The real Satan..

[Steve76]

I have just finished reading an interesting book about Satan which I thought was, well, interesting -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Satan-Biography ... 0521604028

The author has taken each instance in scripture that relates to Satan, Devil, Devils, Demon, Demons, and Fallen Angels, broken them down and gone back to the root language to try to interperet thier roles more clearly and without prejudice.
It seems that Satan and his role could well need another looking at..
The book is good and I recommend anyone interested in knowing more about the role of Satan to get a copy as I believe that the common biography of him to be incorrect and inconsistent.

Throughout scripture and time Satan has a few roles given to him by God to carry out:

1) Tester - He continually tests mankind
2) Accuser - He reports his findings to God
3) Governor - He has authority to control his kingdom - the world (kosmos)
4) Punisher - He is to punish those souls that make it into hell

Even though Satan is not a nice character, I think we need to respect and understand exactly what his position in this amazing reality we call life is, and try to realise why God has allowed him such a strong position in the celestial court..

I heard a joke about Satan the other day...

Satan was sitting on a wall outside a Church and he was crying his eyes out! A man walked up to him and aksed him what was wrong...Satan replied "That lot in there are blaming me for their sins!"

 

[seekandlisten]

I have just finished reading an interesting book about Satan which I thought was, well, interesting -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Satan-Biography ... 0521604028

The author has taken each instance in scripture that relates to Satan, Devil, Devils, Demon, Demons, and Fallen Angels, broken them down and gone back to the root language to try to interperet thier roles more clearly and without prejudice.
It seems that Satan and his role could well need another looking at..
The book is good and I recommend anyone interested in knowing more about the role of Satan to get a copy as I believe that the common biography of him to be incorrect and inconsistent.

Throughout scripture and time Satan has a few roles given to him by God to carry out:

1) Tester - He continually tests mankind
2) Accuser - He reports his findings to God
3) Governor - He has authority to control his kingdom - the world (kosmos)
4) Punisher - He is to punish those souls that make it into hell

Even though Satan is not a nice character, I think we need to respect and understand exactly what his position in this amazing reality we call life is, and try to realise why God has allowed him such a strong position in the celestial court..

I heard a joke about Satan the other day...

Satan was sitting on a wall outside a Church and he was crying his eyes out! A man walked up to him and aksed him what was wrong...Satan replied "That lot in there are blaming me for their sins!"

I have a question for you Steve. What do you believe Satan's role to be as portrayed in the bible?? As to the roles you listed. Personally, I would change the wording in #1 from tester to deceiver. I agree with point #3. I however disagree with points #2 and #4. Could you explain you reasoning behind these 2 to me please. Also, do you believe the angels to be created to be lower than us, actually making us higher in rank than Satan and therefore he has no real power over us, the reason why he deceives?? Thanks

 

[Steve76]

I will expand on your points a bit later when I get time but I think I would just like to re-iterate that in my OP I have read a book which looks at the role of Satan throughout scripture. It seems to me that there is much more to his position than 'deceiver' as you state..
I will come back to this with more scripture but one to look at is in the book of Job. Here, Satan's role is as a 'Tester' but you say for me to change it to 'deceiver'? Why? :gah

 

[(THE)]

I think the key word is "role" satan plays many roles,,,,

opposer (satan)

deciever (serpent)

war starter (dragon)

tempter (devil)

false prophet (antichrist)

 

[Steve76]

I think the key word is "role" satan plays many roles,,,,

opposer (satan)

deciever (serpent)

war starter (dragon)

tempter (devil)

false prophet (antichrist)

Yip and we could add these to the roles I have mentioned above..
Plus
Devil = a traducer, a slanderer, a false accuser..

 

[seekandlisten]

I will expand on your points a bit later when I get time but I think I would just like to re-iterate that in my OP I have read a book which looks at the role of Satan throughout scripture. It seems to me that there is much more to his position than 'deceiver' as you state..
I will come back to this with more scripture but one to look at is in the book of Job. Here, Satan's role is as a 'Tester' but you say for me to change it to 'deceiver'? Why? :gah

First it was not my intent for you to change the term, nothing more than personally how my beliefs would describe satan above all as a deceiver. It mainly rests on my belief that satan does not lie he deceives.

