What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?

[Consecrated Life]

I say lets stay with the NT.
Does this apply to Christians?
You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Do not defraud,' 'Honor your father and your mother. '

Warnings are given to ALL.

So you have nothing of a doctrinal mission statement to offer from any church on the face of the earth advocating the life saving foundational ability to never sin ?
Really?
This despite your claim of having attended many churches that teach OSAS to be false.
How is it possible you have absolutely nothing to show of this valuable accepted doctrine being treasured by even one congregation for the purpose of saving souls ?
Not one church you can quote that imagines a world transformed starting with their own mission statement ?
Absolutely no responsibility felt by even one church you can cite to boldly share the Blessing of never sinning again in their own literature & statement of foundational beliefs .
If you really believe it to be a soul saving doctrine then a clearer case of spiritual recklessness on a group level I have only heard of going on in cults, where the more valuable the information the more reserved it is kept for only the privileged elite .
Is there something about this life saving doctrine I am not aware of that causes all congregations on earth that make it part of their doctrinal foundation to keep it top secret, and never let be seen in print, this saving truth ?

 

[Randy]

So you have nothing of a doctrinal mission statement to offer from any church on the face of the earth advocating the life saving foundational ability to never sin ?
Really?
This despite your claim of having attended many churches that teach OSAS to be false.
How is it possible you have absolutely nothing to show of this valuable accepted doctrine being treasured by even one congregation for the purpose of saving souls ?
Not one church you can quote that imagines a world transformed starting with their own mission statement ?
Absolutely no responsibility felt by even one church you can cite to boldly share the Blessing of never sinning again in their own literature & statement of foundational beliefs .
If you really believe it to be a soul saving doctrine then a clearer case of spiritual recklessness on a group level I have only heard of going on in cults, where the more valuable the information the more reserved it is kept for only the privileged elite .
Is there something about this life saving doctrine I am not aware of that causes all congregations on earth that make it part of their doctrinal foundation to keep it top secret, and never let be seen in print, this saving truth ?

Lots of words yet no scripture given with your clear understanding. John wrote those born of God , can not, continue to sin. I quoted Him. They were not my words. I stated it's not wise to teach OSAS. Warnings are given to ALL. In regard to myself I am convinced I will remain faithful.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No skill needed.
5 minutes looking at internet instructions would make you just as capable as any junior high schooler .
You are at least of junior high school age I assume .
How odd your reluctance in investing just 5 minutes to make available & to have so many see what your church does in helping people never to sin again
Especially when there is no other church on earth you can name besides yours distributing pamphlets making that specific life changing promise of never sinning again.

I found the original on my computer, so pasted it here...

ARE YOU PERFECT?
PERFECT IN CHRIST?
YOU CAN BE!

Here’s how! “Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is onto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” (Acts 2:38)
Repent…means… “to change, or, turn away from.” If you repent of sin, you are by definition a non-sinner! If you commit sin after you say you repented, it manifests that you never did repent.
Baptism…means… “to be fully immersed, or dipped in water.” If you had water sprinkled on you, (especially as a baby), you were not baptized! It must be your choice!
Paul was exhorted to “arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” (Acts 22:16) Paul says, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4) This is where a man is born again!
Receiving the Holy Ghost…Peter said, “And we are witnesses of these things, (the resurrection of Christ), and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.” (Acts 5:32)
If you are interested in pleasing God, and His Son who died for your sins, call me!

(480)334-7678
The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph.3:21)

 

[donadams]

You disagree with what John wrote not me. We are no longer slaves to sin as we have been set free. Those who continue to sin are slaves to sin which testifies they have not been set free by the Son.
Have you not read the one in us is greater than the one in the world?
Have you not read "No one can snatch them out of my hand"?

The will to sin is gone in those who belong to Christ. It's driven by "Love". Those who really believe and love the Lord obey Him. He loved us first.

I have been appointed to eternal life. I will remain faithful to Christ Jesus. I have believed in Him as far back as my memory goes and with absolute certainty. He chose me. That's not going to change. I know Him. He knows me.

"Many have been invited but few have been chosen"

If we remain faithful

 

[Hopeful 2]

That is a very foundational position to be considered either wise, or unwise to promote
Getting back to my question, what is the position of the church you attend on this very foundational matter ?

