Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

What "saves" you? belief? faith? works? the cross?

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00
O

ourfamily1

Guest
The cross signifies death! And every man is "given a cross"!

Matthew 16:24. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Romans 6:3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7. For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Luke 15:20. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23. And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

John 14:4. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What about salvation by death (the cross)?


To enter the "promise land" Israel of old had to be "circumcised". All this was an allegory to teach us that the children of God must "lose the flesh (body)" in order to enter Heaven, the true land of the Princes of God. Check this out:

John 5:25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice

Ecclesiastes 12:7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. [this is the real pass over from earth to Heaven]

Hosea 13:14. I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Revelation 9:6. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Revelation 5:9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Hebrews 12:22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Ecclesiastes 4:2. Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive. 3. Yea, better is he than both they, which hath not yet been, who hath not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.

You better take a sober look at what you call "death"! Jesus told us "the way" he was to go and that "way we know" ... and all of us must follow him .... the same way!

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :biggrin
 
Well, you posted allot of scripture and gave a couple of lines of dialog, so what are you trying to convey?....
 
A man can receive nothing .....

except it is given by Heaven!

John 3:27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Isaiah 50:4. The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. 5. The Lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. 6. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. 7. For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. 8. He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me. 9. Behold, the Lord God will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

Matthew 11:15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 16. But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17. And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

What is the Holy Spirit saying to you in these Words? Light is for the awakened mind and the Father administers all "talents" to those children willing to trade! Just listen carefully without resisting Him and you will understand!

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :biggrin :angel:
 
John
In the subject line you ask the questions..
What "saves" you? belief? faith? works? the cross?

Then you place some verses, but they don't line up with each other...Can you provide some opinion or commentary on what you are trying to ask in relation to your OP?
 
jgredline said:
Well, you posted allot of scripture and gave a couple of lines of dialog, so what are you trying to convey?....
Thank JG - I, for one, have grown weary of just going on and on - It is as though people these days don't come as prepared as they should and read their works a head before posting.

And I really try hard to be patient for I am certainly no great poster myself but we, today, are so scatter-brained - and I include myself here. I've lead many to scratch their heads and looking at my posts like a tree full of owls wondering where I was coming from :oops:

God bless
 
As you wish, gentlemen....

We have all heard many Christians, preachers, and even the disciples tell us what it is that “saves usâ€Â. The title of the post asks is it belief, faith, works, or the cross. In the post we deal with the cross which really means death. From the law of Moses there is an analogy and pattern of Heavenly processing. Before Israel could enter the “promise land†an analogy for Heaven, they had to be “circumcisedâ€Â. This illustrates the requirement that men must lose the flesh-body in order to enter Heaven, the real “promise landâ€Â! The cross (death) does just that in all the ways men have died on earth, 1 Corinthians 15:49-54, Ecclesiastes 12:7. At the point of death, Jesus, God’s designated Redeemer, draws the spirits of men to the Heavenly Altar, where their thinking and attitudes are “CHANGED†(altered) to the liking of the Father, Malachi 3:1-6, Revelation 6:9-11. Another term for “redemption†is “salvationâ€Â. And this takes us back to the title question.

Going back to the title, all believers, all those with faith, and all those with works have a common end, a cross (death). Now in the direct Words from Father’s lips and in the Savior’s own Words:

Isaiah 49:6. And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 7. Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. 8. Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; 9. That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places (the Heavens).

John 5:21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ecclesiastes 12:7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Jeremiah 31:3. The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Hosea 13:14. I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Revelation 5: 9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

We are SAVED (REDEEMED) by the cross (death) which is the exit pass which “circumcises†men and frees them as redeemed spirits as they return to the Father who created them.

Luke 15:20. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23.And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

The above Words are the testimonies of the Father-Son Savior team! I hope this further explanation is sufficient! Thanks.

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :tongue :biggrin
 
Re: As you wish, gentlemen....

ourfamily1 said:
We are SAVED (REDEEMED) by the cross (death) which is the exit pass which “circumcises†men and frees them as redeemed spirits as they return to the Father who created them.

Can you explain what this means? I don't really understand it.
 
What "saves" you? belief? faith? works? the cross?
belief and faith are the same thing.
Faith without works is dead.
Works alone is futile.

Romans 5:1b ...we shall be saved by His life;
Rom 8:24a for we were saved by hope,
Calling on HIM, we are save Rom 10:13
Eph 2:8 by grace you are saved, through faith,
Loving the truth 2Thes 2:10
Titus 3:5 He saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

To be more specific, Jesus saves us!
 
