Mungo
Member
You don't even understand what the doctrine of Purgatory is.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Catholic argument against sola scriptura refuted. Willing and able to take on his replacements
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
You don't even understand what the doctrine of Purgatory is.
Mungo
Member
Well that may be your personal opinion -but that is all.
That Catholics of AD 325 would brand you a heretic, for the following dogmas, is very likely:
The Immaculate Conception of Mary: This dogma holds that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was conceived without original sin. It wasn't proclaimed until 1854 by Pope Pius IX.
The Assumption of Mary: The belief that Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven at the end of her earthly life was not formally defined until 1950 by Pope Pius XII.
Papal Infallibility: The doctrine that the pope is preserved from the possibility of error when in his official capacity he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church was only defined at the First Vatican Council in 1870.
Transubstantiation: The belief that during the Eucharist, the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ while their appearances remain the same, was not officially defined until the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215.
Mungo
Member
An opinion.
When a dogma is officially pronounced does not mean it was not believed before that.
The dogma of the Trinity was not pronounced until the Council of Nicea in 325. Even then it was further refined after that. Did no-one believe in the Trinity before that?
Your argument is worthless.
I see the Holy Trinity in Scripture, unlike those others. I believe it was taught by Christ, or I wouldn't believe it.
They kept refining the doctrine, till they caused the schism with the Orthodox. I wouldn't have accepted their later changes. Especially changing theotokos "God-bearer" into "mother of God". I consider that absurd, given God is infinite and all things exist within Him.
Mungo
Member
I see the three you posted as in Scripture.
Manonfire63
Member
You are ego flexing like a 7th grade kid on a playground, and you don't even understand that I was helping.
Just stop. Don't drag me into your games. Stop replying given you don't have anything of substance to add.
Not so!
JUSTIN MARTYR
“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).EPHRAIM THE SYRIAN
“You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]).AMBROSE OF MILAN
“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22–30 [A.D. 387]).
TIMOTHY OF JERUSALEM
“Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).Hoping for Alfred to tell your opinion of the following, no hurry
The revelation of Jesus Christ
The tradition
Or
Teaching
The word of God
Thru the apostolic church
By
Word (verbal) & scripture (written)
Amen!
(Note: teaching authority of Christ in His apostolic church, not traditions, habits, customs etc.)
Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition
Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!
The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!
Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!
Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!
Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5
The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.
The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.
One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15
We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.
Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26
And scripture supports tradition.
Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
(Only a few examples cos almost every page of the New Testament supports verbal teaching of christ or the apostles)
Verses supporting Sacred tradition in verbal form:
Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Acts 15:7
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15
Word of God preached verbally not sola scriptura:
Matt 28:19
Acts 17:13
Verbal Revelation
Gen 15:1
Ex 3:4
Ex3:14
Matt 16:16
Lk 3:2
Acts 2 Peter preached verbally
Other forms (visions, dreams, apparitions)
Matt 1:23
Lk 1:26:37
Acts 10:3 & 10:19
Acts 13:16 Paul preached verbally
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament His handiwork, a form of revelation!
The revelation of Jesus Christ
The tradition
Or
Teaching
The word of God
Thru the apostolic church
By
Word (verbal) & scripture (written)
Amen!
(Note: teaching authority of Christ in His apostolic church, not traditions, habits, customs etc.)
Sacred Tradition / apostolic tradition
Every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ and were commanded to teach to all men!
The truths revealed by Christ and commanded by Christ to be taught by the apostles to all men!
Matt 28:19 does NOT say: go and teach all men to observe “scripture alone”, it does Not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Commanded to teach not to write “scripture alone”!
Commanded tradition not “scripture alone”!
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Apostolic tradition (doctrine) Not scripture alone”!
Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5
The Authority of the apostolic church is binds the conscience of every Christian to believe the Christian faith or the truths revealed by Christ and found in the creeds, didache, dogma’s and Decree’s of apostolic councils.
The apostles are commanded by Christ to teach tradition.
One revelation of Jesus Christ!
Word (Verbal)
and
Epistle (scripture)
2 thes 2:15
We are commanded by Christ to obey tradition. Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.
Obedience of faith! Rom 16:26
And scripture supports tradition.
