Is Being Against Tatoos the Law?

[OhFarouk]

I agree with Farouk.
Christian liberty is at stake here and only a legalist will try to take that away from us.
I am a soldier for Christ and I fight for the liberty that Jesus gave us when he died on the cross for us.

allenwynne:

Well, I would tend to agree.

I think it needs to be seen that among Christians, there is likely to be a wide variety of preferences and practices. For example, for some people, who have tattoos already, being converted to Christ will mean no more tattoos, as tandemcpl says, and this is great.

For others, it won't necessarily. This is what Jeni Ruth said:

[quote=Jeni Ruth]I guess for our family the question of whether or not to be tattooed was already made as I had 12 tats and my hubby had 4 when we were first saved. Certainly the style and reason for our tats changed after being saved. Five of our 6 kids are also inked [ages 28-35] ..(from Christian hyphen tattoos dot com ) [/quote]

For Beth Smith's family's it's kind of a bit different again, I guess:

Beth Smith[/B]]My two daughters, 18 and 17, want to get matching heart tattoos ..
We have even talked about all getting tattoos together. When my youngest turns 18, my oldest will be 19 and I will be 49. I would definitely have a cross with scripture. Here are a few of my favorite scriptures:
James 2:13
Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Romans 12:12
Be joyful in hope,
patient in affliction,
faithful in prayer.
Philippians 1:19
God bless,
Beth (from lauraleighparker dot com )

For Christian people who are deciding to take on this witness commitment by going under the needle, I find it hard to be critical.

Blessings.

 

[OhFarouk]

... I guess I come from a time when no-one had tattoos. Interesting that my children never got any either. ...

PS: MysticalJourney: About how old would your children be? because these days at 18 it's a very widespread practice to go to the parlor at around one's 18th b-day.

Blessings to you and yours.

 

[Sparkey]

A Living Sacrifice

... by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. (Romans 12:1-4, ESV)

Footnotes
[1] 12:1 Or brothers and sisters
[2] 12:1 Or your rational service
[3] 12:2 Greek age
[4] 12:2 Or what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God

We are indeed to present ourselves --and yes our bodies-- as a living sacrifice, wholly holy -and- acceptable to God. This is our Spiritual worship. But before we drill it down into the very small we will do well to first open it up and expand our view. We are to be transformed by the renewal of our mind and this is done by continuously exercising or as Paul is so famous for saying, by running the race, not just this moment, not just the next, but with the idea that we will cross the finish line.

As we continue to expand our vision regarding who "we" are --shall we start prohibiting others from joining themselves in our holy and acceptable (to God) offerings? What if a brother comes and he does not have as much money as I do, or what if he is being called out of sin, but is found destitute, or humbled, or naked and in a ditch over there somewhere? May I do as Jesus instructed when he mentioned neighbors and that Samaritan? Or must I disdain and say, "Be away for I am holier than thou..."

What was our first example? Was it not Cain and Able? And to the one who had not found favor, what was said?

This is the first command: That we love God. Part of our showing this is holiness for He said, "Be thou holy for I am holy." I must agree and would not hesitate to say, "Depart sin and eschew evil." Yet this is the second that is commended, yea commanded: That we love others even as we love ourselves. Some may wish to speak of things that God calls abominations. To those God states, "An uneven scale is an abomination" (Prov 11:1).

What one of us does not have almost infinite grace for our past "mistakes" and even if we do wrong, then again and again do what is evil, and even if what we do is without any evidence of it ever stopping? How do we deal? How do we cope with God's call to holiness then? We may still count on God who is greater than our heart. It is His longsuffering toward usward that we count as our salvation and we are indeed admonished to offer service and worship as we present our bodies.

My suggestion is that the fact that you are part of the body of Christ and in you is being formed the Mind of Christ. I would further suggest that it is okay and right for me to take notice of this fact and to withhold my tongue from performing service for the accuser of the brethren. Who made me the worthy judge? I reject this notion.

There is a difference between encouragement and holiness so-called. I tend to think in large terms first. Clean the inside first. Remove the plank first. That sort of thing. Frankly there is too much for me to do in that regard and I am utterly dependent on the sacrifice of another man's body for me.

The Full Assurance of Faith

... since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

(Hebrews 10:19-22, ESV)
Footnotes
[1] 10:19 Or brothers and sisters

My body is purchased by the price paid by the body of another. That is the same price paid for your body. It is by one man to remove sin from all.

After considering these things --and I might say, "only after considering all these things," may we then turn to the finer and more detailed things.