My church is not ashamed to tell the world of it's position regarding every aspect of Christianity & salvation:
Unchanged by any worldly precepts of the flesh for decades .
Have a look .
You too Hopeful .
A church not only unashamed of it's foundational beliefs , but proudly displays them for the whole world to see .
I certainly hope that you do not attend Hopeful's church which is to ashamed to release even one syllable of it's doctrinal position regarding every aspect of salvation thru Jesus Christ.
Very cultlike in it's super shadowy secrecy and fear of exposure by the Light .

​

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Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod
Adopted 1932 (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, N.D.)
Download PDF

Topics​

• Of the Holy Scriptures
• Of God
• Of Creation
• Of Man and Sin
• Of Redemption
• Of Faith in Christ
• Of Conversion
• Of Justification
• Of Good Works
• Of the Means of Grace
• Of the Church
• Of the Public Ministry
• Of Church and State
• Of the Election of Grace
• Of Sunday
• Of the Millennium
• Of the Antichrist
• Of Open Questions
• Of the Symbols of the Lutheran Church

Of Conversion

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1. We teach that conversion consists in this, that a man, having learned from the Law of God that he is a lost and condemned sinner, is brought to faith in the Gospel, which offers him forgiveness of sins and eternal salvation for the sake of Christ's vicarious satisfaction, Acts 11:21; Luke 24:46, 47; Acts 26:18.
   
   
2. All men, since the Fall, are dead in sins, Eph. 2:1-3, and inclined only to evil, Gen. 6:5; 8:21; Rom. 8:7. For this reason, and particularly because men regard the Gospel of Christ, crucified for the sins of the world, as foolishness, 1 Cor. 2:14, faith in the Gospel, or conversion to God, is neither wholly nor in the least part the work of man, but the work of God's grace and almighty power alone, Phil. 1:29; Eph. 2:8; 1:19; Jer. 31:18. Hence Scripture call the faith of men, or his conversion, a raising from the dead, Eph. 1:20; Col. 2:12, a being born of God, John 1:12, 13, a new birth by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23-25, a work of God like the creation of light at the creation of the world, 2 Cor. 4:6.
   
   
3. On the basis of these clear statements of the Holy Scriptures we reject every kind of synergism, that is, the doctrine that conversion is wrought not by the grace and power of God alone, but in part also by the co-operation of man himself, by man's right conduct, his right attitude, his right self-determination, his lesser guilt or less evil conduct as compared with others, his refraining from willful resistance, or anything else whereby man's conversion and salvation is taken out of the gracious hands of God and made to depend on what man does or leaves undone. For this refraining from willful resistance or from any kind of resistance is also solely a work of grace, which "changes unwilling into willing men," Ezek. 36:26; Phil. 2:13. We reject also the doctrine that man is able to decide for conversion through "powers imparted by grace," since this doctrine presupposes that before conversion man still possesses spiritual powers by which he can make the right use of such "powers imparted by grace."

Hmmm...No mention of perfectly obeying God !
I find that interesting.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good, then you should easily be able to post an established printed statement of the foundational doctrinal belief held by any one of the churches you claim that do so ?
It's not complicated .
Really , its not .
Please don't fall back on Hopeful's inane claim that he does not have the intellectual capacity to do what any 5th grader can accomplish on a computer.
Come up with a more original and more believable lie than his if you are going to fall on your face in accomplishing what I have already demonstrated twice now is a very simple task .

CONSECRATED,
YOU ARE BREAKING TOS RULES.
PLEASE REMEMBER:

1. IF YOU MENTION A MEMBER, PLEASE TAG HIM IN.
2. PLEASE DO NOT REFER TO OTHER MEMBERS AS LIARS.
PLEASE ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND DO NOT MAKE PERSONAL REMARKS.

THANKS.

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST IN THIS THREAD.
USE TALK WITH STAFF IF NECESSARY.

 

[Randy]

If we remain faithful

I am confident that for me I will.
You would have to disown Christ to lose Him. (One's choice not His). If one has the Spirit of Christ in them how could they not know He lives?

2 Timothy 2:13

English Standard Version
​

13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—
for he cannot deny (disown) himself.

 

[Randy]

I found the original on my computer, so pasted it here...

ARE YOU PERFECT?
PERFECT IN CHRIST?
YOU CAN BE!

