What is the difference between Spirit upon and spirit within?

[Mr. G Lee]

so wrong but I know it will be fruitless to try to prove this but there is indeed a difference

Yes, there is a difference. New testament born again believers look back to the promised glory of sufferings Christ before hand . The old testament born again saints looked ahead to the same glory by the same Spirit of faith as it is written

1 Timothy 1:9-12 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

[Godslittleservant]

There is no such a thing as "old testament born again saints"they were forgiven of their sins if they did their offerings regularly but no one was born again till after Pentecost n Acts 2 we must rightly divide the word of truth










'

 

[Mr. G Lee]

There is no such a thing as "old testament born again saints"they were forgiven of their sins if they did their offerings regularly but no one was born again till after Pentecost n Acts 2 we must rightly divide the word of truth










'

Hi I would offer at one time I was taught that also. It would seem you are adding things that are not there as if God did not demonstrate his grace beforehand looking ahead beyond the suffering to the cross we. . by the same spirit of faith (the power to raise the dead) we can faithfully look back . .

Faith power of God that works in believers

1 Timothy 1:9-12 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

They by their action a witness or testimony of God working in mankind preach the gospel to us today . Prophets sent with the gospel Able the first prophet sent as a messenger martyred.

Christ said it is finished and the resurrections gate opened all the old testament saint that were walking by a exclusive faith that comes from a hope of understanding God entererd .

Matthew 27:52-53And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[eddif]

There is no such a thing as "old testament born again saints"they were forgiven of their sins if they did their offerings regularly but no one was born again till after Pentecost n Acts 2 we must rightly divide the word of truth










'

We all are going to have to watch what we say. In a great sense I agree with you.
But
Right after the resurrection of Jesus (the 2nd Adam) Jesus preached to those saints in Abraham’s Bosom and they received a white robe and wait a while longer for The Resurrection yet to come.

Mississippi redneck.
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

We all are going to have to watch what we say. In a great sense I agree with you.
But
Right after the resurrection of Jesus (the 2nd Adam) Jesus preached to those saints in Abraham’s Bosom and they received a white robe and wait a while longer for The Resurrection yet to come.

Mississippi redneck.
eddif

Scripture, please.

 

[eddif]

Scripture, please.

1 Peter 3:18 kjv
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Saved from physical death,as a symbol of possible later eternal salvation. (Saved from eternal death).

Luke 17:20 kjv
20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would comefrom thence.
27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

A side note may present this as a parable.

That I will leave to the reader.

The gulf surrounding the grave shows problem leaving where they are, but they seem conscious of where they are.

Ask more questions with scripture.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Mr. G Lee]

1 Peter 3:18 kjv
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Saved from physical death,as a symbol of possible later eternal salvation. (Saved from eternal death).

Luke 17:20 kjv
20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would comefrom thence.
27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

A side note may present this as a parable.

That I will leave to the reader.

The gulf surrounding the grave shows problem leaving where they are, but they seem conscious of where they are.

Ask more questions with scripture.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

I would not offer that God does preach to the dead (necromancy) it’s not after their death they go to limbo until they hear the gospel .

The one who does the preaching of verse 19 is not the son of man, Jesus. He was not born until thousands of years later.

It’s Jesus who preaches, to be sure, but he preaches in the Holy Spirit in his time frame . Just as did Noah the apostle in that time period . And by the Spirit he sent Noah a preacher of the gospel. His preaching it condemned all but the 8 .Those were the spirits who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah

The timing of that declaration is not the window between the death and ascension. The demonstration of the prisoners is during the lifetime of Noah.

2 Peter 2: 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Again they were not sent to limbo or purgatory .Its appoint for all men to die once .No retrials, double jeopardy.

 

[Hopeful 2]

1 Peter 3:18 kjv
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

See the "by which" ?
That refers to the Spirit by which Jesus spoke to the long dead, during their time on earth.
Not after their deaths.
This is written of in 1 Peter 1:10-12..."Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

Saved from physical death, as a symbol of possible later eternal salvation. (Saved from eternal death).