If your interested I asked in my thread titled 'christian beliefs' for opinions as to the significance of the story of Job and God allowing Satan to test him. I'd be interested to hear yours.

Now back to the topic at hand.

 

[Steve76]

I will expand on your points a bit later when I get time but I think I would just like to re-iterate that in my OP I have read a book which looks at the role of Satan throughout scripture. It seems to me that there is much more to his position than 'deceiver' as you state..
I will come back to this with more scripture but one to look at is in the book of Job. Here, Satan's role is as a 'Tester' but you say for me to change it to 'deceiver'? Why? :gah

First it was not my intent for you to change the term, nothing more than personally how my beliefs would describe satan above all as a deceiver. It mainly rests on my belief that satan does not lie he deceives.

If your interested I asked in my thread titled 'christian beliefs' for opinions as to the significance of the story of Job and God allowing Satan to test him. I'd be interested to hear yours.

Now back to the topic at hand.

Ah, no problem...

With regards to Satan's role with Job, he was definitely the tester right? Well there is more... :eyebrow

Here, God points out Job's 'God fearing and upright character' to Satan. But then Satan goes on to accuse Job of being unworthy and challenges God to let him test Job:

KJV
1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

So, in this scripture, Satan's role, as ordained by God, is to test and he also accuses..
But also:

2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

He actually inflicts physical harm and sickness or disease. Much similar to the roles of demons in the NT..

What you think? There is much more to Satan here than just being a deceiver or tempter right?
I'll dig some more out in time... ;)

 

[seekandlisten]

What you put forth doesn’t suggest to me scripturally that he is anything more than a deceiver in regards to the story of Job. Do you agree with the statement that the angels were created lower then mankind, meaning satan has no power over us?? Who gets blamed for all our problems? Why do we say, in numerous variations, that God is responsible for the pain and suffering in the world. Is this not the work of satan in deceiving people to think that it is somehow God’s fault for all the wrong in the world today?

I think Satan will take whatever power we give him. What is your belief in regards to satan’s status before his fall as to his role before we were created? What do you believe to be the reason for satan being cast out of God’s Kingdom?

 

[Steve76]

Satan as Governor of the world (kosmos)

So, as we have seen so far in scripture Satan is an accuser, tempter, tester and not to forget, a liar, and these can be found in Genesis and the Book of Job. In Job, he also inflicts sickness and disease as he tries and tests Job.

Another role of Satan is 'The Governor' (god of this world)

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
But..
At the cross, Satan lost access to the throne of God. He is now limited to the earth and its atmosphere. He no longer has the ability to accuse us before God, as he did Job. Praise the Lord!

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

So now we can have victory over his role as accuser but not so much for those 'children of disobedience'. I think this could mean that Satan, even though defeated at the cross, still flexes muscle over the world, but now he is angry! It changes the situation as Christ defeated Satan on the cross, but, he is still around, at work in the world..

I Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour

So, in these scriptures we can see Satan as Governor of the world which changed after the cross but it seems that he still has some power over the world as we see in the warnings.

We also see Satan being called our 'Adversary' who is now angry and like a roaring lion!

Just to summarize so far. Satan's roles are mentioned as being:
1)Tempter
2)Tester
3)Accuser
4)Deceiver
5)Disease giver
6)Adversary
7)Governor of the world

He is also mentioned as the prince of the air, power of darkness, prince of demons, serpent, angel of the abyss, belial, dragon etc.. :o

Satan indeed has many different roles and titles throughout scripture, and an interesting one, which actually may turn out to be totally incorrect, is that of:

Lucifer - The morning star!

 

[Steve76]

Satan = Lucifer??

So just to carry on from my last post, we have come to Satan's apparent role as:
Lucifer - The morning star..

I thought I would write this thread because I have read up on the character of Satan and each role he has played throughout time and scripture and thought it was interesting enough to share..

We have seen a large amount of Satan's roles so far and this just goes to show that we should realise that he is not just a Tempter or Deciever...he is much more than that!

One of the most interesting questions I came across was whether Satan is Lucifer and I seem to have to answer....no. What do others think here?
It looks like Lucifer is the King of Babylon, a man, he gets buried with the worms, has a physical body!

