The Baptism that saves us Now

[Corinth77777]

Note: Im a learner trying things on. Here to discuss with those that want to come to an answer.

The more I see 1 Peter 3:21 from surrounding passages. I am coming to believe that the baptism that saves us now is: God ____________________________________


Now First thing I probably need to look up is the term itself. But instead I am going to make a claim and either prove it true or false. With others who are searching for truth.

My answer is quickened by the " Spirit"

Which makes the presence of God our baptism
1 Peter 3 kjv

and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death* in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein* few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us* (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him
........................................................................
Verse 16 is about having a good conscience before man or God? My guess is man.. if you do what is right and someone accuse you the accuser should be ashamed.

So a good conscience before man is in -your righteous acts before man

He went to preach to the souls in prison because He was quickened by the Spirit vs 18

(One way I see that is by Him setting captives free.)

The reason I crossed out the passage is because they were all prepositions

So then we can automatically connect vs 18 to 21

But quickened By the Spirit...... the baptism doth also save us

Remember the so called great commission
Surround(baptise, identify, immerse)them in the presence of the holy trinity ( the name of the father, son, and holy ghost)

Ok Jesus was quicken by who? The SPIRIT

Question? Was removal of dirt off the skin ritual washings? Well what would be our ritual washing that gives us a clear conscience before God? JESUS Christ the resurrected.>>>>Christ Jesus

So is this talking about being baptized into His Death, or being immersed into His life?

But quickened by the Spirit, is the like figure...." "BUT" quickened by the Spirit>>the baptism that saves us.

Jesus said He always did what was pleasing to the father and the father never left Him alone.

John 15
Abide

Righteous acts before man are only done in Christ- as we submit our bodies dead.
As our hearts are purified by obeying the word.

Wait but righteous acts before God are caused by God based on the Love of God all found in Christ.

yet if our bodies our dead then the only way to live is by His life....So what does it mean to walk in the newness of life? One It shows whereever Jesus is we are, ruling with Him, next to the father ...Alive by the Spirit. Immersed in the presence of The holy trinity.

So if we are walking in the newness of life we are living by the power of the Holyghost. GOD who has manifested Himself in three distinct persons.




Just remember im trying this on...so don't eat me alive scholars.

The Baptism that saves is God.
God is I am that I am.
So Is God his presence? I'd like to think so

So lets use what is new to me Identification

Recall there where to words that were under baptism- to temporarily dip, and one that had to do with permanent change.

So dip the pickle in boiling water and immerse it in vinegar...recall from other post

What did the pickle identify with when it was permanently changed? The vinegar Solution?

IF WE STAY SURROUNDED IN THE PRESENCE OF God (his life)what would we identify with?

His Glory?
His Peace?
His Love?
His Joy?
His patience

And who can eat from these fruits people

In the end I believe the prefigured baptism is the quickening by the Holy Spirit.

And the Baptism is God (or God's life)who gives us a clear conscience before God..

Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life

My thoughts GodsGrace

 

[for_his_glory]

We put on Jesus by the renewal of our mind, body and soul through Jesus life, death and resurrection by which we can reconcile ourselves back to Gods grace and mercy through His Salvation of Spiritual renewal and Spiritual rebirth of spirit. We now have the mind of Christ as joint heirs with Jesus as we walk in the path of Jesus and not our own path anymore.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God, Romans 8:6, 7.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

Mark 10:39; 16:15,16; Acts 2:38 It is Gods Spirit that was in Christ and which we are now baptized or have received as the disciples did on the day of Pentecost as when Jesus ascended into Heaven the Holy Spirit came down and fell on those who received Jesus and his word. The baptism that Jesus and Peter was talking about was a Spiritual rebirth through Gods word, not water, Luke 3:16, as Peter taught it was through repentance and accepting Jesus and his teachings is when we receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Corinth77777]

and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death* in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein* few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us* (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him


...............



Correction


What it does not say is the figure that saves us now, but the like figure.

