Corinth77777
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Well we disagree
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The Baptism that saves us Now
- Thread starter Corinth77777
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Very simple answer. Acts 2:38. You receive the gift of the Holy Ghost upon baptism.
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Corinth77777
Member
WHAT IS THE GifT?
Was there a baptismal pool in the upper room that day when they were all filled with the Holy Spirit? There is John's baptism in water only for repentance, prepare you the way of the Lord, and then their is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that only came on the day of Pentecost when Christ was taken up and sent down the Holy Spirit. I explained all of this with scripture. Two different baptism's.
That's easy to answer because the scripture itself says what the gift is. People don't read carefully enough and ad a result think this is referring to a spiritual gift, one or all of those listed in 1Cor 12:8-10, but it the scripture doesn't say you'll receive a gift of the Spirit nor is it plural, but rather the scripture says you'll receive THE gift of the Holy Ghost, meaning the Spirit itself; it's the indwelling of the Holy Ghost/Spirit you receive upon baptism into Christ. This is why the scriptures also teach that by the laying on of the apostle's hands, the Spirit became manifest (gifts) came to those baptised believers upon whom the apostles laid their hands.
Read again more carefully and you see who the Spirit fell upon on the day of Pentecost; it was the apostles. You must trace it back all the way to the promise Jesus made to them recorded in Luke 24:49 wherein they were told to tarry in Jerusalem until they received power from on high. Read then carefully then through Acts from the beginning and you'll see it was the apostles only upon which the Spirit fell which enabled them to speak in other tongues.
Consecrated Life
Member
Anyone who claims the power of the sinful flesh of a third party as being equal to God in facilitating the transaction of redeeming the soul from death unto eternal Life, which is a two party transaction that can only take place between God's hand and the individual has no clue what water baptism represents.
And by their bastardizing of the original intent in order to empower the sinful flesh of third parties as being vital to salvation they have moved over to the same dark doctrine of hell , that brought the Roman Catholic church to the place they are today in assuming the power of sinful flesh supersedes God's singular Power & grants human flesh the spiritual right to bless homosexuality.
Dec 18, 2023 ... The Vatican said on Monday in a landmark ruling approved by Pope Francis that Roman Catholic priests can administer blessings to same sex couples
And by their bastardizing of the original intent in order to empower the sinful flesh of third parties as being vital to salvation they have moved over to the same dark doctrine of hell , that brought the Roman Catholic church to the place they are today in assuming the power of sinful flesh supersedes God's singular Power & grants human flesh the spiritual right to bless homosexuality.
Vatican approves blessings for same-sex couples in landmark ruling
Dec 18, 2023 ... The Vatican said on Monday in a landmark ruling approved by Pope Francis that Roman Catholic priests can administer blessings to same sex couples
I will have to respectfully disagree as what we read in the below scriptures states there were 120 gathered together in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost in one accord in prayer and supplication. All 120 disciples of Christ, men and women, received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that day.
Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zeolites, and Judas the brother of James.
Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty).
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
All means all 120 men and women as they were all in one accord and as the Holy Spirit filled the whole room they all were filled with the Holy Spirit. It's not only the 12 disciples, but all are called to be disciples of Christ as they pick up their cross and follow Him. The twelve Apostles were just the first 12 that were called of Jesus to follow Him. From the day of Pentecost we all have that same commission that was given to the first 12 to first be filled with the Holy Spirit and take His word out into the world.
You skipped some important things and passages. Read again. It wasn't all 120. Below is an explanation I provided to someone else on this topic.
Yes! And who was that referring to? The apostles.
Read from Luke 3:16, to Luke 24:49, then to Acts 1:4-5, then to Acts 2:1-4, then to Acts 2:16-17, and then read the various accounts of the apostle's, having the power from on high and subsequently by the laying on of THEIR hands, enabled the Holy Spirit to be manifested, commonly referred to as Spiritual Gifts; Acts 5:12, Acts 6:6-8, Acts 8:9-19, Acts 19:6, 2 Tim 1:6. The Holy Spirit baptism was upon the apostles as stated in Acts 2 above. The anomalies are Acts 2 and 10 wherein the Spirit fell miraculously as validation from heaven so as to start the church in Jerusalem (Jews 1st) and Caesarea (Gentiles).
Corinth77777
Member
Good points tks..going to look into that
Corinth77777
Member
My Goal is to find if the gift of Holy Gjost is Life...Rivers flowing out of the Belly, revelation.
Goal is to find what Peter meant of "Promised to children"
But takes process of elimination
Can you provide any scripture to validate this statement?
How about a scripture that teaches us there is an “apostolic age”?
JLB
The gift of the Holy Ghost, the indwelling, is the Spirit of God living or indwelling in the baptized believer. We are his at that point, bought and redeemed by his blood.
I already gave you Acts 1:4-5; 2:1-4 and 2:16-17.
Luke 3:16 and Luke 24:49 has nothing to do with what happened to the 120 in the Upper Room on the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit filled the room that day and fell on everyone in that room which Peter numbered 120. But you believe as you will as I am moving on.
