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Why aren't Christians defeating the pornographers?

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According to a report by Dame Rachel de Souza (the UK's Children's Commissioner), 10% of 9 year olds have seen pornography. She also says there is evidence that shows a link between young people watching porn and incidents of child on child sexual abuse. In her words: "I am categorically clear: no child should be able to access or watch pornography." A study by Bernardo's found that more than half of child sexual abuse cases in the UK are perpetrated by children (2022 - up from a third in 2013).

Over a dozen states in the US have declared porn a public health crises.

According to Fight the New Drug:
Decades of studies from respected institutions have demonstrated significant impacts of porn consumption for individuals, relationships, and society. 73% of teens have seen porn. At least 1 in 3 porn videos show sexual violence of aggression. 53% of boys and 39% of girls believe pornography is a realistic depiction of sex. Porn consumers tend to be less satisfied in relationships, less committed, and more permissive of cheating. There is virtually no way to guarantee that pornographic content is consensual. Exploitation and trafficking are common experiences in the porn industry.

Why has there not been a concerted push back by Christians (who number some 2.38 billion people according to PEW research) against the pornographic industry? NCOSE (National Centre on Sexual Exploitation) began as a Christian movement and have had some limited success.

At the sermon on the mount Jesus said:
“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."

Ellicott's commentary on this use of 'salt of the earth' states:
The words are spoken to the disciples in their ideal character, as the germ of a new Israel, called to a prophetic work, preserving the earth from moral putrescence and decay. The general reference to this antiseptic action of salt is enough to give an adequate meaning to the words...

At the very least, adults are failing to protect children from seeing this material - surely a damning indictment? We are failing because we could have made sure children were protected from seeing it BEFORE we allowed porn to be as accessible as it is. Anyone accessing porn (whether they are Christian or not) is fuelling the industry and may end up actually watching someone being raped.

Porn is damaging the whole of society - not just our children.

I will add that I am not pointing the finger at everyone but myself - on the contrary, I point at all of us.
 
Interesting ta.

Now the pornographers have a physical presence within reach of every child in the civilized world. That we as adults have let this happen is staggering.

Governments could force a ban by targeting ISPs. Of course there are ways around this but, even so, there needs to be a demonstration that adults, parents, potential parents et al actually care about what happens to these little ones.

Are we actually witnessing the total addiction of vast swathes of society to porn such that they don't care any more? We all know about population collapse. Porn clearly does have a part to play in that.
Don't know if it is true or not, I would love to be proven wrong on this but I believe I heard someone in law enforcement as it concerns the internet being interviewed once and they said that on average in this country 2/3 's of all sites being accessed on the internet are porn sites .
Somebody prove this stat to be incorrect for me , please ?
 
How do you know this Tenchi? Do you know it with 100% certainty or are you guessing in hope?

What is 100% certainty? I have a very high level of confidence about many things but maybe we're all in some Matrix-like circumstance and everything that I think I know is an illusion. I don't believe this is likely but the possibility prevents me from being 100% sure about anything.

I think there are very good reasons to believe God exists. I think there is a very good cumulative case to be made for the divine inspiration of Scripture. I think the resurrection of Jesus is also far more likely than not. I also experience God every day in the way Scripture says that I can. And so, it is not mere hope on which my anticipation of eternity with God rests.

How do you deal with all the unanswered questions, the seemingly failed prophecies, the curious OT permissiveness when it comes to polygamy, the clash between Darwinism and Genesis 1 etc?

What do you mean by "deal with them"? Do you think these things somehow show my faith to be unwarranted, or the Christian religion false? I don't see how...
 
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Hi Wheat Field
How do you deal with all the unanswered questions, the seemingly failed prophecies, the curious OT permissiveness when it comes to polygamy, the clash between Darwinism and Genesis 1 etc?

Could you provide us with 'some' of the unanswered questions? What failed prophecies? As far as OT permissiveness, you seem to think that before Jesus people weren't sinners? Why do you want to believe that because some people in the old testament had multiple wives (and this was really only for leaders) that it somehow negates the truth of God's word. Listen, let me be clear on this: ALL HAVE SINNED and fall short of the glory of God.