Example of tradition: 1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
(Only a few examples cos almost every page of the New Testament supports verbal teaching of christ or the apostles)
Verses supporting Sacred tradition in verbal form:
Matt 28:19-20
Acts 1:2-8
Acts 15:7
Rom 16:26
1 cor 11:23
2 thes 2:15
Word of God preached verbally not sola scriptura:
Matt 28:19
Acts 17:13
Verbal Revelation
Gen 15:1
Ex 3:4
Ex3:14
Matt 16:16
Lk 3:2
Acts 2 Peter preached verbally
Other forms (visions, dreams, apparitions)
Matt 1:23
Lk 1:26:37
Acts 10:3 & 10:19
Acts 13:16 Paul preached verbally
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament His handiwork, a form of revelation!
Under the principle of sola scriptura, the Bible alone is the inspired and inerrant Word of God....The final authority in matters of faith. Scripture alone contains all that is necessary for salvation and the Christian life. However, sola scriptura does not deny the value or use of non-divine data in general matters such as historical, scientific, or cultural understanding.
Strange doctrine to claim the Bible alone and then reject what it actually says? 2 thes 2:15
An accusation:
Word of God excludes the need for councils and their decrees.
They had the living word of God, Jesus Christ truth itself and still there was a council and decree, Matt 16 which of the apostles would date as the heretics do to say: we cannot accept what Peter says, it ain’t scripture! Peter’s revelation from the father cannot be trusted say the heretics, it’s not scripture, nor can we trust Matt 3:17 or accept it cos when it happened it was not not scripture! They had the Old Testament scripture shy have a council in acts 15 and why accept the decree? At the time it was not scripture?
Hear the church not scripture alone
Acts 14 full of verbal tradition
Sola scriptura problems.
1) scripture does not tell us what constitutes scripture. The cannon of Protestant tradition? The canon of Jewish tradition? Or the cannon of apostolic tradition by the authority of Jesus Christ in His true church?
2) scripture does not provide lists of doctrine, or all the truths revealed by God. And only a few Decrees or anathemas. No list of the Ten Commandments, or the commandments in Matt 28:20 and acts 1:2, scriptures belong to the church to be used in Her liturgies!
3) scripture does not say all truths revealed by Christ are found in scripture, The truth shall make you free not scripture alone!
4) scripture does not limit the word of God to itself. The word of God came to Abraham, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist Lk 3:2 Peter Matt 16:17
Abraham, Moses, Peter, and John the Baptist, Mary, Joseph, paul, the apostles, did not believe the doctrine of “sola scriptura”!
Abraham:
Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Moses:
Ex 3:4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
(Word of God from God Himself not sacred scripture)
Peter:
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
(Divine revelation but not sacred scripture)
John the Baptist:
Lk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
(Word of God but not sacred scripture)
Joseph:
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. (A dream not sacred scripture)
Mary:
Lk 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(An angel not scripture)
Acts 8 an angel directs philip.
(An Angel not sacred scripture)
Paul:
Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. (Christ appeared not sacred scripture)
(None at the time they were experienced were sacred scripture, none were scripture alone!)
Good thing Abraham, Moses, John the Baptist, peter, the apostles, Paul, Mary, and Joseph did not believe sola scriptura or they would not have received the revelation of God, but the heretics say no and reject the revelation of God cos it did not come by scripture alone!
To reject the revelation of God is to reject the God of revelation!
(Such pride would rival that of satan himself, hence the source of this false doctrine!)
5) illiterate or blind people must trust a mediator to know scripture. Only one mediator? 1 Tim 2:5
(Most people were illiterate until the 20th century)
6) If we believe only that doctrine which is received or transmitted by scripture alone, then you can believe no doctrine; for it was all received by the apostles from Christ verbally and in person.
7) cannot believe God Matt 3:17 it was not scripture when the experienced it, nor what Peter received from the father Matt 16:17
Is this monstrous pride?
8) Psalm 19: The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Not scripture alone then sola scriptura is false!
9) The doctrine of scripture alone requires the original scriptures not copies or translations, only the original manuscripts are the ones inspired word of God, (scripture) and will believe scripture alone.
10) submit to the doctrine of the apostles, apostolic tradition not scripture alone! Acts 2:42
11) if you only believe, accept, and trust specifically the written word of God found only in the Protestant 66 books of scripture then you cannot and do not believe, accept, or trust God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the apostles and their successors or the one true church founded by Christ to teach all men! Matt 28:19
12) we refuse to believe what scripture itself actually says.