Here’s how! “Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is onto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.” (Acts 2:38)
Repent…means… “to change, or, turn away from.” If you repent of sin, you are by definition a non-sinner! If you commit sin after you say you repented, it manifests that you never did repent.
Baptism…means… “to be fully immersed, or dipped in water.” If you had water sprinkled on you, (especially as a baby), you were not baptized! It must be your choice!
Paul was exhorted to “arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” (Acts 22:16) Paul says, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4) This is where a man is born again!
Receiving the Holy Ghost…Peter said, “And we are witnesses of these things, (the resurrection of Christ), and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.” (Acts 5:32)
If you are interested in pleasing God, and His Son who died for your sins, call me!

(480)334-7678
The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph.3:21)

I'm clean which is by grace not works nor would any works make me any cleaner. Washed and sanctified by the Spirit that God willed to live in me forever. Jesus is the mark of perfection. I'm not nearly there. But I live like a believer.

It's "Forever"
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever

I would state what the Holy Spirit of God touches becomes Holy.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I found the original on my computer, so pasted it here...

ARE YOU PERFECT?
PERFECT IN CHRIST?
YOU CAN BE!


Paul was exhorted to “arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” (Acts 22:16) Paul says, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4) This is where a man is born again!
Receiving the Holy Ghost…Peter said, “And we are witnesses of these things, (the resurrection of Christ), and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.” (Acts 5:32)
If you are interested in pleasing God, and His Son who died for your sins, call me!

(480)334-7678
The Church by Christ Jesus (Eph.3:21)

You consider what Paul described as a wretched decaying body of death causing him so much anguish to be perfected
How prideful of you .
Paul was not as easily deceived as you are .
He did not confuse being redeemed in the Spirit with perfection of the flesh.
He clearly stated that the sin nature remained part & parcel of His body of death occasionally causing him to sin , The newness of Life being the born again Spirit .
The newness of Life causing the occasional sin to be an intolerable Burden to him in a way never known to him before his redemption.

Rom 7:14 -18
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
The newness of Life causing the occasional sin to be an intolerable Burden to him in a way never known to him before his redemption.
Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I'm clean which is by grace not works nor would any works make me any cleaner.

Of course, as the Law has nothing to do with it.
Especially, as Paul wrote, circumcision, dietary rules, Sabbath keeping, feast keeping, or tithing.

Washed and sanctified by the Spirit that God willed to live in me forever.

The washed and sanctified, by the blood of Christ, are indeed the temple of the Holy Ghost.
God won't remain in a polluted temple, so sinners can't make the claim you do.

Jesus is the mark of perfection.

He is indeed.

I'm not nearly there. But I live like a believer.

That is confusing...you say you live like a believer, but aren't nearly there ?
How can a sanctified, washed, believer not be "there" ?

It's "Forever"

What is forever ?
"ALMOST" there ?
What will signal your arrival in Christ ?

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever

If "He" is with you, aren't you "there" ?

I would state what the Holy Spirit of God touches becomes Holy.

Sinners are not holy, illustrating that the Holy Spirit of God has not touched them...doesn't it ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You consider what Paul described as a wretched decaying body of death causing him so much anguish to be perfected
How prideful of you .

We have no idea whether or not Paul remained faithful until the end, but based on what is written of him in Acts, he remained faithfully obedient to God during the entire time his life was written of by Luke.
That qualifies as perfect !
The condition of the vessel is of no importance in how we will be judged on the last day.

Paul was not as easily deceived as you are .
He did not confuse being redeemed in the Spirit with perfection of the flesh.

Perfection of the flesh ?
I assume you are referring to the skin and bones of the vessel ?
Where did that come from ?
God will not judge us on the condition of our vessel...unless we have done some purposeful damage to it.

He clearly stated that the sin nature remained part & parcel of His body of death occasionally causing him to sin , The newness of Life being the born again Spirit .

You are mistaken there, and in fact he wrote that the reborn are completely new !
2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

The newness of Life causing the occasional sin to be an intolerable Burden to him in a way never known to him before his redemption.

The new life causes nothing but glorification of God and of His Son
You are describing the old life of the man who still walks in and after the "flesh".

Rom 7:14 -18
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
The newness of Life causing the occasional sin to be an intolerable Burden to him in a way never known to him before his redemption.
Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This plaint, from his narrative of his pre-converted self, was answered in Romans 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Are you unaware that some of Romans 7 is the story of Paul's past, while still in the "flesh".