David had an affair with a married woman. That doesn't have any bearing on who God is. All mankind has always sinned against God. David then had the woman's husband murdered. That has nothing to do with whether or not God is who He says He is. Listen! We're all sinners.

Do you get it now? Just because people in old testament days sinned just like people in new testament days has no bearing on the truth of God or 'who' God is. David was a sinner. Abraham was a sinner. Moses was a sinner. They all, at one time or another did things that weren't in keeping with God's will for us. Pssssst! Eve was a sinner and she gave the fruit to Adam and he sinned also.

And honestly, I have no idea why you would think that some manmade idea of 'how' we got to be where we are in the year 2024, that doesn't fit with what God's word says... negates God's word. Hey! Newsflash!! Darwin was a sinner who didn't know God.

Anyway, I'm hoping that you'll fill me in on all the 'seemingly failed prophecies'.

God bless,
Ted
 
What is 100% certainty? I have a very high level of confidence about many things but maybe we're all in some Matrix-like circumstance and everything that I think I know is an illusion. I don't believe this is likely but the possibility prevents me from being 100% sure about anything.

I think there are very good reasons to believe God exists. I think there is a very good cumulative case to be made for the divine inspiration of Scripture. I think the resurrection of Jesus is also far more likely than not. I also experience God every day in the way Scripture says that I can. And so, it is not mere hope on which my anticipation of eternity with God rests.

I do agree that there are good reasons to believe - there does seem to be a ring of truth about the many testimonies that have survived as the NT.

What do you mean by "deal with them"? Do you think these things somehow show my faith to be unwarranted, or the Christian religion false? I don't see how...

I cannot speak for you Tenchi - I am merely pointing a finger at these awkward issues that can make one skeptical; I honestly don't know how one gets around them. I'm curious to know what allows someone like yourself to push beyond doubt into faith whilst I don't seem to be able to. I am inspired (compelled even) by what I read about Jesus' life to keep searching.

As a contrast, I don't feel the same way about Mohammed; it may be simplistic, but I could not in good conscience follow someone who was a polygamist. (Which is why I have brought up polygamy in the bible).
 
Hi Wheat Field
Could you provide us with 'some' of the unanswered questions? What failed prophecies?
I did use the caveat 'seemingly'.

Adultery / polygamy.
Matthew 24 prophecy (which you know about).
As far as OT permissiveness, you seem to think that before Jesus people weren't sinners? Why do you want to believe that because some people in the old testament had multiple wives (and this was really only for leaders) that it somehow negates the truth of God's word. Listen, let me be clear on this: ALL HAVE SINNED and fall short of the glory of God.

This isn't my point, no - rather why ISN'T polygamy considered a sin in the OT? On the contrary, polygamy is regulated by the OT law. Kind David is told by Nathan that God would have given him MORE (2 Samuel 12:8):

I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more.

David had an affair with a married woman. That doesn't have any bearing on who God is. All mankind has always sinned against God. David then had the woman's husband murdered. That has nothing to do with whether or not God is who He says He is. Listen! We're all sinners. Do you get it now? Just because people in old testament days sinned just like people in new testament days has no bearing on the truth of God or 'who' God is. David was a sinner. Abraham was a sinner. Moses was a sinner. They all, at one time or another did things that weren't in keeping with God's will for us. Pssssst! Eve was a sinner and she gave the fruit to Adam and he sinned also.

David's sin regarding Bathsheba and her husband is singled out as such.

And honestly, I have no idea why you would think that some manmade idea of 'how' we got to be where we are in the year 2024, that doesn't fit with what God's word says... negates God's word. Hey! Newsflash!! Darwin was a sinner who didn't know God.

Anyway, I'm hoping that you'll fill me in on all the 'seemingly failed prophecies'.

God bless,
Ted

Darwinism is accepted by many Christians - most notably in the Catholic Church (Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis said that there was no conflict and Francis today agrees).

Francis Collins, who led the Human Genome Project accepts both Christ and Darwin's theory; indeed, 40% of all scientists believe in God.

For me though, there does seem to be a conflict.
 