I am sure you do understand it ....

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven". Death of the body (the cross) is the means by which Father "circumcises" (removes) the flesh. When you are inside Heaven and you see Jesus face to face and Father gives you a hug and a kiss .... and you can look down from Heaven and see the planet earth and men and devils on it ... THEN you know you are "saved" or "redeemed". Perhaps the Holy Spirit should show you these things.

Luke 15:20. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23. And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

John 3:27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Perhaps God means what He is showing us here! Can we trust Him? I do!!

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :tongue :biggrin
 
Re: I am sure you do understand it ....

ourfamily1 said:
"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of Heaven". Death of the body (the cross) is the means by which Father "circumcises" (removes) the flesh. When you are inside Heaven and you see Jesus face to face and Father gives you a hug and a kiss .... and you can look down from Heaven and see the planet earth and men and devils on it ... THEN you know you are "saved" or "redeemed". Perhaps the Holy Spirit should show you these things.

Luke 15:20. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23. And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

John 3:27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Perhaps God means what He is showing us here! Can we trust Him? I do!!

John,
ourfamily1 :wink: :tongue :biggrin

John
Do u believe all men will be saved?
A yes or no will do.
 
The policy is clear ....

... or Universal Salvation, as some call it.

In the past, we have had nothing but trouble discussing this "doctrine". Pages upon pages of arguments and insults that amounted to banning this discussion... and some members. We used to have a warning here that UR debate was banned, but it got lost in a database restore. Now it's back!

So, until people can debate this in a civil manner, the moratorium on this topic is still in place.

Peace all,
Vic

Are you fishing? I suggest that you adhere to the policy as stated. There is no need to seek cause for contention, is there? Perhaps adhering to this policy also works:

Matthew 5:9. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Romans 14:19. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Sharing is the motif for those who are members of the body of Christ! The members care for one another and honor those esteemed to be the least and uncomely, 1 Corinthians 12:12-27. How will I know if you are following Christ in any matter? "By their fruits ye shall know them"! As for me, this is what I am here to do:

Malachi 3:16. Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

Now let me ask you, do you believe that YOU should live by the principles of 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 toward "uncomely members", or should you do your own thing and say, "I do not need you"? I want to see Jesus in you!!

John,
ourfamily1 :angel: :angel:
 
Re: The policy is clear ....

ourfamily1 said:
Now let me ask you, do you believe that YOU should live by the principles of 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 toward "uncomely members", or should you do your own thing and say, "I do not need you"? I want to see Jesus in you!!

John,
ourfamily1 :angel: :angel:

A simple yes or no was too much ha? No matter, even the verse you quoted above is used by universalist out of context to bolster their position....

Secondly, the web address you are promoting weather yours or somebody elses is in violation of the TOS of this site which you are familiar with as is witnessed by your quote....I am asking you to remove that web address and adhere to the TOS of this site....Thank you...jg
 
As a Catholic who is Born Again by reason of having received Christ as my Savior during an Altar Call at my brothers Non Denominational Church by praying to Christ and asking Him to become my Savior I believe that the only way to get saved is by praying to Christ and asking Him to become ones Savior. Baptism, the Sacraments and church membership are all totally superfluous to salvation. 8-)
 
RobertMazar said:
As a Catholic who is Born Again by reason of having received Christ as my Savior during an Altar Call at my brothers Non Denominational Church by praying to Christ and asking Him to become my Savior I believe that the only way to get saved is by praying to Christ and asking Him to become ones Savior. Baptism, the Sacraments and church membership are all totally superfluous to salvation. 8-)
Amen!
 
I hear you, Robert, and even as someone who grew up within the Evangelical tradition, I can recall my "salvation prayer" with my grandfather when I was 11, 31 years ago.

It's always pricked at me what Paul wrote in Phillipians 2, though. He's already spoken about confessing the Christ, and then he goes on to say:

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


He's talking about "obeying", in the context of "working out our own salvation". Then he says (because Paul always throws the curveball) that it's GOD working in us.

Got it! Uhhhh, no, I don't. Is this a different kind of salvation? Or is the word "salvation" used in different ways? It doesn't seem like it can be the same "salvation" people mean when they reference the "After-Life Insurance" we received upon confessing Jesus as the Christ.
 
Back
Top