Which would be a symbol too....that a symbol saves you.

The only figure that symbolically represents the death and resurrection is water Baptism.

Therefore water Baptism saves you.
For then it would be our "appeal" for a good conscience.


So our committment to the teachings of Christ is found in alligience -water baptism.

So what about those who do not participate in the symbol but show allegiance.

God is no respector of persons anybody that does righteous is acceptable to Him.

So niether circumcision or uncircumcision avails for anything the only thing that matters is faith working by love.

Now if a person shows commitment by laying down their life for a friend, who has never been baptized in water, Wouldn't water baptism be accounted to Him?

Therefore while water baptism shows alligience and could be used as an act of faith. What about others who have already acted in faith?

Who can forbid water to those who have received the Spirit in the same way we have?

So there is my answer - your alligience to the Master who is back in restored Glory.

GodsGrace

 

[Corinth77777]

and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death* in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein* few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us* (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him


...............



Correction


What it does not say is the figure that saves us now, but the like figure.

Which would be a symbol too....that a symbol saves you.

The only figure that symbolically represents the death and resurrection is water Baptism.

Therefore water Baptism saves you.
For then it would be our "appeal" for a good conscience.


So our committment to the teachings of Christ is found in alligience -water baptism.

So what about those who do not participate in the symbol but show allegiance.

God is no respector of persons anybody that does righteous is acceptable to Him.

So niether circumcision or uncircumcision avails for anything the only thing that matters is faith working by love.

Now if a person shows commitment by laying down their life for a friend, who has never been baptized in water, Wouldn't water baptism be accounted to Him?

Therefore while water baptism shows alligience and could be used as an act of faith. What about others who have already acted in faith?

Who can forbid water to those who have received the Spirit in the same way we have?

So there is my answer - your alligience to the Master who is back in restored Glory.

GodsGrace

Wait i need to correct again

 

[Corinth77777]

Wait i need to correct again

Ok back to Square one

Water baptism symbolically is putting to death the flesh. (Note: by the Spirit) spirit may represent water

So in faith symbolically putting to death the flesh then you receive the true baptism immersed or surrounded in the presence of God.

So revelation may be a key point God pouring out His Spirit on those who believe.

I suggest the pouring out of the Spirit is revelation, revelation that God is God.

And what is the rock the church is built off of ANYONE WHO RECEIVED
REVELATION OF JESUS BY GOD

 

[for_his_glory]

and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death* in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein* few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us* (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him


...............



Correction


What it does not say is the figure that saves us now, but the like figure.

Which would be a symbol too....that a symbol saves you.

The only figure that symbolically represents the death and resurrection is water Baptism.

Therefore water Baptism saves you.
For then it would be our "appeal" for a good conscience.


So our committment to the teachings of Christ is found in alligience -water baptism.

So what about those who do not participate in the symbol but show allegiance.

God is no respector of persons anybody that does righteous is acceptable to Him.

So niether circumcision or uncircumcision avails for anything the only thing that matters is faith working by love.

Now if a person shows commitment by laying down their life for a friend, who has never been baptized in water, Wouldn't water baptism be accounted to Him?

Therefore while water baptism shows alligience and could be used as an act of faith. What about others who have already acted in faith?

Who can forbid water to those who have received the Spirit in the same way we have?

So there is my answer - your alligience to the Master who is back in restored Glory.

GodsGrace

If I am understanding you correctly are you saying that literal immersion in water saves us and if so then what do you make of these below scriptures.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.


The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

 

[Corinth77777]

If I am understanding you correctly are you saying that literal immersion in water saves us and if so then what do you make of these below scriptures.

Hi, I'm just learning here.
I thought I had posted more if not I snapped a pic If I did not post more.