Verses opposing scripture alone: or faith alone, or any of the sacred Protestant dogma’s called the five solas:
Verses supporting verbal tradition:
Verses supporting the authority of the apostles and their successors:
Verses supporting the one; holy; catholic; and apostolic church:
Verses supporting a unity of Christ and his new covenant church, the mystical body of Christ have authority from Christ to teach and sanctify all men: Matt 28:19
I took over this forum from mango if your interest!
Thanks
don
Strange doctrine to claim the Bible alone and then reject what it actually says? 2 thes 2:15
An accusation:
Word of God excludes the need for councils and their decrees.
They had the living word of God, Jesus Christ truth itself and still there was a council and decree, Matt 16 which of the apostles would date as the heretics do to say: we cannot accept what Peter says, it ain’t scripture! Peter’s revelation from the father cannot be trusted say the heretics, it’s not scripture, nor can we trust Matt 3:17 or accept it cos when it happened it was not not scripture! They had the Old Testament scripture shy have a council in acts 15 and why accept the decree? At the time it was not scripture?
Hear the church not scripture alone
Acts 14 full of verbal tradition
Sola scriptura problems.
1) scripture does not tell us what constitutes scripture. The cannon of Protestant tradition? The canon of Jewish tradition? Or the cannon of apostolic tradition by the authority of Jesus Christ in His true church?
2) scripture does not provide lists of doctrine, or all the truths revealed by God. And only a few Decrees or anathemas. No list of the Ten Commandments, or the commandments in Matt 28:20 and acts 1:2, scriptures belong to the church to be used in Her liturgies!
3) scripture does not say all truths revealed by Christ are found in scripture, The truth shall make you free not scripture alone!
4) scripture does not limit the word of God to itself. The word of God came to Abraham, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist Lk 3:2 Peter Matt 16:17
Abraham, Moses, Peter, and John the Baptist, Mary, Joseph, paul, the apostles, did not believe the doctrine of “sola scriptura”!
Abraham:
Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Moses:
Ex 3:4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
(Word of God from God Himself not sacred scripture)
Peter:
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
(Divine revelation but not sacred scripture)
John the Baptist:
Lk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
(Word of God but not sacred scripture)
Joseph:
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. (A dream not sacred scripture)
Mary:
Lk 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(An angel not scripture)
Acts 8 an angel directs philip.
(An Angel not sacred scripture)
Paul:
Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. (Christ appeared not sacred scripture)
(None at the time they were experienced were sacred scripture, none were scripture alone!)
Good thing Abraham, Moses, John the Baptist, peter, the apostles, Paul, Mary, and Joseph did not believe sola scriptura or they would not have received the revelation of God, but the heretics say no and reject the revelation of God cos it did not come by scripture alone!
To reject the revelation of God is to reject the God of revelation!
(Such pride would rival that of satan himself, hence the source of this false doctrine!)
5) illiterate or blind people must trust a mediator to know scripture. Only one mediator? 1 Tim 2:5
(Most people were illiterate until the 20th century)
6) If we believe only that doctrine which is received or transmitted by scripture alone, then you can believe no doctrine; for it was all received by the apostles from Christ verbally and in person.
7) cannot believe God Matt 3:17 it was not scripture when the experienced it, nor what Peter received from the father Matt 16:17
Is this monstrous pride?
8) Psalm 19: The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Not scripture alone then sola scriptura is false!
9) The doctrine of scripture alone requires the original scriptures not copies or translations, only the original manuscripts are the ones inspired word of God, (scripture) and will believe scripture alone.
10) submit to the doctrine of the apostles, apostolic tradition not scripture alone! Acts 2:42
11) if you only believe, accept, and trust specifically the written word of God found only in the Protestant 66 books of scripture then you cannot and do not believe, accept, or trust God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the apostles and their successors or the one true church founded by Christ to teach all men! Matt 28:19
12) we refuse to believe what scripture itself actually says.
Verses opposing scripture alone: or faith alone, or any of the sacred Protestant dogma’s called the five solas:
Verses supporting verbal tradition:
Verses supporting the authority of the apostles and their successors:
Verses supporting the one; holy; catholic; and apostolic church:
Verses supporting a unity of Christ and his new covenant church, the mystical body of Christ have authority from Christ to teach and sanctify all men: Matt 28:19
I took over this forum from mango if your interest!