I'm still confused (thought I'd find a reference to your phrase online but didn't) - but I take your point that the general culture of sex saturation encourages what you describe...that our culture has, for many, normalized anything (almost but we are not quite there yet) goes.

Hi 👋 my point is that the urban gay male community shows what happened when sex is pursued for the sake of pursuing sex and such pursuits are accepted as good by a subculture.


It isn’t that urban gay men as individuals are worse it’s a mix of social factors and the nature of sodomy itself. Obviously gay happens outside the big city but the nature of the gay experience is different in urban areas. More promiscuity generally fewer family and other meaningful social bonds that can restrain such behavior in other areas.

Pipe John Paul II has an essay about the culture of death that sort of touches upon this. Basically modern culture has a death wish. The death wish is evident in all aspects of society from fashion to sexuality to marriage to the economy. Christian tradition is a culture of life which on the one hand is more needed in modern times than ever before…


But as the chasm between Christians and the rest of the world 🌍 grows so does the potential for conflict…
 
I think you are hinting at the fact that there is no objective moral law without God.

I can only say that porn violates my subjective standard - but where that standard comes from I could not say.
Yes that's correct, so why should other people be concerned about your views on something?

There are God given moral standards and principals that both you and porn users/suppliers are breaking.

Shouldn't you be concerned about where you stand I relationship with God?
Do you really think that your views on God have any validity before him?
 
Hi 👋 my point is that the urban gay male community shows what happened when sex is pursued for the sake of pursuing sex and such pursuits are accepted as good by a subculture.


It isn’t that urban gay men as individuals are worse it’s a mix of social factors and the nature of sodomy itself. Obviously gay happens outside the big city but the nature of the gay experience is different in urban areas. More promiscuity generally fewer family and other meaningful social bonds that can restrain such behavior in other areas.

Pipe John Paul II has an essay about the culture of death that sort of touches upon this. Basically modern culture has a death wish. The death wish is evident in all aspects of society from fashion to sexuality to marriage to the economy. Christian tradition is a culture of life which on the one hand is more needed in modern times than ever before…

I looked up John Paul's Evengelium Vitae and can see that there is move towards 'death' in assisted dying and embryology research, but you also mention sex, marriage and the economy?

But as the chasm between Christians and the rest of the world 🌍 grows so does the potential for conflict…

Indeed, the woke culture war on Christianity is growing for sure.
 
Yes that's correct, so why should other people be concerned about your views on something?

What I am saying is - as long as those that support and consume porn can keep their world separate from mine (and from children and from those who agree with me), then there isn't a problem. That hasn't happened.

Actually, what I said above is a bit silly...my point is that, theoretically, porn could be allowed if it could be contained a separated off from the non-porn world.

I'm failing to make my point I feel.

There are God given moral standards and principals that both you and porn users/suppliers are breaking.

Shouldn't you be concerned about where you stand I relationship with God?
Do you really think that your views on God have any validity before him?

I do not know if God exists or not...yet I tend to at least try to live as if God does exist and am very moved by the actions and words of Jesus as reported.
 
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as long as those that support and consume porn can keep their world separate from mine, then there isn't a problem
In a world that rejects God's standards you can expect porn to become more and more blatentent and more in your face.
I do not know if God exists or not
An honest response.
What caused everything g to exist?

Why is the universe reasonable, explainable with maths?

A creator who is reasonable, moral and consistent is a far more rational exp.anation than, ' it just happened! '
 
In a world that rejects God's standards you can expect porn to become more and more blatentent and more in your face.
Indeed, that it what we are seeing.
An honest response.
What caused everything g to exist?

Why is the universe reasonable, explainable with maths?

A creator who is reasonable, moral and consistent is a far more rational exp.anation than, ' it just happened! '
I have seen these kind of arguments before and, for me, they are vague and unsatisfying.

..and even if we did prove the existence of a Creator, we still wouldn't know if the Bible was such a creator's word to mankind.
 
Maybe it's worth bringing up William Wilberforce - we know he was inspired by his Christianity to deal with the slavery issue but we also know he campaigned against moral decay and helped found 'the society of manners' (called the 'Proclamation Society' with the intent to suppress the publication of obscenity) in 1887.

