What Did Paul Really Mean?

[MrVersatile48]

What Did Paul Really Mean?

'New perspective' scholars argue that we need, well, a new perspective on justification by faith.
Simon Gathercole | posted 8/10/2007 08:48AM


Pick up any recent Bible commentary or theology textbook, and you will read about something called the "new perspective on Paul." Seminaries have buzzed for decades about how they might apply to Paul the new light shed on Judaism. Some advocates of the new perspective conclude that the Reformers have led Protestants to misunderstand the all-important doctrine of justification.


As a result, the new perspective has stirred more than a little controversy. Ligon Duncan, former moderator of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), said new perspective theology "undercuts the certainty of believers regarding the substance of the gospel message." In June, the PCA General Assembly said advocates of the new perspective should report themselves to presbytery courts, because their teaching does not accord with the Westminster Standards...


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... 13.22.html

See also

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... ml#related

Let God's Word speak for itself

See Romans 3, Romans 10, Galatians 2:15-16 & Ephesians 2:8-9 @ http://www.BibleGateway.org

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

Re: "

Galatians 2:15-16 (New International Version)

15"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may bejustified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (New International Version)

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithâ€â€and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of Godâ€â€

9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 3

No One is Righteous

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
13"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."[d]
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."[e]
14"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."[f]
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16ruin and misery mark their ways,
17and the way of peace they do not know."[g]
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."[h]

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunishedâ€â€

26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Rom 10

5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them."[a] 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e]

12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentileâ€â€the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[g]

 

[unred typo]

Hei there, Mr. Versatile48, if you’re interested in a different perspective on Paul that is completely scriptural, here’s a couple links you can try. Read my answers here and if you have comments or questions, I’ll be happy to answer them:


TOS RULES: We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God. This is a Christian forum and any posting(s) that is intended to purpously distort Paul's writings will not be tolerated.

The links have been removed for violating this rule, any future post distorting this truth about Paul will cause you a warning against your membership here with ChristianForums.net

Forum Moderator
-Atone

 

[MrVersatile48]

From what I quickly read therem you originally titled your thread, "Paul's false gospel"

Sorry, but Paul & Jesus know much better than you do

Woks are done from gratitude for salvation fully purchased by the precious blood of Christ, not to try & earn salvation, which is impossible & a false gospel of 'good works'

Timely Word 4 Today here:-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Preach the Gospel!

"But when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, you will
receive power and will tell people about Me everywhere -
in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the
ends of the earth."

Acts 1:8 NLT

_______________

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Mark 16:15,16 NKJV

_______________

No Easy Road...

You will be arrested, punished, and even killed.

Because of me, you will be hated by people of all nations.
Many will give up and will betray and hate each other.

Many false prophets will come and fool a lot of people.
Evil will spread and cause many people to stop loving others.

But if you keep on being faithful right to the end, you will
be saved. When the good news about the kingdom has been
preached all over the world and told to all nations, the end will come.

Matthew 24:9-14 CEV

_______________

We need a Savior because we are sinners,
and the wages of sin is death...

Thanks be unto God for his wonderful gift:
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God is the object of
our faith; the only faith that saves is faith in Him.



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Through the Bible in a Year - Readings for August 13

August 13: John 1:1-18, 1 Chronicles 5-6, Zephaniah 2

Click Here for the complete schedule

Or Copy and paste this link into your browser:
http://www.arcamax.com/ttb-yr.html



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Weekly Meditation 8/12 - 8/18: Jesus Christ Is Lord NIV

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and
under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in
them, singing:

"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!"

Revelation 5:13 NIV

_______________

That all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father,
who sent him.

John 5:23 NIV

 

[unred typo]

MrVersatile48 on Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:27 am
From what I quickly read therem you originally titled your thread, "Paul's false gospel"

Sorry, but Paul & Jesus know much better than you do

Woks are done from gratitude for salvation fully purchased by the precious blood of Christ, not to try & earn salvation, which is impossible & a false gospel of 'good works'

Timely Word 4 Today here:-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I agree that Jesus and Paul know better than I or any other man does about what they meant in their teaching. That’s why I listen to the Holy Spirit when I’m reading what they taught and not the cunningly devised fables that men have woven out of their words.

I also agree that works are done out of “gratitude for salvation fully purchased by the precious blood of Christ,†since without his blood, we could never have been ‘accepted in the beloved.’ I am grateful every time I think of it and whenever I confess a sin, I am grateful that the blood is continuing to keep me clean before God.

Sometimes, though, I am reminded of someone that I have not forgiven for wrongs against me so I don’t feel clean again until I get that resentment and pride out of my heart. Jesus said unless we forgive others, we are not forgiven by our heavenly father. Who should I believe? The words of Jesus or the words of preachers who tell me that all my past, present and future sins have already been forgiven?


I noticed that your “Timely Word 4 Today here:-

------------------------------------------------------------------------------†is blank.
May I suggest Matthew 28:19-20
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Or

Romans 2:5-8
...God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality,

eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness,

indignation and wrath

 

[Drew]

I am beginning to familiarize myself with the "New Perspectives on Paul" (NPP) movement by reading material from one of its proponents - NT Wright.

I would caution against a rush to judgement against NPP. While I am only new to it, I would characterize the NPP as not so much undoing "core orthodoxy" but rather painting a more coherent and integrated model of God's action in the world with core orthodoxy included and expanded upon.

Please do not let others (including me!) tell you that NPP is good or bad. Investigate for yourself.