Thanks
don
Iconoclast
Member
You should be worried with your sodomite affirming "pope"
No we don’t follow such things
No one says he is valid either if Benedict was forced to resign under duress it null and void and this one is not valid, we stick to the ancient faith of the apostles handed down to us. Acts 2:42
Iconoclast
Member
It is time to flee out of Babylon my friend...that system has departed from truth.
Don, I like that you have zeal, but that system is an albatross...follow scripture and get out.
If a priest blesses the Godfather is he approving of the mafia? No!
And it’s not blessing sodomy!
Sodomy is an intrinsically evil act and forbidden
Marriage is blessed but that does not prevent them from committing adultery, but the blessing of marriage does not promote adultery.
And blessings are under the administration of the church.
I’ll parrot saint Peter,
Jn 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
There is and can only be one true:
One God
One Christ
One Savior
One Spirit
One king
One Mediator
One Christian Religion
One New Covenant
One Church / body of Christ
One teaching Authority of apostles
One Gospel
OneVineyard
One Kingdom
One House of God
One Household of faith
One Baptism
One Redemption
One Justification
One Sanctification
One Salvation
Only Jesus Christ had authority to found the holy church on Peter and the apostles and their successors all others are heretical sects of the tradition of men!
Which sect would you prefer I run too?
Instead I’ll run to the loving arm
Mother Mary the refuge of sinners!
The Ark of Salvation!
The church is founded by Christ and the sacraments are instituted by Christ for the salvation of all men!
The church and Jesus are one: acts 9:4 Jn 15:1-5 eph 5:32
The church and the sacraments are necessary for and the means of salvation and the life of grace!
Redemption: Eph 2
Justification: Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Acts 2:38
Sanctification: Jn 1:16 Jn 10:10 Jn 15:5
Salvation: Matt 24:13 Rom 13:11
The body of Christ:
1 Corinthians 12:27
The one true church:
Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16
The household of faith:
Gal 6:10
The house of God:
1 Tim 3:15
The church of the living God:
1 Tim 3:15
The kingdom of God on earth:
Dan 2:44 Matt 6:33 Matt 16:18 Matt 12:28 Mk 1:15 Jn 3:3-5 Acts 8:12 1 Cor 4:20 Col 4:11 1 Thes 2:12 Rev 1:9 12:10
The new and eternal covenant:
The one fold of Christ:
The new covenant body of Christ church is an ark, the ark of Peter, the ark of Noah was a type, all those outside the ark died, and all those outside the church die spiritually, there is no life outside of Noah’s ark and there is no spiritual life or salvation outside of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!
1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21
Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
One God
One Christ
One Savior
One Spirit
One king
One Mediator
One Christian Religion
One New Covenant
One Church / body of Christ
One teaching Authority of apostles
One Gospel
OneVineyard
One Kingdom
One House of God
One Household of faith
One Baptism
One Redemption
One Justification
One Sanctification
One Salvation
Only Jesus Christ had authority to found the holy church on Peter and the apostles and their successors all others are heretical sects of the tradition of men!
Which sect would you prefer I run too?
Instead I’ll run to the loving arm
Mother Mary the refuge of sinners!
The Ark of Salvation!
The church is founded by Christ and the sacraments are instituted by Christ for the salvation of all men!
The church and Jesus are one: acts 9:4 Jn 15:1-5 eph 5:32
The church and the sacraments are necessary for and the means of salvation and the life of grace!
Redemption: Eph 2
Justification: Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Acts 2:38
Sanctification: Jn 1:16 Jn 10:10 Jn 15:5
Salvation: Matt 24:13 Rom 13:11
The body of Christ:
1 Corinthians 12:27
The one true church:
Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16
The household of faith:
Gal 6:10
The house of God:
1 Tim 3:15
The church of the living God:
1 Tim 3:15
The kingdom of God on earth:
Dan 2:44 Matt 6:33 Matt 16:18 Matt 12:28 Mk 1:15 Jn 3:3-5 Acts 8:12 1 Cor 4:20 Col 4:11 1 Thes 2:12 Rev 1:9 12:10
The new and eternal covenant:
The one fold of Christ:
The new covenant body of Christ church is an ark, the ark of Peter, the ark of Noah was a type, all those outside the ark died, and all those outside the church die spiritually, there is no life outside of Noah’s ark and there is no spiritual life or salvation outside of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!