~Sparrow

 

[OhFarouk]

We are indeed to present ourselves --and yes our bodies-- as a living sacrifice, wholly holy -and- acceptable to God. This is our Spiritual worship. But before we drill it down into the very small we will do well to first open it up and expand our view. We are to be transformed by the renewal of our mind and this is done by continuously exercising or as Paul is so famous for saying, by running the race, not just this moment, not just the next, but with the idea that we will cross the finish line.

As we continue to expand our vision regarding who "we" are --shall we start prohibiting others from joining themselves in our holy and acceptable (to God) offerings? What if a brother comes and he does not have as much money as I do, or what if he is being called out of sin, but is found destitute, or humbled, or naked and in a ditch over there somewhere? May I do as Jesus instructed when he mentioned neighbors and that Samaritan? Or must I disdain and say, "Be away for I am holier than thou..."

This is the first command: That we love God. Part of our showing this is holiness for has He not said, "Be thou holy for I am holy." I must agree and would not hesitate to say, "Depart sin and eschew evil." Yet this is the second commend: That we love others as we love ourselves. What one of us does not have almost infinite grace for our past "mistakes" and even if we do then again and again without any evidence of it ever stopping? We may still count on God who is greater than our heart. It is His longsuffering toward usward that we count as our salvation and we are indeed admonished to offer service and worship as we present our bodies.

My suggestion is that the fact that you are part of the body of Christ and in you is being formed the Mind of Christ. I would further suggest that it is okay and right for me to take notice of this fact and to withhold my tongue from performing service for the accuser of the brethren.

There is a difference between encouragement and holiness so-called.

~Sparrow

Hi Sparrowhawke:

I agree with what you say and I also think that tandemcpl is expressing the sincere thoughts of his heart as someone who has maybe changed his mind on the issue.

Jeni Ruth, referred to earlier, has clearly take a slightly different route:

I guess for our family the question of whether or not to be tattooed was already made as I had 12 tats and my hubby had 4 when we were first saved. Certainly the style and reason for our tats changed after being saved. Five of our 6 kids are also inked [ages 28-35] ..(from Christian hyphen tattoos dot com )

I can thoroughly respect both points of view.

Blessings.

 

[Sparkey]

Hi Sparrowhawke:

I agree with what you say and I also think that tandemcpl is expressing the sincere thoughts of his heart as someone who has maybe changed his mind on the issue.

Blessings.

I've not changed my mind even though it may sound for a moment that the tune I'm singing has changed. It hasn't. We are told to consider the weaker brother and it is an exceptional person who desires to follow after Jesus even as Paul admonished while speaking of the responsibility that those who are stronger have; that they never put a stone of stumbling in the path of those who follow.

The Lord is dealing with me in this ... I'm not off the hook. Still asking for prayer, that I might be given wisdom and the strength to follow well.

Cordially,
Sparrow

 

[tandemcpl]

We are indeed to present ourselves --and yes our bodies-- as a living sacrifice, wholly holy -and- acceptable to God. This is our Spiritual worship. But before we drill it down into the very small we will do well to first open it up and expand our view. We are to be transformed by the renewal of our mind and this is done by continuously exercising or as Paul is so famous for saying, by running the race, not just this moment, not just the next, but with the idea that we will cross the finish line.

As we continue to expand our vision regarding who "we" are --shall we start prohibiting others from joining themselves in our holy and acceptable (to God) offerings? What if a brother comes and he does not have as much money as I do, or what if he is being called out of sin, but is found destitute, or humbled, or naked and in a ditch over there somewhere? May I do as Jesus instructed when he mentioned neighbors and that Samaritan? Or must I disdain and say, "Be away for I am holier than thou..."

What was our first example? Was it not Cain and Able? And to the one who had not found favor, what was said?

This is the first command: That we love God. Part of our showing this is holiness for He said, "Be thou holy for I am holy." I must agree and would not hesitate to say, "Depart sin and eschew evil." Yet this is the second that is commended, yea commanded: That we love others even as we love ourselves. Some may wish to speak of things that God calls abominations. To those God states, "An uneven scale is an abomination" (Prov 11:1).

What one of us does not have almost infinite grace for our past "mistakes" and even if we do wrong, then again and again do what is evil, and even if what we do is without any evidence of it ever stopping? How do we deal? How do we cope with God's call to holiness then? We may still count on God who is greater than our heart. It is His longsuffering toward usward that we count as our salvation and we are indeed admonished to offer service and worship as we present our bodies.

