False teaching like the five solas?
Why do the so-called reformers Luther, Calvin etc. defend the dogmas of Mary?
Mother of God:
Immaculate conception:
Perpetual virgin:
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Catholic argument against sola scriptura refuted. Willing and able to take on his replacements
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
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Why do the so-called reformers Luther, Calvin etc. defend the dogmas of Mary?
Mother of God:
Immaculate conception:
Perpetual virgin:
Iconoclast
Member
bible verses used correctly are good.
What you post about them is rubbish.
Iconoclast
Member
Your Mary Idolatry is quite foul.
So Christ is not our salvation? Lk 2:30
You are violating the eight commandment!
I never said anything about idolatry!
Or worship of Mary!
Automatic fundamentalist brainwashing!
The name of Mary automatically means idolatry!
Her name to those in the camp of heretics is bitterness, but ti those in the communion of saints is sweetness, mother of divine grace!
In the camp of heretics there are accusations of sinner, Goddess, Idolatry, False Worship, and Blasphemy:
In the communion of saints the sweetness of salvation.
The mother of our salvation.
Our lady, queen, and advocate.
Song of Solomon 1:2
Smelling sweet of the best ointments. Thy name is as oil poured out: therefore young maidens have loved thee.
Oil in the camp of heretics burns but
In the communion of saints it is healing balm.
Song of Solomon 2:1 I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys.
2 As the lily among thorns, so is my love among the daughters.
Zephaniah 3:14-17: 'Sing aloud, O daughter of Sion ... The Lord is in your midst ... Do not fear, O Sion, the Lord your God is in your midst (your womb), a warrior who gives victory'. So in Luke 'hail' means rejoice, with messianic joy, and Mary, 'favoured one' or 'full of grace' is seen as the Daughter of Sion, who realizes the hopes and longings of Israel's history, and in a more wonderful way the Lord will be in her midst.
"The knot of Eve's disobedience, says Irenaeus, 'was untied by Mary's obedience, and in her obedience Mary became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race'
Jerome: death thru eve, life thru Mary!
daughter of Zion" (Mic 4:8), in "the poor of Yahweh" (Ps 9), in "the strong woman" (Sir 26:2) who works for the regeneration and salvation of the people.
Fair above the other virgins
Mary as a virgin, but this time she was cradling in her arms her newborn son, who was the Son of God.
Lk 1:48 “all generations (Christians) shall call me blessed”!
Do the so-called reformers also commit idolatry?
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."
Martin Luther
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God."
John Calvin
——
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
Note: an article of faith is required for salvation.
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
I hope you don’t sing “Silent Night” tonight cos that’s got to be idolatry!
Round yon Virgin, Mother and child!
Or
What child is this in Mary’s lap is sleeping!
I know you think Catholics say merry Christmas! But we’re really saying Mary Christmas!
You just try having Christmas without her!
The Lord is with her! (Mary) Lk 1:28
Christmas btw is the mass (liturgy) of the nativity of Christ!
Mary Christmas!
Round yon Virgin, Mother and child!
Or
What child is this in Mary’s lap is sleeping!
I know you think Catholics say merry Christmas! But we’re really saying Mary Christmas!
You just try having Christmas without her!
The Lord is with her! (Mary) Lk 1:28
Christmas btw is the mass (liturgy) of the nativity of Christ!
Mary Christmas!
electedbyhim
Member
You do understand that Mary was a sinner in need of a Savior, right?
Anyhow, is this even on topic?
The Holy Ghost overshadows and conceives in the Sinless immaculate full of grace tree the sinless immaculate fruit, the holy son of God!
The holy feast is of our sweet saviors birth lasts for twelve days!
The twelve days of Christmas!
Also the feast of St. Stephen!
Mary Christmas!
The carol of the 12 days of Christmas is really a catholic catechism (teaching) formed under the bloody reign of terror in the English so-called reformation under the witch Elizabeth so-called queen!
