When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on Earth?

[Follower Of Christ]

I have heard all kinds of theories about rapture and in my understanding of the bible there is no such thing except for a misunderstanding with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. People crave the rapture and forget what Amos 5:18 is all about "Woe to you who desire the Day of the Lord! Why would you have the Day of the Lord?

In case you want to debate this, please read my commentary on the Book of Revelation, parts 1 to 3 first. It contains a lot of spiritual meat and is not for babes who are not weaned of milk yet.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

In case you want to debate this, please read my commentary on the Book of Revelation, parts 1 to 3 first. It contains a lot of spiritual meat and is not for babes who are not weaned of milk yet.

Well I read your commentary as you asked; and I am curious as to which version of the Bible you do use? Most will post, NKJV = New King James Version; of ESV = English Standard Versions; etc.

I did read the Book of Amos 5:18 NKJV; and I do agree the Tribes of Israel, along with most Christians; do not want to see the "Day of the Lord".

 

[Follower Of Christ]

I have a ESV copy at home which I have mainly used for the commentary. The reason why I posted the commentary is that many Christians believe that before tribulation starts in end time, they shall be miraculously raptured and spared the remainder of Daniel's 70th week. Well, there is no basis on scripture for that.

Another more subtle reason why I wrote is that from a Jewish non-Christian perspective, Jeremiah 31:31 applies "Behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah." As a Christian, I know from Hebrews 8, that Christ established a new and better covenant, nullifying the old. Yet, from a Jewish perspective, they think this day is in the future and it shall be the Antichrist that shall ratify a covenant with them breaking it in the middle of the week from Daniel 9:27. Further, from Isaiah 28:18 talking about Ephraim or House of Israel "Then your covenant with death will be annulled...". Isaiah 28:19 and Amos 7:9 talk about the sheer terror of the message.

My main point is that once the first seal is opened and the Antichrist covenant established, it shall bring terror and bad news to all except the 144,000. Many that thought themselves as Christians shall take the mark of the beast, disappointed at the lack of rapture. According to Christ, will he find faith when he returns?

Personally, as a Gentile, I pray to God to keep the 70th week away in the future.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Personally, as a Gentile, I pray to God to keep the 70th week away in the future.

I cannot speak to the "70th week"; but I do know that God's Judgement is already here. The antiChrist is actually an instrument of God's Wraith. As a child, it was his hearts desire to "kill the devil" that had suddenly popped up in his house one spring evening. As a man, when he does awaken; he will "kill the devil" by taking all the Sin, and Sinners from this earth.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

On a related point from Hosea 5:13 "When Ephraim saw his sickness and Judah his wound then Ephraim went to Assyria and sent to the great king. But he is not able to cure you or heal your wound." Ephraim is US, so in end times US and Israel shall sign a covenant with Antichrist which they shall regret. The great king is the Antichrist ruling the European Union and what holds him back is the power of the Holy Spirit. Once the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way then he shall run riot.

Yes, there shall be a third temple for Antichrist in Jerusalem to desolate. And yes US shall in the future strike a deal with the European Union, WHO etc. ruled by Antichrist. And many shall not know whether it's him and the false prophet to believe or the two witnesses who are sent from God, for miracles shall abound everywhere. Only the wise shall be able to discern.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

I cannot speak to the "70th week"; but I do know that God's Judgement is already here. The antiChrist is actually an instrument of God's Wraith. As a child, it was his hearts desire to "kill the devil" that had suddenly popped up in his house one spring evening. As a man, when he does awaken; he will "kill the devil" by taking all the Sin, and Sinners from this earth.

Devil cannot be killed by any human for he was created an angel with eternal nature, albeit fallen. He shall be tormented for ever and ever in lake of fire though after millennium ends. But yes, Antichrist shall be deluded in thinking that. I am not in a position to definitely say, but I have a hunch he shall be killed and resurrected himself, hence many shall think he is the Messiah.

Strangely, that is what the Devil wants - to annihilate all life on Earth. That is why Christ came, to save the human race from destruction via nuclear warfare. Recall Matthew 24:22 "And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut off."

God's judgement is not here yet. I don't see any nukes flying around. But we are getting close, what with Iran trying to get the bomb.

