went away and prayed, saying the same words. 40 And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were very heavy, and they did not know what to answer him. 41 And he came the third time and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? It is enough; the hour has come. The Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise, let us be going; see, my betrayer is at hand.”

The Lord's Prayer is instruction in how we should pray, but not necessarily how Jesus prayed, unless you think Luke 11:4 also refers to Jesus' sins.

 

[Elijah674]

For me, Philippians 2 explains it. Jesus, although God, was also a man. And as a man was capable of feeling temptation. But, being perfectly one with God he also was able to perfectly resist temptation. In this way, God was not the one tempted but the man, Jesus, was tempted.

In a similar way one could ask the question, "Can God die?" I would say absolutely not! But, Jesus the man did in fact die by crucifixion and later resurrected.

Am I making sense?

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Did Jesus ever respond to temptation in an ungodly way? Did Jesus ever wrestle within His mind over Satan's offers?

Tempted in all points as was man, but NO to the question. James 1:15
[15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

As Adam before sin, He had no propensity to sin. Christ came as the first Adam before sin, yet with the human nature of the second Adam after sin.
Can you handle that? ;)

--Elijah

 

[Guest]

The Lord's Prayer is instruction in how we should pray, but not necessarily how Jesus prayed

Not necessarily how Jesus prayed? But the title of the prayer is the LORD'S prayer.