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How do Messianic Jews interpret Romans 11:7ff "All Israel is Saved" even those who died enemies of the Gospel?

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Let's review:

These are the specific Scriptures you reject: There is no hope to find truth after the grave. All men are judged by works done before the grave. Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days, not in hell. The rich son of Abraham could not passover to his father Abraham.

You add preaching to the after death judgment of men's works.

You change your doctrine to accommodate disobedient sons tormented in hell.

You turn to old Jewish traditions and fables for support. As well as original language manipulation, rather than accept the plain words of God like any honest little child.
If you want to discuss postmortem opportunity for salvation, go to this thread. I won't reply here unless it treats the OP directly.

 
Let's review:

These are the specific Scriptures you reject: There is no hope to find truth after the grave. All men are judged by works done before the grave. Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days, not in hell. The rich son of Abraham could not passover to his father Abraham.

You add preaching to the after death judgment of men's works.

You change your doctrine to accommodate disobedient sons tormented in hell.

You turn to old Jewish traditions and fables for support. As well as original language manipulation, rather than accept the plain words of God like any honest little child.
The three "You"s!!!

"I feel like I've been beaten with a wet noodle!"

Try to answer my objections to your claims here, and please discuss the scripture I cited in support of postmortem opportunity:

 
If you want to discuss postmortem opportunity for salvation, go to this thread. I won't reply here unless it treats the OP directly.

No problem. I generally try to avoid the appearance of personal accusation, but keeping to gneral doctrine. But I have no problem with saying you reject explicit Scripture and inplicity change Scripture, in order to your preach your own doctrine.

And you also probably do so for the same reason as the unrepented sinners, that want to hedge their bets for another chance to repent after the grave.

Do you believe you are saved forever while still doing some of your old unrepented sins and trespasses?
 
The three "You"s!!!
Nevermind. I thought you wanted to be addressed personally, and now I see you object to it.

"I feel like I've been beaten with a wet noodle!"

Try to answer my objections to your claims here, and please discuss the scripture I cited in support of postmortem opportunity:

Already did.
 
More than a dozen scriptures disagree. Click the [#A] after each Bible reference for the exegesis:

Various Scriptures where Postmortem Opportunity is explicit or implicit:

Dt. 32:39 [#A]; 1Sam. 2:6 [#B]; 2Sam. 22:5-7 [#C]; Ps. 16:10-11 [#D]; Ps. 30:3-6 [#E]; Ps. 40:1-3 [#F]; Ps. 49:12-15 [#G]; Ps. 56:13 [#H]; Ps. 68:18-20 [#I]; Ps. 69:13-18 [#J]; Ps. 71:19-23 [#K]; Ps. 86:13 [#L]; Ps. 102:18-22 [#M]; Ps. 116:1-9 [#N]; Hos. 13:14 [#O]; Jon. 2:1-10 [#P]; Zec. 9:9-11 [#Q]; Mt. 12:30-32[#R]; John 5:28-29[#S]; Rm. 11:25-36[#T]; 1 Pt. 3:18-22[#U]; 1 Pt. 4:6[#V]; 1 Cor. 5:5[#W]; Eph. 4:8-10[#I]; Heb. 9:27-28[#X]; Rev. 20:11-15[#Y];[#Z]

And scripture never contradicts. If a scripture contradicts what YOU thought was a bible teaching, your teaching is not of God.
The word "Israel" is being used as a parable.

Romans 9:4
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
 
The word "Israel" is being used as a parable.

Romans 9:4
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
Even when I agree "Israel is being used as a parable" in Romans 9:3-8, it sets up the Gentiles (who have the promise of God's salvation in Jesus because through Abraham the earth is blessed) as being part of the "so all Israel is saved" without contradicting some of "Israel" has died "enemies of the gospel" yet in death are "shown mercy" because the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable :

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. (Rom. 9:6-8 NKJ),,,

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. (Rom. 11:17 NKJ)...

23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
(Rom. 11:23-25 NKJ)

The "fullness of the Gentiles" hasn't "come in" (to the Israel of God) until the End Time, implying some "children of the flesh" who are "children of God" "do not continue in unbelief" after physical death. "All Israel" includes all since the beginning of Time, to the end of time.

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
(Rom. 11:26-32 NKJ)

Therefore, even when your premises are accepted, universal postmortem opportunity for "all Israel" is taught in this context as it requires "some of those who died enemies of the gospel" will be shown Mercy at Christ's Second coming, when the deliverer comes "out of Zion".
 
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Hello Alfred Persson and CherubRam.
"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Gen.32:28 KJV

Israel is a Prince who has power with God and men and prevails. That's a good description of our Savior Jesus. 🙂

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Mt.2:15 KJV

Israel is also the children of God who follow Christ.
 
Hello Alfred Persson and CherubRam.
"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Gen.32:28 KJV

Israel is a Prince who has power with God and men and prevails. That's a good description of our Savior Jesus. 🙂

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Mt.2:15 KJV

Israel is also the children of God who follow Christ.
I agree:

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal. 6:16 NKJ)

As many as walk according to this rule (unlike those who do not Gal. 6:12), peace and mercy be upon them and upon the "new creation" (Jew and Gentile) "Israel of God":

12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal. 6:12-16 NKJ)
 
I agree:

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal. 6:16 NKJ)

As many as walk according to this rule (unlike those who do not Gal. 6:12), peace and mercy be upon them and upon the "new creation" (Jew and Gentile) "Israel of God":

12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (Gal. 6:12-16 NKJ)
Yes. The Messiah gives peace to His us. He offers it to this world but they must accept His terms.
 
The word "Israel" is being used as a parable.

Romans 9:4
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
Correct
all Isreal is a allegory, a symbol, of The Holy Remnnant
after Yeshua has His Kingdom established, all Israel = no more religion that is set against God's Kingdom.
If we read the bible via english we will get confused.
The greek is critical.
All Israel = The Holy Remnant. 12 Tribes Yet One Israel, no more divisions.
 
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