Understanding Mary - Queen of Heaven

[JLB]

Can you prove that those people are worshipping?

Bowing down in front of a statue with arms lifted toward it or bowing down with hands together in a sign of prayer, is proof enough.


It is beginning to appear that you are going to deny any scripture or any pictures about this matter.


Those who serve the queen of heaven are serving other gods.

• We will surely keep our vows that we have made, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.” You will surely keep your vows and perform your vows!’

Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying: ‘You and your wives have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled with your hands, saying, “We will surely keep our vows that we have made, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.” You will surely keep your vows and perform your vows!’ Therefore hear the word of the LORD, all Judah who dwell in the land of Egypt: ‘Behold, I have sworn by My great name,’ says the LORD, ‘that My name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, “The Lord GOD lives.” Behold, I will watch over them for adversity and not for good. And all the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, until there is an end to them. Jeremiah 44:25-27



JLB

 

[JLB]

No you didn't. And I asked "Can you prove that those people are worshipping?"
Obviously you can't

Here they are again —

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Were these people down on their knees before a statue of Mary?



JLB

 

[Mungo]

Bowing down in front of a statue with arms lifted toward it or bowing down with hands together in a sign of prayer, is proof enough.

No it isn't. And you haven't shown that it is.

Worship is something that comes from the heart and you do not know a persons heart.

Bowing is giving honour and in the examples you have they are giving honour to the person represented by the statue. You have no proof of anything different.

It is beginning to appear that you are going to deny any scripture or any pictures about this matter.


Those who serve the queen of heaven are serving other gods.

• We will surely keep our vows that we have made, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.” You will surely keep your vows and perform your vows!’

Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying: ‘You and your wives have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled with your hands, saying, “We will surely keep our vows that we have made, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.” You will surely keep your vows and perform your vows!’ Therefore hear the word of the LORD, all Judah who dwell in the land of Egypt: ‘Behold, I have sworn by My great name,’ says the LORD, ‘that My name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, “The Lord GOD lives.” Behold, I will watch over them for adversity and not for good. And all the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, until there is an end to them. Jeremiah 44:25-27



JLB

I've answered that twice already.
It is not wrong to honour the true Queen of Heaven just because some people in the past worshipped a false queen of heaven; just as it is not wrong the worship the one true God just because some people in the past worshipped false gods.

I made six numbered points in the OP and you have not addressed any of them.

 

[Mungo]

Here they are again —





Were these people down on their knees before a statue of Mary?



JLB

That doesn't constiutue worshipping the statue itself. They were directing their prayers to Mary. not the statue itself.

 

[jaybo]

Yes it is true.


No you didn't. And I asked "Can you prove that those people are worshipping?"
Obviously you can't


Idolotry is worshipping an image. We do not worship images.
Bowing is not worship. It is honouring.
We honour the person represented by the statue not the statue itself.
There is no idolatry.
.





Of course a statue cannot answer prayers. We direct our prayers to the person represented by the statue not the statue itself. Please do not be so insulting as to suggest we think a statue can answer prayers.

Please be reasonable.

"
"Bowing is not worship" and "We direct our prayers to the person represented by the statue. It is honouring" are very clear examples of idolatry.

 

[jaybo]

No it isn't. And you haven't shown that it is.

Worship is something that comes from the heart and you do not know a persons heart.

Bowing is giving honour and in the examples you have they are giving honour to the person represented by the statue. You have no proof of anything different.



I've answered that twice already.
It is not wrong to honour the true Queen of Heaven just because some people in the past worshipped a false queen of heaven; just as it is not wrong the worship the one true God just because some people in the past worshipped false gods.

I made six numbered points in the OP and you have not addressed any of them.

Can you show me a single part of the Bible that says, clearly and in context, that Mary is the queen of heaven? And please don't use Revelation, John's supernatural vision, which clearly does not refer to Mary.

 

[jaybo]

That doesn't constiutue worshipping the statue itself. They were directing their prayers to Mary. not the statue itself.

Why pray to Mary when the Bible clearly says to pray to God?