The twelve days of Christmas song was written during a time of persecution in England between 1558 and 1829 as a catechism song for young Catholics who were forbidden to practice their faith. Each number signifies a teaching of our Faith. The song can be understood on two different levels - the literal meaning of the words, which appear harmless enough to a stranger, and the hidden meaning behind those words which expressed the religious beliefs of a people who could have been killed on account of their Catholic faith.
1st Day
“True Love” represents God and “me” the baptized soul. The “partridge in a pear tree” is Jesus, symbolically shown as a mother partridge pretending injury to lure predators away from her nestlings. The mother dies to protect her young.
2nd Day
“Two turtle doves” are the Old and New Testaments of the Bible;
Noah brought two of every kind of species into the Ark;
When Mary and Joseph presented the Child Jesus in the Temple, they offered two turtle doves (Luke 2:24).
3rd Day
“Three French Hens” were beautiful and costly birds in those days. They represent faith, hope and charity, which can be given by God alone;
They also represent the three persons of the Blessed Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit;
And also the three days Christ spent in the tomb. 4th Day
The “Four Calling Birds” are the four Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
5th Day
The “Five Golden Rings” are the first five books of the Bible known as the Law, Torah or Pentateuch;
and the five wise and five foolish virgins.
6th Day
The “Six Geese A Laying” are the six days when God created everything
7th Day
The “Seven Swans A Swimming” represent the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety, and Fear of the Lord; Seven are appointed to assist the Apostles (Acts 6:3);
Peter asks Jesus whether he should forgive his brother seven times (Matthew 18:21, Luke 17:4) and Jesus answers that he should forgive 70 times seven, i.e., forgive with no limit;
The Israelites marched seven days around Jericho with seven priests blowing seven horns (Jos 6:1); the seventh year is the year of the Sabbath;
The Seven Sacraments: Baptism, Confession, Holy Communion, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, Anointing of the Sick;
The seven Deadly Sins: Pride (Ecc 10:15), Covetousness (Luke 12:15), Lust (Eph 5:5), Anger (Jos 1:19), Gluttony (Galatians 6:8), Envy (Story of Joseph in the Old Testament), Sloth (Revelation 3:15);
The seven Sorrows of Mary: the Prophesy of Simeon, the Flight into Egypt, the Loss of the Child Jesus in the Temple, Mary Meets Jesus on the Way to Calvary, Jesus Dies on the Cross, Mary Receives the Dead Body of Jesus from the Cross, Mary Places the Body of Jesus on the Tomb Awaiting the Resurrection.
8th Day
The “Eight Maids A Milking” represent the eight Beatitudes in Matthew’s Gospel. 9th Day
The “Nine Ladies Dancing” refers to the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22): Love Joy Peace, Patient Endurance, Kindness, Generosity, Faith Mildness and Chastity.
10th Day
The “Ten Lords A Leaping” represent the ten commandments which guide our lives;
The ten lepers cleansed by Jesus.
11th Day
The “Eleven Pipers Piping” represent the 11 faithful Apostles, not including Judas.
12th Day
The “Twelve Drummers Drumming” represent the 12 points of belief in the Apostles’ Creed;
The twelve days of Christmas!
Also the feast of St. Stephen!
Mary Christmas!
The carol of the 12 days of Christmas is really a catholic catechism (teaching) formed under the bloody reign of terror in the English so-called reformation under the witch Elizabeth so-called queen!
The twelve days of Christmas song was written during a time of persecution in England between 1558 and 1829 as a catechism song for young Catholics who were forbidden to practice their faith. Each number signifies a teaching of our Faith. The song can be understood on two different levels - the literal meaning of the words, which appear harmless enough to a stranger, and the hidden meaning behind those words which expressed the religious beliefs of a people who could have been killed on account of their Catholic faith.
1st Day
“True Love” represents God and “me” the baptized soul. The “partridge in a pear tree” is Jesus, symbolically shown as a mother partridge pretending injury to lure predators away from her nestlings. The mother dies to protect her young.
2nd Day
“Two turtle doves” are the Old and New Testaments of the Bible;
Noah brought two of every kind of species into the Ark;
When Mary and Joseph presented the Child Jesus in the Temple, they offered two turtle doves (Luke 2:24).
