[_ Old Earth _] Time does not exist, and this impacts evolution

[rthom7]

Without being too bogged into Science, but there are many Scientists who also agree, time does not exist, and there should be two fundamentals, space and matter.

So evolution does NOT exist either, because it runs on time.... The Bible does have a word for the forward progression of events, called yom, which is a day, and means the forward journey of the earth on its axis...
There is also a Hebrew word for season, which is the forward journey of the earth through space.

There is no Hebrew word for a backwards journey of time, the Hebrew word qedem, means over the horizon, meaning that which went forward since Creation time, and does not mean eternity past....

Indeed GOD is beyond time and matter and space.... thus time is not a fundamental physical law for GOD

U tube videos such as Professor Gerald Schroeder, say time came only into being when matter rushed away from each other, since creation....

Consider this, your body is made of protein molecules and is technically rebuilt every 4 months or so... so why do we age ? Mutations affect our DNA repair process and we are rebuilt according to the instructions we carry, hence we all age as we are made over and over...

Consider a uranium atom on a table, does it age ? no, it may undergo processes of chemistry...nuclear reactions maybe, but this is not time, its a process.... based on assumptions evolution uses processes based on present experiments to assume processes continue the same in the past....

When I read evolution complex matter it makes one weary.... but the simple thing to destroy evolution is simple.... go allow us to explore Noah's Ark.... and prove time really does exist....

Consider the u tube video work of John Sanford, a genetics expert, says the DNA is going down hill, not uphill, our bodies die because the number of mutations in our cells kill us, a 50 year old ( one who has journeyed 50 times around the sun, a process, has over 50,000 mutations per cell, and these errors destroy our force of living properly, so we die slowly.... watch his video if you want a simple answer to evolution....

Why would God who is beyond time, want to use time in is creation ? He didn't and doesn't.... He spoke things into existence, and each forward movement of earth was called a day.... but day one is NOT called the first day, because the word first implies a day of time to compare it to... but time didn't exist then, so in a Hebrew Bible the verse says evening and morning day one..... thus forward time existed only since then...
Sabbath is not a time word either, its based on counting days to make a week... thus the events of life can be counted, but they are not timed events, they are the forward journeys of our life since Creation.

We have been here since Adam about 6,000 journeys around the Son (sun) of God, and soon a 1000 journeys of a huge marriage party will begin....what a party that will be for the redeemed...

Shalom

 

[Knotical]

Now I am not going to disagree with your assessment that there is no such thing as evolution, as I agree on that point; however, I do have to say that time does exist, at least on a human level. Just like inches, feet, litres, gallons, and pounds exist. Time is a unit of measurement, specifically the duration of something. Whether it is measuring how long a car takes to get from point a to b, or how long it takes the earth to go around the sun.

But it is important to point out that it is a man-made concept of understanding something, thus it is inherently flawed, which is why it is unreliable when it comes to figuring out how old something is. And that is the trap evolutionists fall into. They put so much faith in one man-made concept, they assume another one (evolution) must be true and the findings they use applying one to the other really just starts to fall apart when you finally consider that since one is flawed then the other one must be as well.

 

[Edward]

Time is not a fundamental physics law for God, but it does exist and God created it.

Refer to Genesis 1:1
In the beginning (time) God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter)...

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

 

[Barbarian]

Time is God's way of keeping everything from happening at once.

Evolution would be like any other sort of causual event. If time did not exist, there would be no such things as causes and effects.

 

[Free]

Of course time exists; I don't see how it could be otherwise. I would think it began with the existence of the first thing that previously did not exist--the very moment of the beginning of Creation.

 

[Hyla C]

Without being too bogged into Science, but there are many Scientists who also agree, time does not exist, and there should be two fundamentals, space and matter.

Since your post was made 15 hours ago I must conclude that it does not exist either.

 

[rthom7]

Really good replies gentlemen, like your kindness too

Knotical yes time a a form of measuring forward progression of events, as the seconds tick away new events come upon our conscious..... the trap science make with time, is if it moves forward, does it also move backwards? the answer is no.... There are no Hebrew words for time backwards...qedem began when Creation began, not before it


Edward I agree with you....the forward progression of events, measured as time exists, it's known in Scripture as yom, the day of events....