 

[Mungo]

"
"Bowing is not worship" and "We direct our prayers to the person represented by the statue. It is honouring" are very clear examples of idolatry.

No they are not.

 

[Mungo]

Why pray to Mary when the Bible clearly says to pray to God?

See this thread -

Praying to the Saints in Heaven​

 

[Mungo]

Can you show me a single part of the Bible that says, clearly and in context, that Mary is the queen of heaven? And please don't use Revelation, John's supernatural vision, which clearly does not refer to Mary.

The OP lays it out clearly.
What part of the OP is incorrect?

 

[Mungo]

I addressed the OP with scripture.


Jesus taught us this truth which pertained to His mother.

Words of Christ in red —

And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” Luke 11:27-28


Jesus responded to those who called His mother blessed.

Here is Hs response again —

“More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

More blessed than Mary are those who hear the word of God and do what it says. We should all agree on this… hearing and doing what God says.

Let’s begin agreement and base our understanding in what Jesus taught.

This is what you said in the OP.





The truth is:

More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”



While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:46-50


Jesus shows no partiality to His mother, or elevates her to some special status called “the queen of heaven”, but rather He honors those who hear and obey God as much, and even more than he does His mother Mary.




JLB

Mary heard the word of God and kept it.

 

[JLB]

That doesn't constiutue worshipping the statue itself. They were directing their prayers to Mary. not the statue itself.

Bowing down to a graven image of Mary or anything else is idolatry.

It's sad the level of denial you are exhibiting.



JLB

 

[jaybo]

Mary heard the word of God and kept it.

As have many, many Christians throughout the ages. Even some of the OT Jews kept God's word as well as they could.

 

[jaybo]

Mry was just a teenager who consented to become pregnant. She and Joseph brough up Jesus (and His brothers) fairly well, even though they lost sight of Him for several days. During Jesus' ministry he claimed others to be His true mother and brothers.

Matthew 12:46-50, "While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him. Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you.” To the one who had said this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother and who are my brothers?” And pointing toward his disciples he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” NET v2.1

 

[Mungo]

Mry was just a teenager who consented to become pregnant. She and Joseph brough up Jesus (and His brothers) fairly well, even though they lost sight of Him for several days. During Jesus' ministry he claimed others to be His true mother and brothers.

Matthew 12:46-50, "While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him. Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you.” To the one who had said this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother and who are my brothers?” And pointing toward his disciples he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” NET v2.1

This is way off topic.
If you want to discuss this then start a thread on it.
The topic is Mary - Queen of Heaven

 

[Mungo]

Bowing down to a graven image of Mary or anything else is idolatry.

Bowing is not worship, whether it's to a graven image or a person.

It's sad the level of denial you are exhibiting.



JLB

I'm denying your false claims.

Can I remind you the topic is Mary - Queen of Heaven. You seem to be trying to avoid the topic.

 

[JLB]

Bowing is not worship, whether it's to a graven image or a person.

These people are bowing down before a graven image in homage with their hands raised as well as held together in prayer.


We dont pray to graven images.

We pray to God, only.

We worship God only.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Can I remind you the topic is Mary - Queen of Heaven. You seem to be trying to avoid the topic.

I have posted scriptures that teach us about honoribg or worshipping the queen of heaven.

Please quote the scriptures where Jesus instructed us to pray to the queen of heaven.

 

[jaybo]

This is way off topic.
If you want to discuss this then start a thread on it.
The topic is Mary - Queen of Heaven

Okay. Simply stated, Mary is not Queen of Heaven (or anywhere else for that matter).

 

[Mungo]

I have posted scriptures that teach us about honoribg or worshipping the queen of heaven.

And for the 4th time
It is not wrong to honour the true Queen of Heaven just because some people in the past worshipped a false queen of heaven; just as it is not wrong the worship the one true God just because some people in the past worshipped false gods.

And as I pointed out before
I made six numbered points in the OP and you have not addressed any of them.

Please quote the scriptures where Jesus instructed us to pray to the queen of heaven.

Please quote from scripture where Jesus instructed use to do only what is exactly specified in scripture.