What I am saying is that God can use any manner of faith towards Him to save. So yes God can sanctify the water. AS in the wilderness looking up at the snake. Or Abraham who was going to kill His Son.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is in the same light. This is saying that when what is in the heart is manifested on the outside one is One. Meaning the Body and spirit/heart are one.
To confess is to own up to the condition of your Soul.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

One interpretation is we are saved by the faith/ or faithfulness of Christ.
The faith of Christ is God, And the faithfulness of Christ is He is God.
h 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So recall the act of Water baptism does not come before receiving the Spirit by believing who Jesus is. People move in response to the testimony they received. However, recall they asked Peter snd the apostles what they Must do.
First was repent, rethink your thinking in light of the new information. Next, they were to remove their sins by baptism. Then they would receive the of the holy Spirit. (And I believe here the gift is life) something I'll be looking into to study.

The Eph 2 passage is talking about regeneration -being quickened together with Christ. Reconciliation

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

True these works, rather they mean His commands we walk in. So we are first given the Spirit that we may obey it.

 

[Corinth77777]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.


The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

I believe it means you must be born of the Spirit of the one who came from above.

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

The water of the word - The water that came from Jesus at His crucifixion.

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Not sure about the Paul aspect- because again God can use any aspect of faith....Oh I see what you are trying to say now. But Jesus is the one who said you must be born of water and Spirit.
And I agree I do not believe this is Speaking of water baptism. For I believe one is born from above when they believe who Jesus is. For I believe that is how you are given the right to become what God has called, a son.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,

by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Well there's the answer right there.
So what is the washing of regenerstion. Would be nice to take this apart. But let's try this on.

AND WHAT IS THE RENEWAL OF THE HOLYGHOST LOOK LIKE.

IF HE DOES NOT SAVE US BY OUR WORKS. THEN WHOSE WORK ARE WE SAVED BY.

WELL MAYBE LETS LOOK AT THE FLOOD AS AN EXAMPLE... THE RENEWAL WOULD BE AFTER THE ARK CAME THROUGH THE FLOOD--> RESURRECTION. SO THE WASHING WOULD BE THE DEATH OF THE FLESH- THE ARK PASSING THROUGH THE WATERY WRATH, THE WATERS ABOVE AND BELOW.

ANOTHER WORDS THEY WERE SAVED THROUGH THE ARK'S ABILITY TO BE FAITHFUL.
AS WE ARE SAVED THROUGH CHRIST'S FAITHFULNESS.

SO YOU JUST ANSWERED A QUESTION..
THERE WERE 2 BAPTISMS MENTIONED IN 1st Peter 3.

SO IN THIS CASE THE PREFIGURED BAPTISM MAY JUST BE NOAH'S ARK STORY.

THIS PREFIGURED BAPTISM THAT SAVES US NOW IS CHRIST'S BAPTISM. HIS FAITHFULNESS IS THE ANSWER TO GOD FOR A CLEAR CONSCIENCE.

.....CONTINUED PASSAGE

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

(THIS COULD BE REFERRING TO HIS CONQUERING SPIRIT)

7 That being justified by his grace,

(Quickened by the Spirit)

we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

(heirs of what? His promises /Receiving the end of our faith the saving of our souls)

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Amen that goes along with what I just saw

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

agree but God can use any situational act of faith toward Him to forgive sin by those who have already believed who He is, which is how they received the Spirit.

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Grace through Christ's Faithfulness. And it is His Faith or faithfulness that I believe is the gift from God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Already answered

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

Already duscussed

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

I bet it comes on those who already believed-received His Spirit.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

ok

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

ok

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

amen

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

Tks well appreciated..

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe it means you must be born of the Spirit of the one who came from above.

The water of the word - The water that came from Jesus at His crucifixion.

Not sure about the Paul aspect- because again God can use any aspect of faith....Oh I see what you are trying to say now. But Jesus is the one who said you must be born of water and Spirit.
And I agree I do not believe this is Speaking of water baptism. For I believe one is born from above when they believe who Jesus is. For I believe that is how you are given the right to become what God has called, a son.





Well there's the answer right there.
So what is the washing of regenerstion. Would be nice to take this apart. But let's try this on.