Barbarian Yes your correct my friend, time allows for causes and affects.... the sad thing mankind has does is to assume God needs time to get things done... He spoke the world into existence Scripture says, and as Schroeder points out parts of the galaxies moved away as relative distances of space and matter creating relativity of time...this causes the universe to look old when its not physically old.... There is a Bible verse for this thing

Ge 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

How can you create generations in Creation as well as day in Creation ? the answer is relativity.... a single 24 hour time "yom" can look as if its very old "generation"



Free yes I agree time exists but not the time Science defines, the yom, the season and the qedem only are words for forward movements of events since Creation

Hyla C love your humour friend.... Hebrew people say look backs to see where you are going, and where you have been, the future time they say does not exist, only our past exists... also since the present forward progression of events is all we have, time does not exist in a future or past tense, all we have is the presence.... Science uses assumptions that processes in the here and now worked the same in the past...that is a poor assumption

Shalom

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian Yes your correct my friend, time allows for causes and affects.... the sad thing mankind has does is to assume God needs time to get things done...

No, creationism assumes He needs time to get things done. Christians assume that the creation was ex nihilo, instantaneous, from which everything else developed in time. You, for example, were created by God, but in good time as He saw fit. Same with everything else.

He spoke the world into existence Scripture says, and as Schroeder points out parts of the galaxies moved away as relative distances of space and matter creating relativity of time...this causes the universe to look old when its not physically old....

Sorry, that won't work. Supernovae, millions of light years away, would then have to be faked, with God creating the light on the way to Earth, showing a star that never existed. And since God is truth, that doctrine is demonstrably false.

 

[Hyla C]

Science uses assumptions that processes in the here and now worked the same in the past...that is a poor assumption

On the contrary, it's quite frequently an excellent assumption and can typically be shown to be the case.

Take radiocative decay for example. The rate of radioactive decay is governed by the interaction of the electromagnetic and the nuclear weak force. If you alter either of those fundamental forces then profoundly unpleasant things happen. Stable atoms become unstable, all life is extinguished, the planet melts and every star in the universe explodes. Consequently, the radioactive decay rates must have been constant throughout the past or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Free]

Ge 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

How can you create generations in Creation as well as day in Creation ? the answer is relativity.... a single 24 hour time "yom" can look as if its very old "generation"



Free yes I agree time exists but not the time Science defines, the yom, the season and the qedem only are words for forward movements of events since Creation

And yet you cannot even provide a definition of "yom" without resorting to standard time--"a single 24 hour time." You state in your OP that "We have been here since Adam about 6,000 journeys around the [sun]," which is to say 6,000 years. Calling something by a different name doesn't change anything and it certainly doesn't mean that that thing doesn't exist.

 

[rthom7]

And yet you cannot even provide a definition of "yom" without resorting to standard time--"a single 24 hour time."

The Hebrew word yom is the basic unit of measuring events, known as a day, or 24 hours.... the yom is when the earth turns into and away from the sun, making a period of daylight and night time....

The Science use of time includes features that yom doesn''t.... such as time that goes backwards.... yet true Science only experiments in the present time.... experiments based on past events are based on assumptions

The fact that the sun went backwards 10 degrees an than forward again, shows that time as Science define it, does not exist...since the yom is based only on earth rotation on its axis, and thus is not exact or accurate...yet this does not matter to Hebrew thinking....

When God creates earth with features in 6 literal yoms, we can believe this was so, a literal week of time.... yet other parts of our universe where affected by other journeys of time, hence look older and more mature....

Shalom

 

[rthom7]

Take radiocative decay for example. The rate of radioactive decay is governed by the interaction of the electromagnetic and the nuclear weak force. If you alter either of those fundamental forces then profoundly unpleasant things happen.

I agree, but can you list some example of these factors please, that affect the processes of nuclear reactions?


During Eden, the factors would be different.... Materialism science does not accept Edenic factors, so we have a problem with our assumptions....