 

[Consecrated Life]

Are you unaware that some of Romans 7 is the story of Paul's past, while still in the "flesh".

Rom 7:14 -18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good things.

Paul's affirmation that in his flesh, until the day he died, dwelt no good thing is in perfect concord with the Word of Christ
Mar 10:18
........ there is none good but one, that is, God

For me I will stand by the Word of Paul and Jesus rather than the delusional.

You are hardly the first to believe yourself to be like God in your self-promoted goodness.
It is a very old story :

Isa 14:14
I will be like the most High.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Rom 7:14 -18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good things.

Paul's affirmation that in his flesh, until the day he died, dwelt no good thing is in perfect concord with the Word of Christ

Paul had already asserted his present relationship with his "flesh" in Rom 7:5..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
Most of the remaining chapter is a narrative of his past, trying unsuccessfully to live under the Law.

Mar 10:18
........ there is none good but one, that is, God

Do you think that Jesus just said He is not good ?
I don't...besides, the words were spoken before the resurrection, and the advent of our being able to destroy the old man and be reborn to walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".

For me I will stand by the Word of Paul and Jesus rather than the delusional.

Neither Paul nor Jesus taught that anyone should keep on sinning.

You are hardly the first to believe yourself to be like God in your self-promoted goodness.
It is a very old story :

Isa 14:14
I will be like the most High.

Is it not written..."But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:5-6)

Don't be lured back into sin by scriptures that address OT men and conditions.
They could not walk in the Spirit all the time like we can, since the resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Randy]

Of course, as the Law has nothing to do with it.
Especially, as Paul wrote, circumcision, dietary rules, Sabbath keeping, feast keeping, or tithing.

The washed and sanctified, by the blood of Christ, are indeed the temple of the Holy Ghost.
God won't remain in a polluted temple, so sinners can't make the claim you do.

He is indeed.

That is confusing...you say you live like a believer, but aren't nearly there ?
How can a sanctified, washed, believer not be "there" ?

What is forever ?
"ALMOST" there ?
What will signal your arrival in Christ ?

If "He" is with you, aren't you "there" ?

Sinners are not holy, illustrating that the Holy Spirit of God has not touched them...doesn't it ?

Jesus was from above. He is the mark of perfection. I consider myself working toward that perfection. I have the Spirit of Christ in me and live as one believing in Him. The only thing you can see is that you don't know me not that I'm a sinner. God gives His Holy Spirit to those who love and obey Him. If one could lose that gift, it wouldn't be forever, would it? Yet warnings are given throughout the NT to all. OSAS was not preached even if I believe I have already been appointed to eternal life. I am convinced in that.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus was from above. He is the mark of perfection. I consider myself working toward that perfection. I have the Spirit of Christ in me and live as one believing in Him. The only thing you can see is that you don't know me not that I'm a sinner. God gives His Holy Spirit to those who love and obey Him. If one could lose that gift, it wouldn't be forever, would it? Yet warnings are given throughout the NT to all. OSAS was not preached even if I believe I have already been appointed to eternal life. I am convinced in that.

Sounds fair and rational to me.
We should be secure in our salvation otherwise there would be no joy.

But I do agree that OSAS in not a biblical teaching.

 

[donadams]

I am confident that for me I will.
You would have to disown Christ to lose Him. (One's choice not His). If one has the Spirit of Christ in them how could they not know He lives?

2 Timothy 2:13​

​

English Standard Version​

​

13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—
for he cannot deny (disown) himself.

Does that mean we can be unfaithful and still have salvation?

I’ll take a haram of 20 with plenty of nepolian brandy!

Don’t forget the mansion with swimming pool! Lol

 

[GodsGrace]

Does that mean we can be unfaithful and still have salvation?

I’ll take a haram of 20 with plenty of nepolian brandy!

Don’t forget the mansion with swimming pool! Lol

Randy s interpretation of 2 Timothy 2:13 is incorrect.

Could you explain to him?

 

[Randy]

Randy s interpretation of 2 Timothy 2:13 is incorrect.

Could you explain to him?

Which part? God remains faithful
Or
God cannot disown Himself?

 

[Corinth77777]

What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?
I am unaware of anything in this regard,

Idk what Jesus says

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life

 

[donadams]

Randy s interpretation of 2 Timothy 2:13 is incorrect.

Could you explain to him?

I can only try!