AND WHAT IS THE RENEWAL OF THE HOLYGHOST LOOK LIKE.

IF HE DOES NOT SAVE US BY OUR WORKS. THEN WHOSE WORK ARE WE SAVED BY.

WELL MAYBE LETS LOOK AT THE FLOOD AS AN EXAMPLE... THE RENEWAL WOULD BE AFTER THE ARK CAME THROUGH THE FLOOD--> RESURRECTION. SO THE WASHING WOULD BE THE DEATH OF THE FLESH- THE ARK PASSING THROUGH THE WATERY WRATH, THE WATERS ABOVE AND BELOW.

ANOTHER WORDS THEY WERE SAVED THROUGH THE ARK'S ABILITY TO BE FAITHFUL.
AS WE ARE SAVED THROUGH CHRIST'S FAITHFULNESS.

SO YOU JUST ANSWERED A QUESTION..
THERE WERE 2 BAPTISMS MENTIONED IN 1st Peter 3.

SO IN THIS CASE THE PREFIGURED BAPTISM MAY JUST BE NOAH'S ARK STORY.

THIS PREFIGURED BAPTISM THAT SAVES US NOW IS CHRIST'S BAPTISM. HIS FAITHFULNESS IS THE ANSWER TO GOD FOR A CLEAR CONSCIENCE.

.....CONTINUED PASSAGE

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

(THIS COULD BE REFERRING TO HIS CONQUERING SPIRIT)

7 That being justified by his grace,

(Quickened by the Spirit)

we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

(heirs of what? His promises /Receiving the end of our faith the saving of our souls)

Amen that goes along with what I just saw

agree but God can use any situational act of faith toward Him to forgive sin by those who have already believed who He is, which is how they received the Spirit.

Grace through Christ's Faithfulness. And it is His Faith or faithfulness that I believe is the gift from God.

Already answered

Already duscussed

I bet it comes on those who already believed-received His Spirit.

ok

ok

amen

Tks well appreciated..

So many times we make it so hard to understand what the baptism of Christ is, especially with all the various teachings that are out there. It would do us better for understanding such things by emptying our mind of what others try to teach us and search the scriptures for our self praying and asking the Holy Spirit teach us all truths.

John’s baptism was for the showing of one who repented of their sins first and then symbolized of actual water that they were made clean again. It was not for the receiving Jesus or the Holy Spirit as Jesus ministry hadn’t started yet and the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. When Jesus was baptized of John it was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority to start His ministry here on earth. Water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have been made righteous through Christ and have receive the Holy Spirit as we are given Gods power and authority through His grace to be His servants and witness here on Earth as Christ was.

Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Mark 10:39; 16:15,16; Acts 2:38 It is Gods Spirit that was in Christ and which we are now baptized or have received as the disciples did on the day of Pentecost as when Jesus ascended into Heaven the Holy Spirit came down and fell on those who received Jesus and his word. The baptism that Jesus and Peter was talking about was a Spiritual rebirth through Gods word, not water, Luke 3:16, as Peter taught it was through repentance and accepting Jesus and his teachings is when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:36-38 we have to believe first and through confession, Romans 10:9,10, we are given the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-48 The Holy Spirit already fell on the disciples while they were listening to Peter. (No water involved)

Acts 19:1-7 John’s baptism was for repentance and the Holy Spirit was not received nor even heard of yet until the day in the upper room that Jesus was raised up to Heaven and the Holy Spirit fell down on all of them in that room. John baptized with water unto repentance but only as a symbolic sign that one had already repented of their sins and were washed clean by Gods grace.

This is what Smith's Bible dictionary says:
To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.

 

[Corinth77777]

1 Peter 3 kjv

14But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
........

Ok so let me go with what I believe I got now with help of more scripture references.

The baptism that saves us now is Christ's Faithfulness. His resurrection

No longer about reconciliation, but about life, immersed in the presence of God

If you look those people were dealing with day to day circumstances under persecution. I mentioned day to day specifically because as they remained in the teachings of Christ they would rejoice in suffering, have long life and see good days.