Shalom

 

[rthom7]

Take radiocative decay for example. The rate of radioactive decay is governed by the interaction of the electromagnetic and the nuclear weak force. If you alter either of those fundamental forces then profoundly unpleasant things happen.

I agree, but can you list some example of these factors please, that affect the processes of nuclear reactions?


During Eden, the factors would be different.... Materialism science does not accept Edenic factors, so we have a problem with our assumptions....

Shalom

 

[rthom7]

Take radiocative decay for example. The rate of radioactive decay is governed by the interaction of the electromagnetic and the nuclear weak force. If you alter either of those fundamental forces then profoundly unpleasant things happen.

I agree, but can you list some example of these factors please, that affect the processes of nuclear reactions?


During Eden, the factors would be different.... Materialism science does not accept Edenic factors, so we have a problem with our assumptions....

Shalom

 

[rthom7]

Greeting Barbarian

You, for example, were created by God, but in good time as He saw fit. Same with everything else.

When I read Genesis the only time God used is the yom, 24 hour periods of time, so everything has to fit within that framework

Sorry, that won't work. Supernovae, millions of light years away, would then have to be faked, with God creating the light on the way to Earth, showing a star that never existed. And since God is truth, that doctrine is demonstrably false

Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Your welcome to your theories of faith, as I am mine, but Scripture says here that YHWH commanded things into matter as He spoke..... all in the time frame of a series of yom "24 hour hours of time"

Shalom

 

[Douglas Summers]

Without being too bogged into Science, but there are many Scientists who also agree, time does not exist, and there should be two fundamentals, space and matter.

Time is created for man only. Time does not exist with God, or rather, time does not effect God. For there was no time till God created it for His purpose in man. Eternity is timeless, in which God exists. The events in time on the earth will test and decide what will be timeless or eternal for man.

 

[Barbarian]

The Hebrew word yom is the basic unit of measuring events, known as a day, or 24 hours.... the yom is when the earth turns into and away from the sun, making a period of daylight and night time....

"Yom" can mean "day", "period of daylight", "lifetime", "eons", and "forever", among others. You've been misinformed.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
You, for example, were created by God, but in good time as He saw fit. Same with everything else.

When I read Genesis the only time God used is the yom, 24 hour periods of time, so everything has to fit within that framework

See above. It's not what you were told. Would you like me to show you some examples?

Barbarian observes:
Sorry, that won't work. Supernovae, millions of light years away, would then have to be faked, with God creating the light on the way to Earth, showing a star that never existed. And since God is truth, that doctrine is demonstrably false

Your welcome to your theories of faith, as I am mine, but Scripture says here that YHWH commanded things into matter as He spoke..... all in the time frame of a series of yom "24 hour hours of time"

As you learned, "24 hour hours of time", is not found in the Creation Account. That is man's addition to Genesis to make it more acceptable to man.

 

[Hyla C]

Take radiocative decay for example. The rate of radioactive decay is governed by the interaction of the electromagnetic and the nuclear weak force. If you alter either of those fundamental forces then profoundly unpleasant things happen.

I agree, but can you list some example of these factors please, that affect the processes of nuclear reactions?


During Eden, the factors would be different.... Materialism science does not accept Edenic factors, so we have a problem with our assumptions....

Shalom

The electromagnetic force and the nuclear weak force. That's about it unless you want to count basic math and logic. Alter either of those forces by just a smidge and you won't get life as we know it. Or even matter as we know it.

There are a few experiments out there where they've altered decay rates using extreme conditions such as ultrahigh pressures or extreme ionizing conditions but those are really just tinkering with the electromagnetic force by proxy. Life can't exist under any conditions that alter nuclear decay rates by more than the experimental error and in many cases solid matter has a rough time of it.

 

[rthom7]

Greetings Hyla C

The electromagnetic force and the nuclear weak force. There are a few experiments out there where they've altered decay rates using extreme conditions such as ultrahigh pressures or extreme ionizing conditions but those are really just tinkering with the electromagnetic force by proxy.

The Edenic world would have had a very different ionic field, affecting the electromagnetic forces, and thus nuclear processes and reactions,,,, thus affecting Science who use assumptions that todays decay rate is the same as long ago... its a poor assumption....

Shalom