We need a modern day Wilberforce don't we?

Apparently some young girls are shocked to find their boyfriends attempting to seemingly strangle them in intimate moments. Such violent sexual acts are normalized in porn it would seem.
 
I have a question. Why do you try to live as if God does exist? What do you hope to gain by this?

I resonate with the stance Christ takes on morality. One can only wonder (assuming his continued existence) what he would have made of and said about the state of affairs in our world as it is now regarding porn. I'm mindful of his reaction to the money changers and merchants in the temple.
 
I resonate with the stance Christ takes on morality. One can only wonder (assuming his continued existence) what he would have made of and said about the state of affairs in our world as it is now regarding porn. I'm mindful of his reaction to the money changers and merchants in the temple.
I don't see how you've answered my question why you try to live as if God does exist even though you claim He does not. What value is there to live to please a God that you do not acknowledge?

Here's where I'll take this. We can try as best we can to live a perfect, righteous life but all of it would be for naught unless we humble ourselves, give up our pride, give up our desire to be our own gods, and believe, trust, and put our faith in God and let Him take full control of our lives. Like the lyrics from Carrie Underwood's song, "Jesus, take the wheel."
 
I don't see how you've answered my question why you try to live as if God does exist even though you claim He does not. What value is there to live to please a God that you do not acknowledge?

I have not claimed he does not exist.

Here's where I'll take this. We can try as best we can to live a perfect, righteous life but all of it would be for naught unless we humble ourselves, give up our pride, give up our desire to be our own gods, and believe, trust, and put our faith in God and let Him take full control of our lives. Like the lyrics from Carrie Underwood's song, "Jesus, take the wheel."

By saying I try to live as if God exists I am not for one moment suggesting that one can live a perfect life. Far from it in fact. We know that Judaism at the time of Jesus and to this day thinks as Paul described in Romans 10 (thought that they could attain their own righteousness).
 
Following his conversion, Wilberforce:

"...sought counsel from John Newton, by then the leading Anglican evangelical in London, and by October 1785 the 'great change' became complete. For a time Wilberforce thought about a call to ministry and retiring from public life, but Newton and Pitt urged him to stay in Parliament and serve Christ there. Pitt said, “Surely the principles as well as the practice of Christianity are simple, and lead not to meditation only but to action” (The Private Papers of William Wilberforce, 1897, p. 13).

"Wilberforce was the target of tirades and assassination threats. Admiral Nelson wrote that as long as he would speak and fight he would resist "the damnable doctrines of Wilberforce and his hypocritical allies." An irate sea-captain pummelled Wilberforce on the street."
 
I do agree that there are good reasons to believe - there does seem to be a ring of truth about the many testimonies that have survived as the NT.

Yes, there is a "ring of truth" that sounds out from the Bible. I have found that it's divine Author is not distant and disinterested but ready to act in my life in the way His word says He will. Perhaps more than any other, His work in my life is the reason I am a Christian.

I cannot speak for you Tenchi - I am merely pointing a finger at these awkward issues that can make one skeptical; I honestly don't know how one gets around them.

You wrote:

"How do you deal with all the unanswered questions, the seemingly failed prophecies, the curious OT permissiveness when it comes to polygamy, the clash between Darwinism and Genesis 1 etc?"

I find that my daily experience of God counters enormously all the potential sources of doubt that are out there.

I can't tell you everything about how a 747 works, why exactly its enormous weight and size don't keep it grounded, how all its various flight controls function, what feats of engineering have contributed to its ability to fly across the globe, but this doesn't stop me from being able to say that there really is such a thing as a 747 and that I've traveled in a number of them.

If these are burning questions you have that must be answered, I would suggest the following Christian apologetic resources:

www.crossexamined.org
www.coldcasechristianity.com
www.johnlennox.org
www.reasonablefaith.org
www.str.org

There are also some great books you might find very helpful:

"Warranted Christian Belief" by Alvin Plantinga
"On Guard" by William Lane Craig
"True For You, But Not For Me" by Paul Copan
"Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by Josh and Sean McDowell.
"Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the God of the Old Testament" by Paul Copan.
"Scaling The Secular City," by J.P. Moreland.
 

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