What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?

[Consecrated Life]

What? You need me to give you the Scripture reference? You don't remember reading Jesus' words that only the one who perseveres to the end will be saved? Matthew 24:13

Matthew 24 is Jesus speaking of end times in regard to a people living in Israel who worship a physical "holy place" .
It has no relevance to a person who has been "born again".
A Saved Christian has no physical holy place on earth that is "holy" to them.
You don't have a "holy place ", I hope ?

Mat 24:15
¶
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

 

[miamited]

Matthew 24 is Jesus speaking of end times in regard to a people living in Israel who worship a physical "holy place" .
It has no relevance to a person who has been "born again".
A Saved Christian has no physical holy place on earth that is "holy" to them.
You don't have a "holy place ", I hope ?

Mat 24:15
¶
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

Hi Consecrated Life

We have a winner. Yes, Jesus is talking about the time of the end, which is when he says we will be saved.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Matthew 24 is Jesus speaking of end times in regard to a people living in Israel who worship a physical "holy place" .
It has no relevance to a person who has been "born again".
A Saved Christian has no physical holy place on earth that is "holy" to them.
You don't have a "holy place ", I hope ?

Mat 24:15
¶
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

Hi Consecrated Life

We have a winner. Yes, Jesus is talking about the time of the end, which is when he says we will be saved.

God bless,
Ted

Only if you are a non-believing Jew living in Judaea who worships a "holy place" who is fearful for their life and has yet to be saved.

Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea
Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

So you had better hurry up and move to Judaea high speed with your like minded fearful & unsaved.
You don't want to miss that chance to "flee into the mountains" running for your life with your fellow fearful unbelievers .
You should fit right in with your fellow fearful in that end day.

Jesus having never commanded those who are already His children to fear death or to run for their lives like cowards.
Mat 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Good Luck With Your Fearful Fleeing

 

[miamited]

Hi Consecrated Life

Well, I'm not going to argue what you believe Jesus' words in Matthew 24:13 intended. Especially with your normally mean-spirited responses. The words are there and anyone who cares can read them and make their own decision as to what they mean.

Matthew 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

The question posted by the OP was what Jesus said about a saved person becoming unsaved. Well, here's one of the things that Jesus said about being saved, and I find that it brings into question our passion to declare that people are saved today in this life. I don't agree with that understanding. I believe that our name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life at some point in our lives and that none of us are saved until that time when God reads the names from that book.

The Scriptures seem to repeatedly make the point that we who believe in the testimony and sacrifice of Jesus...will be saved. That's a future reality that the believer who is faithful to the end, can take to the bank. But that believer won't be saved until the day of the Father's judgment.

Personally, when people ask me if I'm 'saved', I generally respond, that no, I'm not saved... but I am born again. And by the guarantee of the Holy Spirit I will be saved on the day of God's judgment.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life

Well, I'm not going to argue what you believe Jesus' words in Matthew 24:13 intended.

God bless,
Ted

No need to argue.
Your silence on Jesus's command concerning His own is acknowledgement you are aware that Jesus never commands His own to fear death :

Mat 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Also acknowledgement that Jesus does not command those saved to flee like unsaved cowards in need of salvation.

Mat 24:16
..... flee into the mountains:

Fearfully fleeing to take stock of just how wrong they have been.

You should fit right in.

If you were smart you would confine you posts to worldly issues were you are most at home, and stay away from matters concerning biblical Spiritual discernment .

 

[miamited]

Hi Consecrated Life

Your silence on Jesus's command concerning His own is acknowledgement you are aware that Jesus never commands His own to fear death :

Perhaps, before you go any further along this line of reasoning, you'll remind me why we're discussing 'fear of death'? I didn't even know that was what this discussion thread was about. It's your thread and you started asking about a saved person becoming unsaved. What does that have to do with this 'fear of death' thing that you're going on about?

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

hey Consecrated Life

If you were smart you would confine you posts to worldly issues were you are most at home, and stay away from matters concerning biblical Spiritual discernment .

It's 'where' not 'were'.

I think I've probably proven over and over again that I'm not particularly smart. But, I believe that when it comes to understanding the Scriptures, I do have a bit of wisdom. Now, if it suits your emotional health to continue belittling those not in agreement with you...continue on.

Honestly, from your previous post that I responded to, you don't seem particularly good at staying on point yourself.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again Consecrated Life

I just want to dispel the idea that anyone might have that I'm smart. I flunked geometry twice and the rest of my grades were in the C-D range. I didn't finish college. I've been married more than once. I'm not very smart.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life


I What does that have to do with this 'fear of death' thing that you're going on about?

God bless,
Ted

Fleeing death in "Matthew 24" which you brought to the thread , not me .
Write that down ,so you'll remember please.

