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Bible Study Thou shalt not kill?

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Papa Zoom

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I'd like to take a closer look at how to view this particular verse: Exodus 20:13

I'm no expert but I am studied. I read a lot and my undergraduate work was done at a Christian college where we were required to take a full two years of Bible courses. I've done a lot of thinking over the years about how we understand this collection of books we call God's word (which I believe it is).

The word "kill" is mistranslated. It means murder. That fact is a slam dunk. But there is a bigger issue at hand. I like to put it this way (and I'm hoping to get feedback on what I'm about to say - positive or negative - in the form of discussion - not debate). That's per the rules.

The Bible you hold does not contain the words from God. (ok, that sounds odd but the words in the Bible you hold are translations of copies of copies etc AND there are often not words or concepts that will translate word for word. So, when you read a word in say the NKJV or the RSV or KJV or ESV, you can't say, "See, God said it right here!!!" and then point to some passage.

Stop saying 'The Bible Says' because the Bible doesn't say anything. If you think it does, don't read it. Just hold it and you won't hear anything. Here's the truth, you read it and YOU filter it and YOU come away with a meaning.

The person I trust LEAST when it comes to understanding God's Word is ME.

I'll probably say more on these things in the future.

So, when it comes to the verse, "Thou shalt not kill" it behooves us to dig a bit deeper.

Who wrote the words? What's the context? Who is the target audience? What do we know of the original word and do we know with certainty the author's intent (as opposed to our filtered biased thinking)? only after we've explored passages in deeper can we truly have a proper understanding.

Thoughts?
 
I will add the Hebrew Lexicon as provided by Blueletter Bible. I'm sure some may have better sources.

Using literal word for word translation the NASB :

You shall not murder.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7523&t=NASB

רָצַחrâtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, kill, (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er)

  1. to murder, slay, kill
    1. (Qal) to murder, slay
      1. premeditated

      2. accidental

      3. as avenger

      4. slayer (intentional) (participle)
    2. (Niphal) to be slain

    3. (Piel)
      1. to murder, assassinate

      2. murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
    4. (Pual) to be killed
 
Not accepting Thou shall not kill as dont murder.. Puts the scripture in chaos ..in conflict with its self..
Example
Num 35:15 These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.
Num 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
Num 35:17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
Num 35:18 Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
 
Not accepting Thou shall not kill as dont murder.. Puts the scripture in chaos ..in conflict with its self..
Example
Num 35:15 These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.
Num 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
Num 35:17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
Num 35:18 Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.

For Numbers 35:15 the Lexicon uses a different word than in Exodus 20:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5221&t=NASB
 
Good thread Papa Zoom. There is a lot of theology in what you have presented. "Do Not Murder" (ESV) There is the actual deed of murder, and the thought of murder in the mind of someone who has been violated but does not carry it out. Hmm.

I like what John Gill had to say about this verse....
Exodus 20:13
"Thou shalt not kill. Not meaning any sort of creatures, for there are some to be killed for the food and nourishment of men, and others for their safety and preservation; but rational creatures, men, women, and children, any of the human species, of every age, sex, condition, or nation; no man has a right to take away his own life, or the life of another; by this law is forbidden suicide, or self-murder, parricide or murder of parents, homicide or the murder of man; yet killing of men in lawful war, or in defence of a man's self, when his own life is in danger, or the execution of malefactors by the hands or order of the civil magistrate, and killing a man at unawares, without any design, are not to be reckoned breaches of this law; but taking away the life of another through private malice and revenge, and even stabbing of a man's character, and so all things tending to or designed for the taking away of life, and all plots, conspiracies, and contrivances for that purpose, even all sinful anger, undue wrath and envy, rancour of all mind, all malice in thought, word, or deed, are contrary to this precept, see Mat_5:21 and which, on the other hand, requires that men should do all they can for the ease, peace, and preservation of the lives of men."
 
If you ask me, language doesn't bind God or hold any restraint on Him. Study the word from the original linguistics and we can come out of it with more understanding, perhaps greater insight. But God is not restricted by language. Study the Bible and God Himself will teach you be a se of our faith in Him. The Holy Spirit can be the guide. The same Guide I trust assisted in translating the bible in each language it has been translated in. With God even in the confrontations of new translations into a language like the explosion of translations that occured when it was translated into English. Even with those confrontations and corrections, I trust God's hand was in it. Possibly to hone His word and refine out what words were slightly in error.

With that in mind the Holy Spirit is not the only account for the Bible's meanings. The bible often interprets itself. Repeating themes and lessons in the history and in the teachings. As well as repeating older lessons and older history that prophets give, or that Jesus taught. Jesus taught that we are not to murder, and explained it further. But that first aspect confirms from newer text in the New Testiment, what older text in the Old Testiment said about murder. Knowing the original languages these were written in could only add additional insight to this, in my opinion. It would not take away the message behind the words that God breathed into His Word. Into the Scripture.
 
NNS,
I would give a good deal to be fluent in Aramaic, Koine, Greek and ancient Hebrew but in perfect honesty, there are a huge number of men and women, like myself, that wanted to be a doctor, lawyer of another profession that required advanced study but did, just, as I did and escaped some situation that they were not in control of.

I passed all but English Lit. in my eighth grade class and joined the Army where I worked for my GED. I confess, I am a weird bird because I took all the mail courses I could during my eight years in the military but I know that most can, or at least never get around to, take such courses and most, if they do, take what will benefit their income only.

I admire you for your knowledge of those three dead tongues ut most of us must rely on lexicons and they can be tough, at best.
 
The Bible you hold does not contain the words from God. (ok, that sounds odd but the words in the Bible you hold are translations of copies of copies etc AND there are often not words or concepts that will translate word for word. So, when you read a word in say the NKJV or the RSV or KJV or ESV, you can't say, "See, God said it right here!!!" and then point to some passage.

Deep subject, the nature of Gods Words. How they were delivered. Why. Lottsa stuff to think about and sort through.
Stop saying 'The Bible Says' because the Bible doesn't say anything. If you think it does, don't read it. Just hold it and you won't hear anything. Here's the truth, you read it and YOU filter it and YOU come away with a meaning.

I could write volumes on the subject above. Of course we come away with our own quite entirely "subjective" observations. That's one of the most vital lessons about Gods Word, stated for example from Heb. 4:12. The Word is actually a reflection of our own heart, basically of what we think and what is within us. Some of what we reflect might be of God and be somewhat accurate, but never as Perfect as The One Who Delivered The Words. This is kind of a basic principle.
The person I trust LEAST when it comes to understanding God's Word is ME.

Ah, now there you have taken a "proper seat" when engaging. Yes, there is very much cause to distrust what we think.
I'll probably say more on these things in the future.

One of the most strange/bizarre presentations of the scriptures is that there are entire hosts of invisible characters/entities that are presented therein. Devils, Holy Angels, The Spirit of Christ, etc. It's NOT an account of just and only God and mankind. And it gets even more strange when we have to consider the possibility (or the REALITY) of the effect of these characters upon ourselves, if we "buy into" the reality of the narratives. I do. One of my favorite examples being Mark 4:15. Other like scriptures would be Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, etc. Most readers not only don't see this aspect of scriptures, they automatically "reject" this part of Gods presentations as being real and applicable to themselves. Scripture actually sees mankind in STEREO i.e. as more than just "individuals." This makes it extremely hard to "study." Reference not only Mark 4:15 (and other similar scriptures) but also Paul's elaborations on this subject in Romans 7, Romans 9, Romans 11, etc. This part of Apostolic discourse runs quite deep. By the time we get to Revelation the Word has transitioned to entirely allegory and similitude in presentation.
So, when it comes to the verse, "Thou shalt not kill" it behooves us to dig a bit deeper.

Who wrote the words? What's the context? Who is the target audience? What do we know of the original word and do we know with certainty the author's intent (as opposed to our filtered biased thinking)? only after we've explored passages in deeper can we truly have a proper understanding.

Thoughts?

Jesus presented that "we" will live by every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. This eliminates any eradication of Gods Words via "target audience" claims or "historical context" limitations and filters.

What we know about law, in general, is that when we read a LAW, then we have lawless thoughts that arrive to ourselves, internally. We "think" about what it is "like" to break such laws. It's very fascinating. This study of our own internals.

Paul elaborates on this exact subject in Romans 7 for himself. One of the most astounding chapters in the entire Bible imho. But most people pass by the finer nuances of his observations, and don't "get the picture."

Paul shows us that when "LAW" meets "MIND" then lawless thoughts are encountered within. Romans 7:7-13. Jesus for example shows us that these "lawless thoughts" are evil and defiling, not to mention illegal. Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23 and Matt. 5:28.

And upon actually REALIZING this happens, we are ushered into a study of our own INTERNALS. The Word changes it's aspect, from the external, to internal. And some might even happen to question WHY this is so and WHY it happens.

It's quite entirely fascinating.

The lesson on "thou shalt not KILL?" When that LAW meets MIND, and we even think about killing, we are in fact KILLERS, proven as such, within. We can Greek/Hebrew translate all we please, but can we, dare we be HONEST?
 
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NNS,
I would give a good deal to be fluent in Aramaic, Koine, Greek and ancient Hebrew but in perfect honesty, there are a huge number of men and women, like myself, that wanted to be a doctor, lawyer of another profession that required advanced study but did, just, as I did and escaped some situation that they were not in control of.

I passed all but English Lit. in my eighth grade class and joined the Army where I worked for my GED. I confess, I am a weird bird because I took all the mail courses I could during my eight years in the military but I know that most can, or at least never get around to, take such courses and most, if they do, take what will benefit their income only.

Oh that would be so awesome to know those languages, and read the bible with those understandings. I don't know how much I would give, because language is a difficult subject for me, but I'm sure it would be worth it. Studies with language add a lot to our understandings, and lexicons are a good resource for this too.

I admire you for your knowledge of those three dead tongues ut most of us must rely on lexicons and they can be tough, at best.

Thank you so much. I don't think I know that much in the languages though. I admire what you have in your character, in your boldness and your unwavering faith. Whatever experiences that helped you be the man you are, are worth a lot too.
 
That happens to be a frequent prayer of mine, to not be deceived nor to deceive myself...

For there is a way which seems right to a man, but in the end leads to death...
 
In the Scriptures, killing is not always a violation of the 6th commandment. It really depends on two things:

a) who has a right to kill, and

b) what are the seen and foreseen circumstances or events that brought about this death.

First off, regarding who has a right to kill? Only God, whom He allows or appoints, and who He so commands has a right to end someone’s life. However, for the most part, He reserves that right only to Himself. Why? What gives Him this right? Because He is the creator and giver of “bios” life (temporal life) and without Him there is no life, therefore, only He has the ultimate right or authority to take that life and do with it as He pleases just as you have right over a project or object you have made. But as we have seen in the above mentioned passage from Ezekiel, it actually grieves Him when this must take place.

But wait…don’t we create things also. Sort of, but when we create something, we use materials He has already created and secondly it is not alive. But do we still not have the right to destroy it if it is dysfunctional or not to our liking and then to make something else of the materials? Of course we do! I made a wooden cup once, but eventually it swelled, and warped, and no longer could serve its’ purpose. Then one day it split and began to leak, so I threw it into the yard for the kids to play with, and eventually it was destroyed, but that was my choice was it not? I understand that this is not a living thing, but the idea of one creating something, and having absolute control of its destiny is the point being made here. That is why God says, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay!” Only then is vengeance truly justified, for the Lord does not judge by outward appearances but knows the thoughts of the heart and the outcomes of all future actions.

Secondarily, when God says, you shall not kill, that does not mean in an absolute sense, as you will see, for we must first understand what He is saying here, and in order to do that, we must discern what He means here by the word “kill” in the commandment as opposed to what is meant in other places the translators also called “kill”! There are three different words used for killing in the Old Testament. So in order to uncover the circumstances or events under which killing is sometimes allowed, one must take into account the context of the act and which word is being used.

The Hebrew word “rasah” or “rashah”, as it is used here in the 6th Commandment refers most specifically to premeditated murder without just cause. However, it can also be used in the sense of manslaughter, as when one kills by mistake, or without intent, like in the case of Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 4:42, 19:4, Joshua 20:3-5, and elsewhere! Thus in Hebrew the specific meaning of this word must always be determined by its’ context. We must always see it in relation to the surrounding statements. In the commandments it is absolute and the law is conditional…

Sin is a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) and there are actually 613 commandments…the soul that sins it must die is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death).

Next, we have the word “hemit”, which carries no sense of guilt or iniquity and is used in the case of righteous capital punishment, or when the killing is the result of an attack from a wild beast, and so on! The root of this word is related to the word “emet” or truth. We see this usage in Leviticus 20:4; Numbers 35:19-21; Deuteronomy 13:10 (your passage) and Deuteronomy 17:7!

Finally, when God orders the execution or destruction of an individual or group (like when He commands Joshua at the five cities of Canaan), the word “haraq” is used (See Genesis 20:4; Exodus 4:23, etc.). This form of killing is used specifically in the prevention of foreseen evils beyond our comprehension. By eliminating these people, God is actually sparing millions of people the pain, disease, suffering, and death that they would have caused. It would be used for example in eliminating an Adolph Hitler. There is absolutely nothing evil in this, in fact it is very good. Therefore, this form of killing is always just, whether or not we finite humans can see the full implications of His doing it.

The question has also been asked, “Why couldn’t God just make the devils repent and then save them rather than condemn them all to eternal death in Gehenna? I mean, didn’t Jesus die for all sins? Can’t He save them as well?

And the answer is, yes, He could, but He won’t, because these are free-will beings who not only have made this choice, but God has foreseen that, even if given many opportunities, they still will not repent.

Therefore, regarding this type of death that they will suffer (eternal separation from the presence of God), and believing they know what this means, they still choose faithless rebellion, and so God is entirely justified, and no person who truly understands this can feel sorry for the malevolent beings of this universe who are being so judged. American mass murder (though he never actually did the killing) is such a person. He knows God is real and hates God, rejects God and mocks God. Clearly there are many other human spirits like this! In the end actual hell is merely the place God has provided where He is not and is in fact is giving them their way. They will be their own lord (Genesis 3:5) forever without God or anything He would have provided (light, fellowship, cooling breezes, order, touch, etc.)

Now then, according to the Scriptures a murderer is almost always a person who sits and premeditates the killing of another human being for some ultimate selfish reason such as hatred, jealousy, political power, revenge, profit, control, etc.! Originally mankind was made in God’s image, so when we take a life and shed another’s blood, we offend God. We are also killing all that persons potential future offspring. Mankind was also meant to be a progenitor of others and so when we murder, we eliminate the life of all those who were meant to have a life because of us who are not yet born. Did you know in Genesis the Lord tells Cain, your brother’s bloods call out from the ground and not your brothers blood? Yes in Hebrew the word is a plural.

God takes humanity’s mutual preservation of each individual’s life very seriously. So seriously in fact, as well as being aware of the human’s natural tendency for revenge and errors in judgment, we see that in the time of the Covenant of the Law with Israel, He also set up places of refuge (entire cities), and commanded each case be judged with fair trials obtaining witnesses (two or more that must be in agreement), but gave them a law the stemmed from the time of Noah which said, “If a man sheds the blood of another, by man his blood shall be shed”, and then finally recommends forgiveness for most sin and provides a system of blood sacrifice for sin, culminating when He gave His only begotten Son (Isaiah 53/John 3). The provision of animal sacrifice was of course only temporary looking forward to this “once for all” sacrifice of His Son (Hebrews 10:10), as an atonement that satisfies the requirement of life for life (Genesis 9:6/Isaiah 53). For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Therefore, this intent of God to treat each individual life as sacred is so serious that, as eluded to above, that Jesus the Messiah says that even anger and insult are violations of the 6th Commandment.

So why did our Lord do all this for us? Because of the potential danger that lurks within each of us when we act out as our own lord (Genesis 3:5) which is the true fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, by which we decide to disregard God’s word and decide good and evil for ourselves (do what is right in our own eyes...see the book of Kings). Sad as it seems to admit it, the source of these heinous and dangerous motivations is a genuine potential that lies within each of us (Matthew 15:19)! Who can deny it? Only the self-deluded!
 

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