Baptism is what we identify with. And in identifying with rejoicing and abundant life it's in reference to Christ's resurrection, the conquering of death, and where He now sits.

Christ's Life
So this is an every day Baptism to remain in the one that is Faithful. And yes by renewal of the mind with the right thoughts or teachings of Christ.

Lets see if this scripture applies.
Thou our outward man is perishing the inward man is being renewed day by day

2 Cor 4

7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 8We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 12For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 12So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

13We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. 15For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

16For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 17For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Corinth77777]

My last thoughts today comes by the way of this scripture. Hopefully something to be studied.

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

*By faith

*Through faith

What would be the difference

 

[Tulipbee]

Note: Im a learner trying things on. Here to discuss with those that want to come to an answer.

The more I see 1 Peter 3:21 from surrounding passages. I am coming to believe that the baptism that saves us now is: God ____________________________________


Now First thing I probably need to look up is the term itself. But instead I am going to make a claim and either prove it true or false. With others who are searching for truth.

My answer is quickened by the " Spirit"

Which makes the presence of God our baptism
1 Peter 3 kjv

and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death* in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein* few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us* (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him
........................................................................
Verse 16 is about having a good conscience before man or God? My guess is man.. if you do what is right and someone accuse you the accuser should be ashamed.

So a good conscience before man is in -your righteous acts before man

He went to preach to the souls in prison because He was quickened by the Spirit vs 18

(One way I see that is by Him setting captives free.)

The reason I crossed out the passage is because they were all prepositions

So then we can automatically connect vs 18 to 21

But quickened By the Spirit...... the baptism doth also save us

Remember the so called great commission
Surround(baptise, identify, immerse)them in the presence of the holy trinity ( the name of the father, son, and holy ghost)

Ok Jesus was quicken by who? The SPIRIT

Question? Was removal of dirt off the skin ritual washings? Well what would be our ritual washing that gives us a clear conscience before God? JESUS Christ the resurrected.>>>>Christ Jesus

So is this talking about being baptized into His Death, or being immersed into His life?

But quickened by the Spirit, is the like figure...." "BUT" quickened by the Spirit>>the baptism that saves us.

Jesus said He always did what was pleasing to the father and the father never left Him alone.

John 15
Abide

Righteous acts before man are only done in Christ- as we submit our bodies dead.
As our hearts are purified by obeying the word.

Wait but righteous acts before God are caused by God based on the Love of God all found in Christ.

yet if our bodies our dead then the only way to live is by His life....So what does it mean to walk in the newness of life? One It shows whereever Jesus is we are, ruling with Him, next to the father ...Alive by the Spirit. Immersed in the presence of The holy trinity.

So if we are walking in the newness of life we are living by the power of the Holyghost. GOD who has manifested Himself in three distinct persons.




Just remember im trying this on...so don't eat me alive scholars.

The Baptism that saves is God.
God is I am that I am.
So Is God his presence? I'd like to think so

So lets use what is new to me Identification

Recall there where to words that were under baptism- to temporarily dip, and one that had to do with permanent change.

So dip the pickle in boiling water and immerse it in vinegar...recall from other post

What did the pickle identify with when it was permanently changed? The vinegar Solution?

IF WE STAY SURROUNDED IN THE PRESENCE OF God (his life)what would we identify with?

His Glory?
His Peace?
His Love?
His Joy?
His patience

And who can eat from these fruits people

In the end I believe the prefigured baptism is the quickening by the Holy Spirit.

And the Baptism is God (or God's life)who gives us a clear conscience before God..

Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life

My thoughts GodsGrace

Responding to Corinth77777 regarding 1 Peter 3:21 in Calvinism
Commendable Approach:

First, I commend Corinth77777 for their approach to exploring 1 Peter 3:21. Their willingness to learn, openness to debate, and focus on finding truth are admirable qualities for seeking theological understanding.