1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38
Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21
Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Iconoclast
Member
There is no special class of priests now, like in the OT. we are all believer priests now.
rev1 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Sprinkling that mafia child did not make him saved by his baptism, did it? Every catholic funeral, the false priest declares that the deceased was saved by his baptism, not true.
They way the cover up for those foul "priests" it is hard to tell.
yes it is. So where did the Pope speak out urging the sodomites to repent???
You know Don, I cannot expect you or any other RC. to defend this indefensible "pope".I am just pointing these things out to you, to say that there is a life of faith outside of that false teaching church..
Correct , but an adulterous person is to be put out of the church, unless and until they repent.
I know you are taught that, Where was the blessing at the time of Sodom and Gomorrah?
You need to follow what peter said, leave the false teaching church and follow Jesus in a God glorifying church.
I agree with most of this, why are you so sure he is a valid pope?
The new covenant has ministerial priests with a hierarchy and the royal priesthood of the faithful see below
Christ as high priest and head of the new covenant church, the mystical body of Christ sets up a hierarchy!
The Mosaic covenant had two priesthoods:
Arron and His successors: high priests over the low ( ministerial order) priests, the Levites:
The common priesthood of the people: ex 19:6
There are two new covenant priesthoods: priesthood in scripture is plural.
“Jesus Christ is high priest of the (ministerial) order of melchisedec”.
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3
Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” “low priests” under the authority of Christ the “high priest”!
With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”
The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24
Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9
Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant!
The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Old Israel:
Ex 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
New Israel:
1 pet 2:5-9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Apostles / bishops were ordained priests by Jesus Christ at the last supper: 1 cor 11:24-26
do this in memory of me. offer this in memory of me, the Passover was a sacrifice. Ex 12:27 1 cor 5:6-8
Worship:
Adoration: rev 7-12
Propitiatory reparation: Jn 1:29
rom 3:25 1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
Thanksgiving: Phil 4:6
Petition: Phil 4:6
Spirit and truth:
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Offering the eternal sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of all men!
There are two parts of the priesthood in the new covenant church:
In the order of Melchisedec,
Christ high priest:
His apostles low priests: or
Ministerial priesthood:
and the royal priesthood of Christians.
Christ is Eternal priest:
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Christ is High priest:
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Low priests / priesthood:
There must be low priests in the same order for a high priest to be over them. And the word in scripture “priesthood” is plural.
Jn 20:21-23 apostles have authority to forgive sins.
Christians Required to Confess you’re sins.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Arron and His successors: high priests over the low ( ministerial order) priests, the Levites:
The common priesthood of the people: ex 19:6
There are two new covenant priesthoods: priesthood in scripture is plural.
“Jesus Christ is high priest of the (ministerial) order of melchisedec”.
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3
Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” “low priests” under the authority of Christ the “high priest”!
With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”
The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24
Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9
Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant!
The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Old Israel:
Ex 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
New Israel:
1 pet 2:5-9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Apostles / bishops were ordained priests by Jesus Christ at the last supper: 1 cor 11:24-26
do this in memory of me. offer this in memory of me, the Passover was a sacrifice. Ex 12:27 1 cor 5:6-8
Worship:
Adoration: rev 7-12
Propitiatory reparation: Jn 1:29
rom 3:25 1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
Thanksgiving: Phil 4:6
Petition: Phil 4:6
Spirit and truth:
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Offering the eternal sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of all men!
There are two parts of the priesthood in the new covenant church:
In the order of Melchisedec,
Christ high priest:
His apostles low priests: or
Ministerial priesthood:
and the royal priesthood of Christians.
Christ is Eternal priest:
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Christ is High priest:
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Low priests / priesthood:
There must be low priests in the same order for a high priest to be over them. And the word in scripture “priesthood” is plural.
Jn 20:21-23 apostles have authority to forgive sins.
Christians Required to Confess you’re sins.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Iconoclast
Member
I know you agree, because you read your bible.
No such set up has taken place, You are blending ideas to try and rationalize the OT. priesthood, into the NT.
No...he reigns as our Prophet, Priest, and King.