What is the balance between grace and faith?

[Deborah13]

Is there a balance between grace and faith? What it James mean by faith without works is dead? What did Paul mean when he said he labored? What about living in the spirit and not in the flesh? What did Paul mean when he said that he was not worthy?

I believe what this man teaches. That God has done all things that He needed to do to save us, to sanctify us, and to bless us. What should we do?

 

[agua.]

We should be obedient like Jesus said.

Joh 14:15 KJV If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


I haven't watched the video yet but from memory Andrew Wommack isn't one of my favourite teachers.

 

[ironmonk]

It means that working to get faith wont ever give you faith, but not working out of the faith you do have means your faith is dead.

 

[Deborah13]

It means that working to get faith wont ever give you faith, but not working out of the faith you do have means your faith is dead.

I think this is a good statement.

 

[ironmonk]

I think this is a good statement.

Yes thank you, I learnt the secret to salvation and works in my last faith frenzy.

 

[Deborah13]

We should be obedient like Jesus said.

Joh 14:15 KJV If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


I haven't watched the video yet but from memory Andrew Wommack isn't one of my favourite teachers.

I posted this because of the message not because of the person who gave it.

 

[ironmonk]

(Deleted. Completly off topic. Obadiah.)

 

[Deborah13]

(Deleted. Completly off topic. Obadiah.)

Good choice not to go to Camelot.

Sorry, I'm confused what is off topic?

 

[ironmonk]

My youtube post was, but it's ok because I want to express myself even more now because I have so much to share.

 

[TOG]

Is there a balance between grace and faith? What it James mean by faith without works is dead? What did Paul mean when he said he labored? What about living in the spirit and not in the flesh? What did Paul mean when he said that he was not worthy?

I believe what this man teaches. That God has done all things that He needed to do to save us, to sanctify us, and to bless us. What should we do?

Any chance you could give a summary of what he says for those who don't have time to watch an hour long video?

The TOG​

 

[Deborah13]

Any chance you could give a summary of what he says for those who don't have time to watch an hour long video?

The TOG​

I wish I could TOG but I can't. It would only be my interpretation of what he is saying.
This statement is as close as I can get....

"That God has done all things that He needed to do to save us, to sanctify us, and to bless us."
He is teaching that one can get out of balance between grace and faith and fall into error.

 

[childeye]

I don't see any balance between grace and faith. They are not left and right compatible nor opposed against one another in any way that would denote any need for balance. That is why the Gospel is presented from faith to faith. God's faith in His Word in us (not the scriptures, but His Word in our hearts) and our faith in His Word in our hearts. I don't believe the grace through which faith comes is about balance.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't see any balance between grace and faith. They are not left and right compatible nor opposed against one another in any way that would denote any need for balance. That is why the Gospel is presented from faith to faith. God's faith in His Word in us (not the scriptures, but His Word in our hearts) and our faith in His Word in our hearts. I don't believe the grace through which faith comes is about balance.

Well when there are discussions flying everywhere about people who think that they are saved only by grace and they think they can go on their merry way living as heathens then they may have forgotten it is not by grace alone but through faith.
And by the same token it is not through faith alone but by grace.
That is what this message is about.

 

[childeye]

Well when there are discussions flying everywhere about people who think that they are saved only by grace and they think they can go on their merry way living as heathens then they may have forgotten it is not by grace alone but through faith.
And by the same token it is not through faith alone but by grace.
That is what this message is about.

That is a false dichotomy. For example if I said God chose the lowly rich in faith, then faith comes through God's grace. And it comes by grace so that no flesh may glory.

 

[Deborah13]

That is a false dichotomy. For example if I said God chose the lowly rich in faith, then faith comes through God's grace. And it comes by grace so that no flesh may glory.

It is not that grace and faith are opposed to one another. The teaching does not teach that they are opposed to one another but to how they work together.
It is people's doctrines that can be opposed to how they work together. People in opposition to correct doctrine.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

Here's the thing....and I was one of the worldliest and sinful people you ever met. There is definitely something going on mentally to be born again. But that is a change that no one can visibly see. I don't mean your works or fruit that others can see, I mean whats going on in your head that no one else can see only God. You can just look at the world and tell when certain things don't feel right. And instinctively you want no part of it. I personally think the cleaner and individual is, the more the spirit of truth dwells in them. Vs the spirit of the world. Clean how so? Not be a drunk...a caffeine addict...smoke two packs of cigs a day.... Basically, I feel anything that is not naturally in the human body is taking away from that purity. Therefore corrupting the temple (body). The holy spirit dwells in that temple OR the devil/demons. The balance is in light to dark......God or the devil.......Satan VS Jesus. Mathew 6:22 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single (healthy), thy whole body shall be full of light." Jesus also stressed the importance of fasting. And said that when we fast to really do it...dont fake it in front of men. Mathew 6:16-18, like it was an intimate affair between God and a person to humble them, that they be brought down from exaltation. Muslims fast...Jews fast......Why not Christians? Jesus said to do it. He did it for 40 days and beat the devil!