Interpretation of 1 Peter 3:21:

Corinth77777's proposed interpretation of 1 Peter 3:21 as referring to God's presence as the baptism that saves us now is thought-provoking and aligns with certain strands of Calvinist theology. Here's a breakdown of their arguments and how they compare to Calvinist perspectives:

Quickening by the Spirit: Connecting verses 18 and 21, Corinth77777 sees the Holy Spirit's quickening work as the essence of saving baptism. This aligns with Calvin's emphasis on the Holy Spirit's role in regeneration and the new birth.

Good conscience toward God: The passage mentions a good conscience as a key element of baptism. Calvin interprets this as inward assurance of justification and union with Christ, facilitated by the Holy Spirit's regenerating grace.

Baptism not outward ritual: Corinth77777 distinguishes the spiritual reality of baptism from external water rituals. This resonates with Calvin's rejection of baptismal regeneration, emphasizing faith and the Holy Spirit's work over mere ceremony.

Identification with God's presence: Immersed in God's life, we identify with His attributes and bear fruit. This aligns with Calvin's understanding of sanctification as progressive conformity to God's image through the Holy Spirit's indwelling.

Calvinist Resources:

To further explore these ideas, here are some Calvinist resources:

John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion: Book III, Chapters 11-16 deals with baptism and regeneration.
Westminster Confession of Faith: Chapter 28 on the sacraments, specifically 6-7 on baptism, clarifies its spiritual significance.
Bavinck, Herman. Reformed Dogmatics. Volume 4, Chapter 17 delves into baptism and its spiritual implications.
Points for Further Discussion:

Role of outward baptism: While internal reality is prioritized, Calvinism affirms the symbolic importance of water baptism as an outward sign of inward regeneration. How does Corinth77777's view integrate this aspect?
Relationship between Spirit and Christ: While the work of the Holy Spirit is highlighted, Calvinism emphasizes Christ's atoning sacrifice as the foundational ground for salvation. How can these be balanced in understanding baptism?
Ongoing nature of salvation: While quickening happens once, sanctification is a lifelong process. How does this apply to the concept of baptism as ongoing God's presence?
Conclusion:

Corinth77777's interpretation raises valuable questions and offers insights into the meaning of 1 Peter 3:21 within a Calvinist framework. Further study and discussion, engaging with theological resources, can enrich understanding and lead to a more nuanced appreciation of this complex passage.

 

[Corinth77777]

So many times we make it so hard to understand what the baptism of Christ is, especially with all the various teachings that are out there. It would do us better for understanding such things by emptying our mind of what others try to teach us and search the scriptures for our self praying and asking the Holy Spirit teach us all truths.

John’s baptism was for the showing of one who repented of their sins first and then symbolized of actual water that they were made clean again. It was not for the receiving Jesus or the Holy Spirit as Jesus ministry hadn’t started yet and the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. When Jesus was baptized of John it was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority to start His ministry here on earth. Water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have been made righteous through Christ and have receive the Holy Spirit as we are given Gods power and authority through His grace to be His servants and witness here on Earth as Christ was.

Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Mark 10:39; 16:15,16; Acts 2:38 It is Gods Spirit that was in Christ and which we are now baptized or have received as the disciples did on the day of Pentecost as when Jesus ascended into Heaven the Holy Spirit came down and fell on those who received Jesus and his word. The baptism that Jesus and Peter was talking about was a Spiritual rebirth through Gods word, not water, Luke 3:16, as Peter taught it was through repentance and accepting Jesus and his teachings is when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:36-38 we have to believe first and through confession, Romans 10:9,10, we are given the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-48 The Holy Spirit already fell on the disciples while they were listening to Peter. (No water involved)

Acts 19:1-7 John’s baptism was for repentance and the

Holy Spirit was not received nor even heard of yet until the day in the upper room that Jesus was raised up to Heaven and the Holy Spirit fell down on all of them in that room.

This is something to think about that may help change a view point.