Lastly, recall Amos 8:11 "Behold the days are coming when I shall send a famine upon the land,..., of hearing the words of the Lord." Praise the Lord we are still able to write and post about these topics. In the future we might not be allowed and in those days we shall know God's judgement is here. For more please read Amos 9.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Devil cannot be killed by any human

There is a conversation in the "unorthodox forum" titled "about Demons". There is no such thing as demons or the devil; while there is a "creature" named Satan; his purpose is something else.

Think about the Book of Genesis. We have God; all powerful, all knowing and all seeing. He creates the earth, which He does deem "perfect". Then He creates man (human); who is not only capable of Sin, but born of Sin; and gives man dominion over the fish, fowl and all things upon the earth. Then you have demons, devils and a thing called Satan; that "appear" to be more powerful than God; leading men to Sin and evil. How does any of that make sense? Wouldn't it make more sense for the "all powerful God" to put a stop to that kind of nonsense when life was first "breathed" into Adam? Why allow "other-worldly creatures" to interfere with His perfection?

Humans are a great deal more than is understood. We have eyes, but we cannot see; we have ears, but cannot hear. The Divine is "blocked" from us; but we are still part of the Divine.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Then He creates man (human); who is not only capable of Sin, but born of Sin

Man first sinned via Adam after being created by rejecting the tree of life and eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Let me quote scripture from Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." From Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord."

From Hebrews 10:22 "Let us draw with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water." And also from Hebrews 13:9 "Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace."

From Hebrews 13:22 "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of The Living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to the innumerable angels in festal gathering." Well, now we are in the Laodicean era and Hebrews 13:13-14 encourages us "Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. For here we have no lasting city but we seek the city (heavenly Jerusalem) that is to come."

Satan means adversary, and let me quote Zechariah 3:1-2 "Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And the Lord said to Satan "The Lord rebuke you O Satan! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?" Read the rest of Zechariah 3 if you want but my point is that Satan stands by and shall do the utmost to keep people from being saved by Christ using various doctrines that "appear" righteous and enlightened so they take control over our mind. It's Satan that cuts us of from the divine, and Christ is our way to the holy of holies.

Let me conclude with Ezekiel 33:32 "And behold you are to them like one who sings lustful songs with a beautiful voice and plays well on an instrument, for they hear what they say, but they will not do it."

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die

Why didn't God simply destroy the Tree of Knowledge when He discovered it in His "perfect" Creation? Why didn't God simply destroy Adam when he did this "Sin"; and start over with His "perfection"? Why did God allow any "evil force" to overshadow His good works?

To answer your OP; there is Faith upon this earth. But there is very little Faith standing within any of these "religious organizations"; most of them at the top are only concerned about the money. And for those at the bottom; they simply follow the twist and turns laid out by the "Church Father's". When what happens doesn't exactly "match" what is "written in that Bible"; a whole lot of people are going to be extremely upset. A lot will blame God for misleading them; but God didn't do it.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

From Revelation 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which are described in the book."

The choice is yours whether you want to believe what is written in the Bible. God created us as free moral agents, contrary to Satan's wish who would like to create a dictatorship with a pyramid structure.

You have misunderstood my point about the True Church. It does not have a pyramid structure with those on top or bottom. It is composed of brothers and sisters outside of organized religion who through faith in Christ shall earn eternal salvation for Christ's blood was shed so we can have access to the holy of holies. We need no human mediator be it a priest, pope or pastor, or some sage of strange doctrines.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

From Revelation 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which are described in the book."

The choice is yours whether you want to believe what is written in the Bible. God created us as free moral agents, contrary to Satan's wish who would like to create a dictatorship with a pyramid structure.

You have misunderstood my point about the True Church. It does not have a pyramid structure with those on top or bottom. It is composed of brothers and sisters outside of organized religion who through faith in Christ shall earn eternal salvation for Christ's blood was shed so we can have access to the holy of holies. We need no human mediator be it a priest, pope or pastor, or some sage of strange doctrines.

I do apologize if I have misunderstood your point. I encourage all people to hang on tight to whatever Faith they can muster; because what lies before us is a bumpy road filled with hardship, confusion and pain.

There is some truth in the prophecy given in Revelations; but I'm not going to be the one to tell my Father that He must adhere to whatever "words" men decided to write down.

 

[Oseas]

I have heard all kinds of theories about rapture and in my understanding of the bible there is no such thing except for a misunderstanding with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. People crave the rapture and forget what Amos 5:18 is all about "Woe to you who desire the Day of the Lord! Why would you have the Day of the Lord?