We do not have the Apostles to lay their hands on us in order to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit so apparently we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, beginning on the day of Pentecost, through repentance and being baptized into Christ then God indwells us with His Holy Spirit and also fire, which means power.
Look closely at what Matthew and Peter wrote
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Follow the they and them from Luke 24:49. It's the apostles mot the 120. And Luke 3:16 absolutely does. It's the promise statement regarding the falling of the Holy Ghost made by John the Baptist.
Who is " them" in Acts 1:4? The apostles. Then the very next verse, 5, repeats John the Baptist's ststement. Then continue reading from verse 6 and follow the "they" and "them". It's still referring to the apostles. Then continue reading the rest of the chapter to chapter 2. The "they" and "them" is still the apostles. There's only a passing mention as a matter of record about the 120 deciples in Acts 1:15, but they are NOT the "they" and "them". Note too that the very book of Acts is about the Acts of the Apostles, as the complete title reads.
You're again mistaken. You don't need the apostles to lay hands on people to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That happens at the time of baptism per Acts 2:38. The laying on of the apostle's hands caused the manifestation of the Spirit as the scriptures clearly show.
Corinth77777
Member
Okay I wanted to Finish what I started- Speaking out Loud studying- of course this was not for those that had an answer. For myself I don't have to be correct, and I hope I am learning not to argue with people over what they believe. Just Maybe I'm learning patience.Note: Im a learner trying things on. Here to discuss with those that want to come to an answer.
The more I see 1 Peter 3:21 from surrounding passages. I am coming to believe that the baptism that saves us now is: God ____________________________________
Now First thing I probably need to look up is the term itself. But instead I am going to make a claim and either prove it true or false. With others who are searching for truth.
My answer is quickened by the " Spirit"
Which makes the presence of God our baptism
1 Peter 3 kjv
and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death* in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19Bywhich also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Whichsometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,whilethe ark was a preparing, wherein* few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us* (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him
........................................................................
Verse 16 is about having a good conscience before man or God? My guess is man.. if you do what is right and someone accuse you the accuser should be ashamed.
So a good conscience before man is in -your righteous acts before man
He went to preach to the souls in prison because He was quickened by the Spirit vs 18
(One way I see that is by Him setting captives free.)
The reason I crossed out the passage is because they were all prepositions
So then we can automatically connect vs 18 to 21
But quickened By the Spirit...... the baptism doth also save us
Remember the so called great commission
Surround(baptise, identify, immerse)them in the presence of the holy trinity ( the name of the father, son, and holy ghost)
Ok Jesus was quicken by who? The SPIRIT
Question? Was removal of dirt off the skin ritual washings? Well what would be our ritual washing that gives us a clear conscience before God? JESUS Christ the resurrected.>>>>Christ Jesus
So is this talking about being baptized into His Death, or being immersed into His life?
But quickened by the Spirit, is the like figure...." "BUT" quickened by the Spirit>>the baptism that saves us.
Jesus said He always did what was pleasing to the father and the father never left Him alone.
John 15
Abide
Righteous acts before man are only done in Christ- as we submit our bodies dead.
As our hearts are purified by obeying the word.
Wait but righteous acts before God are caused by God based on the Love of God all found in Christ.
yet if our bodies our dead then the only way to live is by His life....So what does it mean to walk in the newness of life? One It shows whereever Jesus is we are, ruling with Him, next to the father ...Alive by the Spirit. Immersed in the presence of The holy trinity.
So if we are walking in the newness of life we are living by the power of the Holyghost. GOD who has manifested Himself in three distinct persons.
Just remember im trying this on...so don't eat me alive scholars.
The Baptism that saves is God.
God is I am that I am.
So Is God his presence? I'd like to think so
So lets use what is new to me Identification
Recall there where to words that were under baptism- to temporarily dip, and one that had to do with permanent change.
So dip the pickle in boiling water and immerse it in vinegar...recall from other post
What did the pickle identify with when it was permanently changed? The vinegar Solution?
IF WE STAY SURROUNDED IN THE PRESENCE OF God (his life)what would we identify with?
His Glory?
His Peace?
His Love?
His Joy?
His patience
And who can eat from these fruitspeople
In the end I believe the prefigured baptism is the quickening by the Holy Spirit.
And the Baptism is God (or God's life)who gives us a clear conscience before God..
Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life
My thoughts GodsGrace
It's okay to learn from having an incorrect answer. And its okay to start off with a premise to prove it true or false...
Remember this is not done to argue with folks who have an answer. But if you do be able to explain the Specific having looked at all the angles. I for one know this is merely a study until the Holy Spirit reveals truth without doubt.
So let's begin looking at all the angles and proving true or false those angles with scripture.
I've probably took place in the share of hurting people who didn't think like me. And I just don't want to do that any more. I figure most people are seeking the truth.
In the Reformed view, Acts 2:38 underscores the importance of repentance and baptism as outward signs of an inward transformation brought about by the Holy Spirit. The emphasis lies not solely on the physical act of speaking in tongues, but rather on the heart's response to the preaching of the Gospel and the call to turn away from sin and embrace Christ. While tongues may have been one manifestation of the Spirit's presence in the early church, their significance must be understood within the broader context of Scripture and the overarching message of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.