My suggestion is that the fact that you are part of the body of Christ and in you is being formed the Mind of Christ. I would further suggest that it is okay and right for me to take notice of this fact and to withhold my tongue from performing service for the accuser of the brethren. Who made me the worthy judge? I reject this notion.

There is a difference between encouragement and holiness so-called. I tend to think in large terms first. Clean the inside first. Remove the plank first. That sort of thing. Frankly there is too much for me to do in that regard and I am utterly dependent on the sacrifice of another man's body for me.



My body is purchased by the price paid by the body of another. That is the same price paid for your body. It is by one man to remove sin from all.

After considering these things --and I might say, "only after considering all these things," may we then turn to the finer and more detailed things.



~Sparrow

Good afternoon, Sparrow,

Please correct me if I’m in error, but it sounds like you are suggesting that I am negatively judging those with tattoos. I have reread all my posts and I can find nowhere where I have judged anyone.

The question was asked “Should Christians have tattoos?” and I gave my answer (opinion) and supported it with Scripture. Earlier in this thread I wrote, “I answered no to the Question “Should Christians have tattoos?” only because there wasn’t a choice that read, “Should Christians get tattoos?” I don’t believe Christians should get tattoos, but many have them, including me.”

I don’t judge those that have tattoos; however, if asked, I will stick to the same answers I gave here. I don’t think Christians should get tattoos.

2 Cor. 5:17
Romans 12:1-2
1 Peter 1:14-16

Be blessed.

Toby

 

[OhFarouk]

What I also think needs to be considered usefully is that the practice is very prevalent and for Christian young people the option of getting faith based ink is sometimes intermixed with family custom:

Well, at age 17, my son wanted a tattoo....being that I have "ONE"..I sat my son down and we talked....I got my first tattoo when I was 46..I along with my father who at the time was 71 and my three sisters all got our first tattoo together...we all got a family tattoo. And just this past year, ..my 71 year old mother got one .. I told him that if he did get a tattoo, that I would not only go along with him, but I would also pay for it under one condition...that I had to approve of the tattoo...his design was a cross with a banner on it ..How could I not approve? (source: circleofmoms.com )

Given the prevalence of such family circumstances and practices, I would find it extraordinarily hard to criticize Christian young people if they decided to get faith based designs tattooed.

Blessings.

 

[OhFarouk]

Also, it's clear that Christian women who have frequently posted on these forums recognize the issue to be one of gender equality:

While I would never get a tattoo, I don't have a problem with the idea of a Christian woman getting one on her ankle, calf, shoulder or arms... just not that big a deal to me.

The gender aspect should be the same for a women or a man, but since you did say a women then I would have no problem with that of a women owning her own parlor, but needs to be discreet.

Whatever one's personal tastes may be, the fact that women today exercise tattoo equality seems to be recognized, including by Christian women.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Given the prevalence of such family circumstances and practices, I would find it extraordinarily hard to criticize Christian young people if they decided to get faith based designs tattooed.

Blessings

And that seems to be the problem these days...opinions about things in the Church are based on popularity instead of truth.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Also, it's clear that Christian women who have frequently posted on these forums recognize the issue to be one of gender equality:





Whatever one's personal tastes may be, the fact that women today exercise tattoo equality seems to be recognized, including by Christian women.

Blessings.

It's clear that you're pushing an agenda in favor of tattooing in the church. so why don't you answer my question that I've asked twice now?

In Romans 14 is Paul teaching that we are free to bring pagan practices into our worship of God, or just that it was okay, for example, to eat a side of beef sold at the local Temple of Jupiter (as long as it didn't offend another believer)?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

farouk,

Should you be pushing this agenda in a forum where 78% of poll participants think a Christian should NOT get a tattoo.

What is the answer to that question in light of Romans 14?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Good afternoon, Sparrow,

Please correct me if I’m in error, but it sounds like you are suggesting that I am negatively judging those with tattoos. I have reread all my posts and I can find nowhere where I have judged anyone.

The question was asked “Should Christians have tattoos?” and I gave my answer (opinion) and supported it with Scripture. Earlier in this thread I wrote, “I answered no to the Question “Should Christians have tattoos?” only because there wasn’t a choice that read, “Should Christians get tattoos?” I don’t believe Christians should get tattoos, but many have them, including me.”

I don’t judge those that have tattoos; however, if asked, I will stick to the same answers I gave here. I don’t think Christians should get tattoos.

2 Cor. 5:17
Romans 12:1-2
1 Peter 1:14-16

Be blessed.