So what do you think happended here below?

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

...
In this passage he says



But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.



Now rather He blew the Holy Spirit or Holyghost must matter.

In my opinion in which I would like to prove true or false. I believe that those who believed who Jesus was received the Holy Spirit.

And then on the day of Pentecost the Holy ghost fell on all who had the Spirit.


Kjv
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Kjv
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

I just look at Jesus, what happen at His baptism?
He obviously believed God, And the Holy Ghost annoited Him with Power...

SO SOUNDS LIKE SAME WOULD HAVE HAPPENED

John baptized with water unto repentance but only as a symbolic sign that one had already repented of their sins and were washed clean by Gods grace.

This is what Smith's Bible dictionary says:
To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is something to think about that may help change a view point.

So what do you think happended here below?

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

...
In this passage he says



But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.



Now rather He blew the Holy Spirit or Holyghost must matter.

In my opinion in which I would like to prove true or false. I believe that those who believed who Jesus was received the Holy Spirit.

And then on the day of Pentecost the Holy ghost fell on all who had the Spirit.


Kjv
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Kjv
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

I just look at Jesus, what happen at His baptism?
He obviously believed God, And the Holy Ghost annoited Him with Power...

SO SOUNDS LIKE SAME WOULD HAVE HAPPENED

How could one receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when this was not available before the day of Pentecost when Jesus ascended up to heaven and then sent down the Holy Spirit, John 14:26; Acts 2.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

John’s baptism was for the showing of one who repented of their sins first and then symbolized of actual water that they were made clean again. It was not for the receiving Jesus or the Holy Spirit as Jesus ministry hadn’t started yet and the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. When Jesus was baptized of John it was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority to start His ministry here on earth. Water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have been made righteous through Christ and have receive the Holy Spirit as we are given Gods power and authority through His grace to be His servants and witness here on Earth as Christ was.

Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance. John said I must decrease and Jesus increase. John's water baptism was only for repentance as being prepared for the coming of the Lord as the water represented the washing away of sin, or as John put it "prepare ye the way of the Lord". It is not clear in scripture that Jesus ever baptized anyone in water even though He first came to John's water baptism as a fulfillment of prophecy as He had to identify with humanity even though He had no sin. This was the beginning of Christ ministry as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him that day as God gave Him full power and authority here on earth and there after Jesus went about teaching the disciples as it was not Jesus who the Pharisees heard that He baptized more than John did, John 4:1-3 but His disciples baptizing others in water for remission of sin after the death of John the Baptist as all together they would have baptized others in water for the remission of sin then John could at one time. Jesus could not baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost after He ascended up to the Father and the Father sent down the indwelling Holy Spirit, Acts 2.

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water (word of God) that no one can enter into the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the hearing of the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

 

[LovethroughDove]

The Holy Spirit baptism is the baptism that saves........baptized into the family of God

John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Matthew 16:15-17 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your that God raised him from the , you will be saved.

John 14:15-17 " If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - The Spirit of truth

Matthew 3:15-17 Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. at that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

John 14:20 "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."

I did a progression of what happens. Seek truth (the actual truth), The Father will give you revelation of Jesus, Revelation will cause your eyes to be opened. You understand why Jesus is Lord and that it's true he didn't remain dead. When you truly believe this, he asks the Father to give you the Spirit and you are baptized into his baptism. You can say "Abba Father" cause you are a child of God now. You will follow Christ to the cross in your life also, cause he is the Way.

The Holy Spirit baptism is our inheritance given on the day you are born again into the family of God.

 

[Corinth77777]

How could one receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when this was not available before the day of Pentecost when Jesus ascended up to heaven and then sent down the Holy Spirit, John 14:26; Acts 2.

I don't have the answers. Thats why this is a study.

Is it possible that they had the holy Spirit with them but not yet indwelled them? I need references.

I dont believe it was A baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I believe it was a baptism of the Holy Ghost.