Our Lord JESUS emphatically said:All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth-Mat.28:18.
The world of Devil as a whole,with all kind of structures they all have, yeah,all the nations and peculiar system of life of each one,are sufferring and will suffer catastrofic and insufferable punishments in this seventh and last millennium,or seventh and last Day,the LORD's Day. Get ready.
See, the precedent period of Tribulation, period of sorrows listed by JESUS-Mat.24:3-8-is the first signal of the beginning of the ETERNAL chastisement ahead. In fact, the ETERNAL punishment of all nations it had a written deadline to start, understand? And it has already really started.
Now, within this environment of punishments and pains and entire collapse of the Devil's world, the false messiah of the Jews will manifest himself as JESUS prophesied, saying to the Jews an IMPOSTOR they will receive as their messiah-John 5:43-47, combined with 2 Thes.2:3-12,and Re.13 :11.
Thus, in the midst of severe chastisement and great suffering in all nations due the wrath of the Lamb,-Re.6:14-17, we will soon see two Beasts reigning on Earth:
1-the old Gentile Beast of the Sea; and
2-the Beast of the earth(Israel)who will still manifest himself, from then on will begin the period of the last week(of years), the 70th week Daniel 9:27, and each Beast will reign for 3.5 years-42 months-or 1260 days-and who will first rule the 5th and last satanic kingdom -Daniel 2:41-44- is the old Gentile Beast of the sea-Re.13:1.

Then Re.11:2 and Re.13:5 will begin LITERALLY to be fulfilled as first period of the last week. The worst of all punishments will happen in the beginning of the 2nd half of the last week, with the establishment of the Abomination of Desolation for 1290 days-Dan.12:v.11.
12Blessed is he that waiteth,and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.(Oh yes,blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the Ineffable,Wonderful,Indescribable,Unspeakable day,the day 1.335.Hallelujaaah!!!

 

[Consecrated Life]

I have heard all kinds of theories about rapture and in my understanding of the bible there is no such thing except for a misunderstanding with 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17. People crave the rapture and forget what Amos 5:18 is all about "Woe to you who desire the Day of the Lord! Why would you have the Day of the Lord?

The " Day Of The Lord " is clearly described in scripture as a day of Judgement on the earth.
The day of meeting with Jesus in the air has never been & cannot be connected biblically to the day of judgment on the earth.
You cannot quote any scripture connecting the meeting with Jesus in the air , to the terrible Day Of the Lord.
You can't do it biblically.
I dare you to try ?

Joe 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

 

[TestiMoney]

Just a quick reply here I was a dispensationalist for many year's Darby ,C I Scofield ,Clarence Larkin etc In the last few years I started to look again at Matthew 25 and other scriptures and I now hold to historic Pre Millennialism the view held by the early Church. I have read many books on eschatology but by far the best is "Rediscovered early Church Pre Millennialism" by Robert Franklin and I highly recommend it.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Just a quick reply here I was a dispensationalist for many year's Darby ,C I Scofield ,Clarence Larkin etc In the last few years I started to look again at Matthew 25 and other scriptures and I now hold to historic Pre Millennialism the view held by the early Church. I have read many books on eschatology but by far the best is "Rediscovered early Church Pre Millennialism" by Robert Franklin and I highly recommend it.

I have no idea who Darby, Larkin etc. are. I follow Christ and not man. Paul said we must prove all things.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

I have a bible from a long time ago and I read it continuously when I have the time. All my conclusions come from reading the bible on my own.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Also, we are not in the end times yet, or the birth pangs. But we are in the Laodicean era, and only love and mutual understanding within the true church who does not have popes, ministers, pastors etc as the head, but Christ, keeps Daniel's 70th week away. From more, please read my commentary on the Book of Revelation.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

I have a bible from a long time ago and I read it continuously when I have the time. All my conclusions come from reading the bible on my own.

I am curious if you could share the year and publisher, it should be inside the front cover. And I do agree, a simple man with good old common sense should be able to read that Bible from cover to cover and get a general understanding of everything that is written. It should not take a "rocket scientist" to understand God's Word, a Book to "guide" mankind that can only be understood by "preachers" makes no sense.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

I have a Gideons bible. Version ESV, 2013 by The Gideons International.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Laodicean era

Revelation 3:20

[20] Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. (ESV)

Who will answer that door? Who would know the knock if they did hear it? Would they turn such a person away as being "crazy"? I've not found any "Church" near me who is capable of answering that door.