Toby

We live in a time when having an opinion that differs from someone else is automatically defined as 'judging' (condemning) that other person. The church has adopted this godless thinking too.

Toby, you are the exact example of why I do not condemn Christians with tattoos. It's impossible to judge someone based on the evidence of past decisions that simply can not go away. As you show, just because the evidence of past decisions is still visible to others doesn't mean a person is still in the same vein of thought about those things. Especially true for tattoos for obvious reasons.

 

[Sparkey]

Good afternoon, Sparrow,

Please correct me if I’m in error, but it sounds like you are suggesting that I am negatively judging those with tattoos.
Be blessed.

Toby

Greetings Toby,

No, I was not in fact making any suggestion about you. Perhaps this little bit of confusion may be cleared up as you realize that you've entered into a conversation that is being held with 'OhFarouk' as a host to a thread that is 400+ posts long. He and I (and others of course, including you also) are in turn also entering into an even larger conversation; one that has gone on for thousands of years (not to mention the numerous conversations that have been hosted her over a couple years or so). Mostly? I like to welcome people.

WELCOME, TOBY! (*smile*)

So while it may appear that I'm addressing you specifically (because I quoted you or because something that you've said was used as a 'springboard' into the larger conversation(s), it is appearance only and not my intent at all to isolate or make anybody here feel like they were picked on.

In other words, I don't even try to read minds.

Cordially,
Sparrow

 

[Sparkey]

Was this the lady that was depicted near Puget Sound, together with your son? in the profile photo-files on the old site? Seems like she's fashionable with the piercing as well as with the tattoos, anyway.
Blessings to you and yours.

Thank you for the salutation and the requested blessings. I think you're referring to one of my daughter-in-laws (I have three). She is at this time unsaved and denounces Christianity.

But would I tell her, "No! You can't ever consider asking God to forgive your sin, unless or until you have your tats removed,"??​

I think you know the answer to this. There would be joy in heaven and in me should she choose a path that offers eternal life.

So yes, I do appreciate the words, "blessings to you and to yours," as this is also my prayer.

~SparrowHawke

 

[OhFarouk]

It's clear that you're pushing an agenda in favor of tattooing in the church. so why don't you answer my question that I've asked twice now?

In Romans 14 is Paul teaching that we are free to bring pagan practices into our worship of God, or just that it was okay, for example, to eat a side of beef sold at the local Temple of Jupiter (as long as it didn't offend another believer)?

Jethro:

I don't think I've ever said that anyone should get a tattoo. (What I think you're almost demanding that I say, is that no one should.)

Also, how does, for example, getting a Christian fish sign <>< on a wrist for witness purposes supposedly militate against the worship of God? You yourself may think that people should be stirred in their consciences against doing it. Fact is, some Christians are stirred in their consciences in favor of doing it. (A difference in viewpoints would seem generally to be consistent with Romans 14.)

Blessings.

 

[OhFarouk]

PS: As regards the quotes in post #403 from handy and for his glory (both these posters are godly Christian women who have contributed frequently), I think one would be on shaky ground to suggest that women today supposedly do not exercise tattoo equality.

Blessings.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I had a nightmare last night.
I woke up and looked in the mirror and someone had tatooed my entire face!

 

[OhFarouk]

Just a slight note of caution here, though. This mom honestly likes her daughter's tattoo and got one herself also; the daughter was under 18. I'm not saying that these women made the wrong choice; what I would suggest, though, is that parent and young person - especially under 18 - do need to be convinced first of all that the teen knows his or her own mind on the matter:

My 17 year old daughter has one and I went with her to get it done it is a nice one . I did not think I would ever get one but I did and its rather nice. from circleofmoms dot com

Blessings.

 

[OhFarouk]

NO. I just googled that one. she, my friend, has a tat of a shamrock on her neck.she is in her 40's and comes across as a lady who wants to stay in her twenties.

jasoncran: Well, I see; anyway I supplied a quote from a tattoo artist recently who said most of her clients were in the older age bracket; women in gated community golfing cliques...

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

jasoncran: Well, I see; anyway I supplied a quote from a tattoo artist recently who said most of her clients were in the older age bracket; women in gated community golfing cliques...

.

farouk, nothing new. I see them too in my city , I saw just a few Thursday and Friday. im on the barrier island till Tuesday of next week reading. you wouldn't want to see these elderly women In the nude with that tats. some are young but most of those look like biker chicks that won the lotto and still ride the hog too.