So what I needed was scriptures to prove the Holy Spirit was not in people who believed who He was before His ascension. If not "in" was He with?

Either the Holy Spirit was given to all who believed when they believed.

Or

The Holy Spirit was given when they were baptized with the Holyghost

Or

Was it the Holyghost that was given and would indwell a believer.

Or

The HolyGhost overshadowed all who would receive the Holy Spirit

Or
the Holyghost overshadowed the believer (as Mary) and gives those who believe the Holy Spirit who was with them but not yet in them.

Or
What ever else I may be missing

But here is the passage you presented:

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Question how does the father "love him"

Next passage you rendered: Acts 2 kjv

Here is verse 4:
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

.....................
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
........................



He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.”

So my thoughts on all this is.. The Holy Ghost is the power of the resurrected body of Christ

Pour out of His Spirit, whose Spirit? The Spirit of God? So if you received the Spirit of God, then the Holyghost, the power of the Glorified body of Christ is poured out and one has revelation.

My question is not when one receieves the Baptism of what you called the Holy Spirit.
But when one actually receives the Holy Spirit.
As for all my "or" earlier.

I asked that because He pours "out of" His Spirit what seems to be the Holyghost. (POWER)
is"REVELATIONAL POWER" POURED OUT

 

[walking]

NOTHING BUT JESUS CHRIST CAN SAVE US!!

I WAS BAPTISED BY THE HOLY GHOST BUT WITHOUT JESUS JUST WINGING IT AND NOW THE 2ND HOLY GHOST LEAD ME TO HIM.

"WINGING" IT!!

 

[Corinth77777]

How could one receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when this was not available before the day of Pentecost when Jesus ascended up to heaven and then sent down the Holy Spirit, John 14:26; Acts 2.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit.

I have not made any suggestions that there is anything wrong with immersion.

What I do think is: people move to act in what they believe

Rather that act of faith was water baptism, or something else.

I also can imagine that when they came out of the water that they entered a new life. And that was the Baptism/ Identification that saves us now. Surrounded in the presence of God. LIFE,
ENTERING INTO THE KINGDOM.

But this has not been developed ...

Im still trying to understand when one receives the Spirit of God? Is it with them, and then at the act of faith , rather it be water baptism or some other act, comes to dwell in them?

When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

John’s baptism was for the showing of one who repented of their sins first and then symbolized of actual water that they were made clean again. It was not for the receiving Jesus or the Holy Spirit as Jesus ministry hadn’t started yet and the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. When Jesus was baptized of John it was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him to receive Gods power and authority to start His ministry here on earth. Water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have been made righteous through Christ and have receive the Holy Spirit as we are given Gods power and authority through His grace to be His servants and witness here on Earth as Christ was.

Mat 3:14 But John forbade him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance. John said I must decrease and Jesus increase. John's water baptism was only for repentance as being prepared for the coming of the Lord as the water represented the washing away of sin, or as John put it "prepare ye the way of the Lord". It is not clear in scripture that Jesus ever baptized anyone in water even though He first came to John's water baptism as a fulfillment of prophecy as He had to identify with humanity even though He had no sin. This was the beginning of Christ ministry as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him that day as God gave Him full power and authority here on earth and there after Jesus went about teaching the disciples as it was not Jesus who the Pharisees heard that He baptized more than John did, John 4:1-3 but His disciples baptizing others in water for remission of sin after the death of John the Baptist as all together they would have baptized others in water for the remission of sin then John could at one time. Jesus could not baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost after He ascended up to the Father and the Father sent down the indwelling Holy Spirit, Acts 2.

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water (word of God) that no one can enter into the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the hearing of the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

 

[Corinth77777]

NOTHING BUT JESUS CHRIST CAN SAVE US!!

I WAS BAPTISED BY THE HOLY GHOST BUT WITHOUT JESUS JUST WINGING IT AND NOW THE 2ND HOLY GHOST LEAD ME TO HIM.

"WINGING" IT!!

Explain please