3rd Day
“Three French Hens” were beautiful and costly birds in those days. They represent faith, hope and charity, which can be given by God alone;
They also represent the three persons of the Blessed Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit;
And also the three days Christ spent in the tomb. 4th Day
The “Four Calling Birds” are the four Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
5th Day
The “Five Golden Rings” are the first five books of the Bible known as the Law, Torah or Pentateuch;
and the five wise and five foolish virgins.
6th Day
The “Six Geese A Laying” are the six days when God created everything
7th Day
The “Seven Swans A Swimming” represent the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety, and Fear of the Lord; Seven are appointed to assist the Apostles (Acts 6:3);
Peter asks Jesus whether he should forgive his brother seven times (Matthew 18:21, Luke 17:4) and Jesus answers that he should forgive 70 times seven, i.e., forgive with no limit;
The Israelites marched seven days around Jericho with seven priests blowing seven horns (Jos 6:1); the seventh year is the year of the Sabbath;
The Seven Sacraments: Baptism, Confession, Holy Communion, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, Anointing of the Sick;
The seven Deadly Sins: Pride (Ecc 10:15), Covetousness (Luke 12:15), Lust (Eph 5:5), Anger (Jos 1:19), Gluttony (Galatians 6:8), Envy (Story of Joseph in the Old Testament), Sloth (Revelation 3:15);
The seven Sorrows of Mary: the Prophesy of Simeon, the Flight into Egypt, the Loss of the Child Jesus in the Temple, Mary Meets Jesus on the Way to Calvary, Jesus Dies on the Cross, Mary Receives the Dead Body of Jesus from the Cross, Mary Places the Body of Jesus on the Tomb Awaiting the Resurrection.
8th Day
The “Eight Maids A Milking” represent the eight Beatitudes in Matthew’s Gospel. 9th Day
The “Nine Ladies Dancing” refers to the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22): Love Joy Peace, Patient Endurance, Kindness, Generosity, Faith Mildness and Chastity.
10th Day
The “Ten Lords A Leaping” represent the ten commandments which guide our lives;
The ten lepers cleansed by Jesus.
11th Day
The “Eleven Pipers Piping” represent the 11 faithful Apostles, not including Judas.
12th Day
The “Twelve Drummers Drumming” represent the 12 points of belief in the Apostles’ Creed;
electedbyhim
Member
Does not say she was a sinner!
Two ways of being savior, forgive sins: and to preserve us from sin:
Mary was preserved by God from sin!
Song of Solomon 4:7 Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.
Song of Solomon 6: 9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.
10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?
Christ not only saves us from our past sins by forgiveness but he also preserves us from future sin by his grace, in both cases he is savior, and Mary was preserved from original sin and from all sin to the glory of God and the praise of Jesus Christ! Lk 1:49
Since when does the Holy Ghost overshadow a sinner? Lk 1:35
Since when does the Holy Ghost conceive in a sinner? Matt 1:20
Since when does sinner bear the Holy savior? The Holy Son of God? Lk 1:35
Ex 25 see how holy, pure, and consecrated to God’s holy purpose:
Jesus Christ took flesh and blood from a sinner?
The Holy Spirit of God conceived in a sinner the eternal salvation of God and the holy Son of God?
Anything consecrated to God and His service (purposes) must be immaculate clean and pure, covered in Gold.
Immaculate conception (sinless)
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)
Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)
electedbyhim
Member
I guess reading or praying scripture in the twisted mind of a fundamentalist is idolatry cos it has the name of Mary?
Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full
Of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
The Lord is with who? Mary!
Is it a idolatry to obey scripture and call her blessed?
Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Matt 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full
Of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
The Lord is with who? Mary!
Is it a idolatry to obey scripture and call her blessed?
Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
electedbyhim
Member
The Lord is with all Christians, all Christians are blessed.
Mary the mother of God is not special / not unique!
Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
But in Mary for nine months!
King david has love of Mary!
Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.
The holy church Exalts Mary to the glory of God!