It is a symbol for us now, but to them it was actuality.
The ark saved their lives.

Luke 17:20 kjv
20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would comefrom thence.
27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

A side note may present this as a parable.
That I will leave to the reader.

This reader won't confuse Jesus' parable for a real bosum of Abraham in which the dead wait for the day of judgement.
It would illustrate that judgement has already occurred,

The gulf surrounding the grave shows problem leaving where they are, but they seem conscious of where they are.

The gulf is an impossible to cross barrier in a parable's landscape.
I see no mention of a grave.
The folks who will be found in the book of life will have no contact with those in the lake of fire.

Ask more questions with scripture.

OK, thanks.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

This reader won't confuse Jesus' parable for a real bosum of Abraham in which the dead wait for the day of judgement.
It would illustrate that judgement has already occurred,

The day of Judgment was the letter of the law "death". Thou shall not or in dying a person would come to a end of spirit life and not rise to new life. .

Flesh returns to dust and temporal spirit given under letter of the law death returned to the Father of all spirit life

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The dead know nothing, feel nothing hear nothing.Thirst our hunger for nothing

The judgment was death according to the letter of the law the killer .. its appointed for all men to die once. No double jeopardy or mistrial.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The day of Judgment was the letter of the law "death". Thou shall not or in dying a person would come to a end of spirit life and not rise to new life. .

Flesh returns to dust and temporal spirit given under letter of the law death returned to the Father of all spirit life

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The dead know nothing, feel nothing hear nothing.Thirst our hunger for nothing

The judgment was death according to the letter of the law the killer .. its appointed for all men to die once. No double jeopardy or mistrial.

Death is represented in a few different ways, depending in the context of the mention of it.
The death mentioned relative to Noah and the ark, was physical for them at that time.
Though it was a presage of the spiritual death of those who walk in darkness now.
The death in relation to the Law, was totally spiritual.

 

[eddif]

The gulf is an impossible to cross barrier in a parable's landscape.
I see no mention of a grave.
The folks who will be found in the book of life will have no contact with those in the lake of fire.

I will try and go through this one point at a time.
Lazarus died - went to Abraham’s Bosm.

Rich Man died and was buried- was in torment. (Buried / Grave?)

Why do you not see mention of grave?

Please give scripture that negates grave LOL

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

I will try and go through this one point at a time.
Lazarus died - went to Abraham’s Bosm.

Rich Man died and was buried- was in torment. (Buried / Grave?)

Why do you not see mention of grave?

Please give scripture that negates grave LOL

Mississippi redneck
eddif

There was no real Lazarus, or rich man.
It was a parable about only having one life to live so "get it right" now before it is too late.

 

[eddif]

There was no real Lazarus, or rich man.
It was a parable about only having one life to live so "get it right" now before it is too late.

Let us go to the parable of the sower.

All the parable was about seeds and sowing. PERIOD

The answer (to the disciples) was about what the parable meant. Word of God Men’s hearts.

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man ends with their deaths. PERIOD

The information about what happened to them is not a parable, but the answer about what happened to them.

The answer is new information to afterlife. Information missing in any other place.(?)

One now knows what is going on to saints in the Old Testament. They are in a separate place from the general population.


The DNA in the seed was not mentioned in the parable of the sower.

The details of Abraham’s Bosom is not clarified in the rich man and Lazarus.

Esoteric information is sometimes slowly revealed. We see through a glass darkly, but at the resurrection face to face.

1 Corinthians 13:12 kjv
12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Basically I rejoice in what I do learn, and await the rest of the story at the end of time.

Difference in (On and In)

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Yes, there is a difference. New testament born again believers look back to the promised glory of sufferings Christ before hand . The old testament born again saints looked ahead to the same glory by the same Spirit of faith as it is written

Isaiah 53:1 ljv
1. Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2. For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

You have to be ready for time travel here.
Verse 2 He shall - Future
Verse 3. He is in the futurr
Verse 4 He has before the time of prophecy
Verse 5 He took care of past and present

Health was promised in Old Testament (none of these diseases)
Healing is a New Testament Reality
Eternal life occurs when Jesus is on the Cross.
1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jews and gentiles are covered. Now we may not see it all clearly. At the Resurrection we will see it all.

Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to offer salvation.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Isaiah 53:1 ljv
1. Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2. For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

You have to be ready for time travel here.
Verse 2 He shall - Future
Verse 3. He is in the futurr
Verse 4 He has before the time of prophecy
Verse 5 He took care of past and present

Health was promised in Old Testament (none of these diseases)
Healing is a New Testament Reality
Eternal life occurs when Jesus is on the Cross.
1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jews and gentiles are covered. Now we may not see it all clearly. At the Resurrection we will see it all.

Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to offer salvation.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

LOL My bags are packed I am all ready to travel . 5. .4. .3. .2 . . . .1 first century.. . time period, the garden of Gethsemane where it all began

He was prophesied spoken of in many ways . Nothing is before prophecy. Let there be and it was God good.

God revealing His eternal will

The Father prophesied to work with of the Son of Man Jesus through many prophets and manners leading toward the promised one time demonstration of the Father empowering. the Son of man. Salvation)

Three different kinds of demonstration beginning in the garden when the Father struck the Son bruising his heel crushing the head of the serpent

Three throughout the bible denotes the end of the matter .Like strike three , you're out

The prophecy in Genesis 3:15 along with Isaiah 53 (two witnesses) It reveals the eternal Father not seen, striking the Son of man Jesus seen the temporal, bruising his heel, crushing the head of the serpent .

The promised three day and night demonstration .was demonstrated three ways. The garden where the bruising began, then hill and last but not least the tomb

Finishing in the garden of Gethsemane the fulfillment of that prophecy. The prophecy of two working together empowered by one our Holy Father.

It Genesis 3:15 along with Isiah 53 was written to those who looked ahead trusting prophecy, as a confirmation .

Three time Jesus begged for help from the other apostles. three time our Father put them asleep Again the prophecy spoke of two working as one not a crowd . Three or more of is a crowd the bloody demonstration

Having finished the first part then step two. . hung on tree . Fulfilling sign of Jonah to wonder after as sign to the unbelieving world it was fulfilled . Believers have prophecy sign to wonder after the unbelieving world.

Matthew 26:41-43King James Version Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

Then they moved to cross a sign, the hill of Skull .A sign to the unbelieving world. Giving the illusion it was not the work of the Father not seen but the Satan inspired crowd the temporal seen.

Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Then the third part the demonstration moving to the tomb the demonstration of faith (the unseen things of God When the Father removed the grave clothes The Father rolled back the stone it was finished

 

[eddif]

There is no such a thing as "old testament born again saints"they were forgiven of their sins if they did their offerings regularly but no one was born again till after Pentecost n Acts 2 we must rightly divide the word of truth










'

Has anything I said need a clarification?

You got a wide range of wrong information here.
The Acts 2 righteous men from the nations are from the Ezekiel dispersion. Saved from death by their grieving over the sins of Israel. They were not dispersed for their sins.

You may choose to post in the open forum with moderators rather than the safe zone.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Hopeful 2]

Let us go to the parable of the sower.
All the parable was about seeds and sowing. PERIOD
The answer (to the disciples) was about what the parable meant. Word of God Men’s hearts.

It was also about the results of the sowing...some never "got it", some held on for a while and left, and some brought forth much fruit.

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man ends with their deaths. PERIOD

Not at all, as it continued on into the request for a visitation for the rich man's brothers.

The information about what happened to them is not a parable, but the answer about what happened to them.