There was a certain man who had a demon possessed son, that the disciples could not cast out. Even though Christ had empowered/charged them to be able to cast out demons. So the man went to Jesus himself, and Jesus cast out the demon out of his son. Afterwards, the disciples went to Jesus and were like "Master, you said we could cast out demons...why not this one?" And the answer Jesus gave, was Mark 9:29 of the KJV "And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." To me that proves that diet is important to the body temple. Yet many will remind me that Jesus also said, its not what goes in our body that defiles us, but what comes out. But thats like saying you can give a loaded gun to anyone...only you can pull the trigger. But why even have the gun at all? And if one is still out stealing, fornicating, partying, living it up for the flesh, do they really have the discernment and guidance of the spirit? That was a good video, thanks for posting it OP.

 

[childeye]

It is not that grace and faith are opposed to one another. The teaching does not teach that they are opposed to one another but to how they work together.
It is people's doctrines that can be opposed to how they work together. People in opposition to correct doctrine.

That sounds better. This is how I see it so you might see the problem I am having with the presentation. Faith is really trust. And trust is a gradual thing that begins small, fragile and weak in the midst of much trepidation. But it grows even as it proves the reality or trustworthiness of that which it is trusting in through actions that are taken because of it, till it is confident even unto death. Therefore without stepping out in faith nothing is ever proven True, and faith cannot grow and fear be dissuaded. The enmity between God and man is built upon distrust in one another. We did receive a false image of Him when we trusted Satan. The Gospel is from faith to faith, but as scripture says, God moved first. This is His grace in that He gave His beloved son that we may see, or hear of His incredible self sacrificing Love that we might trust in Him.

Now if that was what the video is about, I didn't really get that. I must confess however, I did fast forward through much of it. But I don't really see a balance between faith and grace.

 

[Deborah13]

Here's the thing....and I was one of the worldliest and sinful people you ever met. There is definitely something going on mentally to be born again. But that is a change that no one can visibly see. I don't mean your works or fruit that others can see, I mean whats going on in your head that no one else can see only God. You can just look at the world and tell when certain things don't feel right. And instinctively you want no part of it. I personally think the cleaner and individual is, the more the spirit of truth dwells in them. Vs the spirit of the world. Clean how so? Not be a drunk...a caffeine addict...smoke two packs of cigs a day.... Basically, I feel anything that is not naturally in the human body is taking away from that purity. Therefore corrupting the temple (body). The holy spirit dwells in that temple OR the devil/demons. The balance is in light to dark......God or the devil.......Satan VS Jesus. Mathew 6:22 "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single (healthy), thy whole body shall be full of light." Jesus also stressed the importance of fasting. And said that when we fast to really do it...dont fake it in front of men. Mathew 6:16-18, like it was an intimate affair between God and a person to humble them, that they be brought down from exaltation. Muslims fast...Jews fast......Why not Christians? Jesus said to do it. He did it for 40 days and beat the devil!

There was a certain man who had a demon possessed son, that the disciples could not cast out. Even though Christ had empowered/charged them to be able to cast out demons. So the man went to Jesus himself, and Jesus cast out the demon out of his son. Afterwards, the disciples went to Jesus and were like "Master, you said we could cast out demons...why not this one?" And the answer Jesus gave, was Mark 9:29 of the KJV "And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." To me that proves that diet is important to the body temple. Yet many will remind me that Jesus also said, its not what goes in our body that defiles us, but what comes out. But thats like saying you can give a loaded gun to anyone...only you can pull the trigger. But why even have the gun at all? And if one is still out stealing, fornicating, partying, living it up for the flesh, do they really have the discernment and guidance of the spirit? That was a good video, thanks for posting it OP.

Your welcome.

 

[for_his_glory]

I wish I could TOG but I can't. It would only be my interpretation of what he is saying.
This statement is as close as I can get....

"That God has done all things that He needed to do to save us, to sanctify us, and to bless us."
He is teaching that one can get out of balance between grace and faith and fall into error.

One can get out of balance between the two as many believe all it takes is Gods grace to save us, but forget that faith is a vital part of grace as faith is that of Christ Jesus who did not take our sins upon him, but was made a final sacrifice for us to be able to reconcile ourselves back to that grace of God through repentance and confessing Christ as Lord and Savior. Many people think grace is all they need for if God loves me He is not going to punish me if I am a good person, but yet lack that of the Spiritual renewal of John 3:3-7. Yes, God has done everything He is ever going to do and now it's up to us by faith to believe and carry on the works of the Lord until His glorious return.

 

[Deborah13]

One can get out of balance between the two as many believe all it takes is Gods grace to save us, but forget that faith is a vital part of grace as faith is that of Christ Jesus who did not take our sins upon him, but was made a final sacrifice for us to be able to reconcile ourselves back to that grace of God through repentance and confessing Christ as Lord and Savior. Many people think grace is all they need for if God loves me He is not going to punish me if I am a good person, but yet lack that of the Spiritual renewal of John 3:3-7. Yes, God has done everything He is ever going to do and now it's up to us by faith to believe and carry on the works of the Lord until His glorious return.

I agree with your statement.
I would add that there are born again people who think very much the same. They are like the people in Corinth, that are not growing in faith and therefore are weak and unproductive.