Satan, characterized as Lucifer, is a false reference, a mis-interperetation, one that has become grounded in Orthodox Christian belief.
What seems to have happened is a mis-translation which has stuck! I really think that it should be addressed so here is some information regarding this error:

KJV
Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

(extract from http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2215)
The word “Lucifer†is used in the King James Version only once, in Isaiah 14:12: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!†The Hebrew word translated “Lucifer†is helel (or heylel), from the root, hâlâl, meaning “to shine†or “to bear light.†Keil and Delitzsch noted that “t derives its name in other ancient languages also from its striking brilliancy, and is here called ben-shachar (son of the dawn)... (1982, 7:311). However, the KJV translators did not translate helel as Lucifer because of something inherent in the Hebrew term itself. Instead, they borrowed the name from Jerome’s translation of the Bible (A.D. 383-405) known as the Latin Vulgate. Jerome, likely believing that the term was describing the planet Venus, employed the Latin term “Lucifer†(“light-bearingâ€) to designate “the morning star†(Venus). Only later did the suggestion originate that Isaiah 14:12ff. was speaking of the devil. Eventually, the name Lucifer came to be synonymous with Satan. But is Satan “Luciferâ€?

No, he is not. The context into which verse 12 fits begins in verse 4 where God told Isaiah to “take up this parable against the king of Babylon, and say, ‘How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!’†In his commentary on Isaiah, Albert Barnes explained that God’s wrath was kindled against the king because the ruler “intended not to acknowledge any superior either in heaven or earth, but designed that himself and his laws should be regarded as supreme†(1950, 1:272).

As a result of his egotistical self-deification, the pagan monarch eventually would experience both the collapse of his kingdom and the loss of his life—an ignominious end that is described in vivid and powerful terms. “Sheol from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming,†the prophet proclaimed to the once-powerful king. And when the ruler finally descends into his eternal grave, captives of that hidden realm will taunt him by saying, “Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms?†(vs. 16). He is denominated as a “man†(vs. 16) who would die in disrepute and whose body would be buried, not in a king’s sarcophagus, but in pits reserved for the downtrodden masses (vss. 19-20). Worms would eat his body, and hedgehogs would trample his grave (vss. 11,23).

It was in this context that Isaiah referred to the king of Babylon as “the morning star†(“son of the morningâ€; “son of the dawnâ€) to depict the once-shining-but-now-dimmed, once-lofty-but-now-diminished, status of the (soon to be former) ruler. In his Bible Commentary, E.M. Zerr observed that such phrases were “...used figuratively in this verse to symbolize the dignity and splendor of the Babylonian monarch. His complete overthrow was likened to the falling of the morning star†(1954, 3:265). This kind of phraseology should not be surprising since “n the O.T., the demise of corrupt national powers is frequently depicted under the imagery of falling heavenly luminaries (cf. Isa. 13:10; Ezek. 32:7), hence, quite appropriately in this context the Babylonian monarch is described as a fallen star [cf. ASV]†(Jackson, 1987, 23:15).

Nowhere within the context of Isaiah 14, however, is Satan depicted as Lucifer. In fact, quite the opposite is true. In his commentary on Isaiah, Burton Coffman wrote: “We are glad that our version (ASV) leaves the word Lucifer out of this rendition, because...Satan does not enter into this passage as a subject at all†(1990, p. 141). The Babylonian ruler was to die and be buried—fates neither of which Satan is destined to endure. The king was called “a man†whose body was to be eaten by worms, but Satan, as a spirit, has no physical body. The monarch lived in and abided over a “golden city†(vs. 4), but Satan is the monarch of a kingdom of spiritual darkness (cf. Ephesians 6:12). And so on.

The context presented in Isaiah 14:4-16 not only does not portray Satan as Lucifer, but actually militates against it. Keil and Delitzsch firmly proclaimed that “Lucifer,†as a synonym, “is a perfectly appropriate one for the king of Babel, on account of the early date of the Babylonian culture, which reached back as far as the grey twilight of primeval times, and also because of its predominate astrological character†(1982, p. 312). They then correctly concluded that “Lucifer, as a name given to the devil, was derived from this passage...without any warrant whatever, as relating to the apostasy and punishment of the angelic leaders†(pp. 312-313)

Lucifer = The morning star - Venus.

The King of Babylon, a mortal man, has been referred to - The morning star in Isaiah 14, not Satan. What do others think on this?