Exalted dignity and prerogatives of the divine mother:
Mary is Filled with the plenitude of divine grace. Lk 1:28
Lord is with Mary. Lk 1:28
Blessed. Lk 1:28
Mother of our savior. Matt 2:11
Mother of our salvation. Lk 2:30
Found our salvation. Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation. Lk 1:38
My soul “existence” does magnify the Lord! Lk 1:46-47
Mary practices of the virtues of Jesus Christ. Prov. 31
The immaculate conception:
Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Song of Solomon 4:7 & 6:9-10 rev 12:1
Perpetual virginity: Isa 7:14 Matt 1:21-23 Lk 1:34
Divine maternity: Lk 1:43
Assumption: rev 12:1
Mary is the ark of the covenant and the temple of God, God consecrated and dwelt in Her for 9 months and cannot be used for a ordinary purpose, and it is God who glorified his dwelling!
Mary and all the saints obtained grace, virtues, and merits from God’s infinite goodness, mercy and love and their praises end in the glory of Christ the source of all grace and of God. Jn 1:16-17 Lk 1:49
Not by nature but by supernatural grace!
Mary and the saints are what God made them not according nature but by the supernatural grace of God!
Lk 1:49
Glory to God for His mighty works and grace and mercy in His saints!
2 thes 1:10
Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30
It was Mary who found Jesus when He was lost in the temple!
The all holy God cannot unite and conceive in Mary unless she is immaculate purity!
Lk 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Anything consecrated to God must be pure, holy and for God’s service alone!
There is only one “Mother of God”!Lk 1:43
There is only one “Virgin-Mother”! Isa 7:14 perpetual virgin!
There is only one “Immaculate Conception” prepared by God for His only begotten son! Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49 Rev 12:1
There is only one “Handmaid of the Lord”! Lk 1:28
Faithful humble handmaid Lk 1:45 Lk 1:48
There is only one “Mother of our Savior” who consented to our salvation undoing the sin of Eve! Lk 1:38
Mary found our salvation lost by Adam! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
There is only one “woman” who seed crushes satans proud head Gen 3:15 and is queen in heaven! Rev 12:1
electedbyhim
Member
Believe as you will, interpret the Scriptures as you will.
Your doctrine has been debunked time and time again, and I do not mean just on this forum.
I am done here, moving on.
Grace and peace to you.
What is the rule of faith? Or source of truth that all must believe?
Dogma’s, decree’s, & creeds!
255 catholic Dogmas or thee faith revealed by Christ! Jude 1:3
The Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church binding all Christians to true faith. Matt 16-19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou (Peter) shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt 18:18
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye (apostles) shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Short & concise statements of the Christian faith.
The apostolic authority is in unity with Christ.
Jn 15:5 apart from me you (apostles) can do nothing.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ…
Jn 8:32 And ye (apostles) shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
The holy apostolic church invokes the Holy Ghost!
Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you (apostles) into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Decree’s of apostolic councils!
Binding the faith of all Christians.
Four authentic creeds of the Christian church:
Apostles creed:
Nicene creed:
Athanasius creed:
Chalcedon creed:
Faith / doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Jn 8:32 And ye (the apostles) shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you (the Apostles) into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Then they must teach us! Matt 28:19
255 catholic Dogmas or thee faith revealed by Christ! Jude 1:3
The Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church binding all Christians to true faith. Matt 16-19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou (Peter) shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt 18:18
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye (apostles) shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Short & concise statements of the Christian faith.
The apostolic authority is in unity with Christ.
Jn 15:5 apart from me you (apostles) can do nothing.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ…
Jn 8:32 And ye (apostles) shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
The holy apostolic church invokes the Holy Ghost!
Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you (apostles) into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Decree’s of apostolic councils!
Binding the faith of all Christians.
Four authentic creeds of the Christian church:
Apostles creed:
Nicene creed:
Athanasius creed:
Chalcedon creed:
Faith / doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Jn 8:32 And ye (the apostles) shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you (the Apostles) into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Then they must teach us! Matt 28:19