In parabolic form.
Jesus clarifies that when He says there is no way for the dead to speak to the living. (Luke 16:26)

The answer is new information to afterlife. Information missing in any other place.(?)
One now knows what is going on to saints in the Old Testament. They are in a separate place from the general population.

Psalm 115:17 shows differently..."The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence."

The DNA in the seed was not mentioned in the parable of the sower.

A seed can only bring forth after itself, (Gen 1:11-12)

The details of Abraham’s Bosom is not clarified in the rich man and Lazarus.

There was no need for details of the fictional place as that wasn't part of the teaching of the parable.

Esoteric information is sometimes slowly revealed. We see through a glass darkly, but at the resurrection face to face.
1 Corinthians 13:12 kjv
12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Peter writes..."But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." (2 Peter 3:18)
Not everything needs to remain in the darkness.

Basically I rejoice in what I do learn, and await the rest of the story at the end of time.

Me too.

Difference in (On and In)

Pertaining to what ?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

There was no need for details of the fictional place as that wasn't part of the teaching of the parable.

Wasn't part of what parable?

The one that began in the previous chapter in a series of five . No man can serve two good teaching masters as one lord .
Simply God protecting the integrity of his living word the riches unto salvation.

Can't serve the oral traditions of men as the wisdom of this corrupted world called Mammon, and the wisdom of God "sola scriptura" all things writen in the law and prophets . God defending his living word that works in al born agin from abaove word.

The beginning of the series Chapter 15 using sheep to represent the wisdom of God, then the riches of the woman who lost one of the whole (ten) then parable the rich father waiting for the return The parable of the waiting long sufferings Father

Then chapter 16 continuing uses in a parable a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

All having the same conclusion. No man can serve to good teaching masters ,the word of God (sola scriptura) and the oral traditions of dying mankind

Luke 16:1316 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God (sola scriptura) and mammon.(the wisdom of this world under the god of this world) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.(the law and the prophets)
.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Jews and gentiles are covered. Now we may not see it all clearly. At the Resurrection we will see it all.

The resurrection of Limbo or Purgatory.? . . sufferings wondering, sufferings wondering, with no end in sight?

Born again believer receive the end of thier new born again faith from the first hearing of the gospel. . Christ in us. Yoked with Christ, not yoked with Peter our brother in the Lord.

Peter tried to usurp that power of the Father forbidding the lord choosing to do the will of Satan the spirit of the antichrist another teaching authority other than sola scriptura.

Following a law called the law of the fathers that simply make sola scriptura the word of God without efect so that they might keep thier own heresy. . laws of dying mankind as needed to lord over the faith as a understanding of the non -venerable ones

God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly infalible interpreter set between dying mankind seen the temporal and our Holy Father not seen the eternal.

That some call dying mankind a Pope or Holy Father, Holy, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Patriarch of the West, Primate of Italy,.. . . no such thing

 

[eddif]

The resurrection of Limbo or Purgatory.? . . sufferings wondering, sufferings wondering, with no end in sight?

Born again believer receive the end of thier new born again faith from the first hearing of the gospel. . Christ in us. Yoked with Christ, not yoked with Peter our brother in the Lord.

Peter tried to usurp that power of the Father forbidding the lord choosing to do the will of Satan the spirit of the antichrist another teaching authority other than sola scriptura.

Following a law called the law of the fathers that simply make sola scriptura the word of God without efect so that they might keep thier own heresy. . laws of dying mankind as needed to lord over the faith as a understanding of the non -venerable ones

God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly infalible interpreter set between dying mankind seen the temporal and our Holy Father not seen the eternal.

That some call dying mankind a Pope or Holy Father, Holy, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Patriarch of the West, Primate of Italy,.. . . no such thing

Basically can not follow your ramble. Not into Catholic dogma ( if that is where you are coming from).

I was saying Isaiah 53 finally spoke first to the Jews then later to the gentiles.

Mississippi redneck
eddif