What? You need me to give you the Scripture reference? You don't remember reading Jesus' words that only the one who perseveres to the end will be saved? Matthew 24:13

These people in Matthew 24 who you brought to the table are being told by Jesus to flee death.
You might as well write that down as well .
Subsequently I joined your introduction of Matthew 24 regarding it's mention fleeing death which you brought to the table , not the other way around.
Is it that you just do not recall the passages that you brought to this conversation, or is it just a lack of understanding them that causes you to blame me for Matthew 24 being introduced ?
Another glaring example as to why you should stick to worldly temporal threads.
Pulling a lone sentence from an entire chapter that Jesus ties together in detail and trying to make a bizarre application is a sure sign of your most rudimentary Spiritual discernment.
Just out of curiosity does the church that you attend teach the congregation that no one is saved until "the end" ?
What denomination is that ?
Or would you rather keep that secret ?

 

[miamited]

Hi Consecrated Life

Fleeing death in "Matthew 24" which you brought to the thread , not me .
Write that down ,so you'll remember please.

And I'm the one who isn't smart? I didn't say anything about Matthew 24 beyond referencing one statement that Jesus made concerning those being saved. And that specific statement had nothing to do with anyone fleeing to the mountains. But hey, if that's how you want to see it, it's a free country still. At least for next 9 months.

The rest of your belittling snark you can keep for yourself to show your God on judgment day what a kind and loving disciple you were for Him.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life


I didn't say anything about Matthew 24 beyond referencing one statement that Jesus made concerning those being saved. And that specific statement had nothing to do with anyone fleeing to the mountains.

God bless,
Ted

You might be on to something brand new no other person has ever thought of in your sequencing of " the end " coming before all other events as you allege .

"You don't remember reading Jesus' words that only the one who perseveres to the end will be saved? Matthew 24:13" (miamited)

The end is the " the end" is the end of everything after all , right ?
Nothing at all can happen after " the end" , right ?
When Jesus says " the end" He means "the end" right?
So why would Jesus be telling people about all these events to be looking for. abominations, & fleeing into the mountains,gospel preaching etc,etc,etc,, after He says " the end" has already happened ?

How could anything at all happen after "the end " comes ?
Jesus obviously has His whole chronology of events completely backwards and you are the first one to ever notice it dude.
I think You've made history in this discovery
Good lookin out miamited !
Uh , you are sure "the end " is "the end" aren't you ?

Mat 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

​

 

[miamited]

Hi Consecrated Life

Ok, who was Jesus referring to as 'enduring/persevering to the end'

Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life

Ok, who was Jesus referring to as 'enduring/persevering to the end'

Ted

The same people he continues referring to in verse 15 & 16 after verse 13
How is it these people are running around Judaea after "The End" has already come.
Since you brought it up , define "the end" for me ?

Mat 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[miamited]

Hi Consecrated Life

Since you brought it up , define "the end" for me ?

Well, I'm not sure if it's still in use today, but movies used to always end with a big 'THE END' across the big screen. I think that defined the end of the movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're fishing for here, but 'the end' is the last of something.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life
Well, I'm not sure if it's still in use today, but movies used to always end with a big 'THE END' across the big screen. I think that defined the end of the movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're fishing for here, but 'the end' is the last of something.

God bless,
Ted

Then how can all these other events Jesus says will happen after verse 13. . the abomination , the fleeing to the mountains, the witnessing , happen after " the end " ?


Mat 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[miamited]

Hi Consecrated Life

You know, well maybe you don't, there are a lot of prophecies of the Scriptures that don't follow any chronological order.
The Revelation of Jesus is one of the most well known.
God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Hi Consecrated Life

You know, well maybe you don't, there are a lot of prophecies of the Scriptures that don't follow any chronological order.
The Revelation of Jesus is one of the most well known.
God bless,
Ted

For what purpose would "the end" be placed out of order in this chapter "



Mat 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[Iconoclast]

Then how can all these other events Jesus says will happen after verse 13. . the abomination , the fleeing to the mountains, the witnessing , happen after " the end " ?


Mat 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,

Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

It was the end of the Jewish theocracy in70ad

 

[Tulipbee]

This also refers to your other post directed at me.
Here's what I do:
If I'm stating something Calvin believed but in my own words, I just write it out.

If I'm copying a paragraph from the institutes then I highlight it in bold, and then state the source at the end of the paragraph, stating book, chapter, paragraph. As you did above...

We also state verses from scripture when using the actual verse.....
and so on.

I think you understand now.
Also, I'd like to say that you'll be getting pushback from non-calvinists, as I'm sure you know.
But we do have a nice forum here and our members do their best to treat others with respect and civility.
If you experience any problem (which I doubt) please report the post and staff will handle it.

Thank you, GodsGrace, for the guidance and the insights into the forum's posting practices. I appreciate the clarity on referencing sources and your emphasis on maintaining respectful and civil interactions within the community. Your assurance about reporting any issues is duly noted, and I'm here to contribute positively to the discussions.
Looking forward to engaging in thoughtful conversations and learning from the diverse perspectives here. #TheologicalExplorations

 

[donadams]

Can’t lose Grace?

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Can’t lose your salvation while still in this world:

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Jn 15:1-5 abide

Matt 24:12 endure

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end.

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother