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Jesus said, you that have followed me will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes. Nothing about judas being predestinated to do that. Judas was predestinated to be the son of perdition, it was prophesied of hi before he ever born. He had no choice not to be born the son of perdition.
God can for see what a person will do in life, thus Judas was a given for what he did.
Same with others in the Bible.
Maybe we know people in our lives who fall into this category.
You use a lot of bible verses to make your point, some are obviously misused.
There are many who will not fall into your trap.
We can't convinced you of your wrong thinking.
So what's the sense of going forward with this?
What, the person who speaks last wins?
Is it really a childs' game with you?
 
You explained very well, but unfortunately my core question went unanswered which is " Why didn't Jesus the savior of mankind even mention the Word Grace in His doctrine of salvation to hundreds of thousands He taught?"
They went home without learning the Truth . Jesus failed to mention Grace after resurrection , and failed to mention it in future time , when He returns in fury to judge mankind ( Revelation). Why?
Jesus mentioned "faith" quite a bit. And a sign to a sincere faith as by their fruit you will recognize them. You state grace to those who believe and obey. We agree as do Peter and Paul and Jesus. As Peter mentioned our hearts were purified by faith. As Jesus stated to Paul we are sanctified by faith in Him. Jesus did not pray for the world but for those who believed in Him and accepted His words. Also to those who come to believe in Him through their message. In Revelation it was mentioned that Jesus purchased us for God by His blood. That isn't from us but from God. We are saved by grace through faith and that is not of ourselves. Those who were at one time dead in their sins were made alive in Christ.

So the bottom line is if you believe in grace for those who believe and obey we agree. Jesus would state those who listen and learn from the Father come to Him. The Spirit bears witness. We love God because He first loved us.
 
You're again not telling me WHY didn't Jesus mention GRACE even once in His ministry , since its being taught for last 500 years as the key factor in human salvation. Did Jesus forget ...
No He didn't forget. He instructed His Disciples to teach all nations. Matt 28:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations
, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He prayed for people who shall believe on Him through their word In 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

The Church is built on the Apostles Doctrine Acts 2:41-42

41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers

So if they taught Grace it's by the Authority of Jesus Christ!
 
No He didn't forget. He instructed His Disciples to teach all nations. Matt 28:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He prayed for people who shall believe on Him through their word In 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

The Church is built on the Apostles Doctrine Acts 2:41-42

41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers

So if they taught Grace it's by the Authority of Jesus Christ!
Why Didnt Jesus directly teach Saved by Grace to hundreds of thousands of people He directly taught. They went to their towns and villages without ever learning the truth...And thats very unfortunate, and not right on the part of Christ --- to hide the truth from them
 
Why Didnt Jesus directly teach Saved by Grace to hundreds of thousands of people He directly taught. They went to their towns and villages without ever learning the truth...And thats very unfortunate, and not right on the part of Christ --- to hide the truth from them
You need to listen to His Apostles, they taught what Jesus was teaching, for they understood Him moreso than you !
 
Why Didnt Jesus directly teach Saved by Grace to hundreds of thousands of people He directly taught. They went to their towns and villages without ever learning the truth...And thats very unfortunate, and not right on the part of Christ --- to hide the truth from them

Grace is God enabling us to do what we can not do on our own. Grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of grace.
See Hebrews 10:29


Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Acts 4:32-33





And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. John 1:16-17



Grace is God’s Spirit, who empowers us to obey Him, as well as teaches us to turn away from sin and evil; to live godly in this present age.



Please consider that grace teaches us these things as well. As well as, empowering us to do them.



For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, Titus 2:11



We are born again (saved) by the Spirit; the Spirit of grace.








JLB
 
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I dont know where to ask this question but this thread will do.

Do some people not need Jesus and Gods grace and mercy?.

I mean in the scripture for example you can read something like Zacherias and Elizabeth walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

I mean if they held Gods laws perfect and are blameless then why would they need a savior?. They dont need Jesus they are blameless.

I have sinned so i failed.
 
I dont know where to ask this question but this thread will do.

Do some people not need Christ?

I mean in the bible you can read something like Zacherias and Elizabeth walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

I mean if they held Gods laws perfect and are blameless then why would they need a savior?. They dont need Jesus they are blameless.

I have sinned so i failed.

Part of those commandments of that day were animal sacrifices for sin.

They were walking blameless, because they offered the appropriate sacrifice when they sinned.



Blameless doesn’t mean “never sinned”.


If Christ has cleansed you of all unrighteousness then you are blameless.





JLB
 
Part of those commandments of that day were animal sacrifices for sin.

They were walking blameless, because they offered the appropriate sacrifice when they sinned.



Blameless doesn’t mean “never sinned”.


If Christ has cleansed you of all unrighteousness then you are blameless.





JLB

Ok that makes it a bit more clear. I could never undsrstand it. I thought it meant sinless and perfect because it said walking in all commandments blameless, blameless means innocent of wrong doing so they never done wrong before God.
 
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You need to listen to His Apostles, they taught what Jesus was teaching, for they understood Him moreso than you !
Thank you for your edifying responses Bright and Brother JLB . Much appreciated ? As iron sharpens iron....
In line with that thought I would like to respectfully share my interpretation of the doctrine of salvation recorded for us the Word. While going through my response , you will notice my heavy reliance is on Christ's Words. To me its the Mount Everest of all teachings , and I pay deep attention to every word that proceeds from the mouth of the savior .
The other reason is this that we HAVE to place His words above all other writers of NT. Reason?
Jesus's owns words in John 13:16 ( notice Truly, truly )
"Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. "
Jesus being the wonderful Savior ,
has shared everything about everything! Including the all important question of WHO will be saved on the last day "
He left nothing to imagination/ speculation.
Unfortunately many Churches did NOT pay heed to Jesus's caveat in John 13:16 and words of some other writers were likely placed before Christ's. What Christ is saying in John 13 :16 , is I'M THE BOSS HERE , don't make the mistake of placing a subordinate's words before mine . It's not going to work .
Now I will laboriously endeavor to explain WHY I believe Christ taught a vastly different salvation doctrine than is being preached by many institutions, if not all.
Churches mostly teach the Solafide doctrine " Saved by Grace alone , through Faith alone, in Christ alone " relying almost exclusively on Ephesians 2:8-9 and almost completely ignoring ( or missing out ) that on the LAST DAY , the judgment day , this ( Solafide) doctrine fell flat on its face... it did NOT work. Yes friends It's Jesus Himself who revealed this . Really???
Yes it's Him who says this. BUT WHERE?!
It's in Matthew 25: 31-46, the VISION of the judgment day, where the Son of Man will descend on Earth from the heavens in glory n power and utter fury( as book of revelation tells us ) in the company of his angels to judge mankind.
On that day He will divide us and place each one if us in one of the two groups. One were Sheep and the Other were Goats .
Sheep were the ones who not only believed the Lord BUT OBEYED Him by doing/ performing selfless acts of LOVING COMPASSION ❤ , especially towards poor, destitute and the sick.
Jesus lifted this lot high and told them ( v 34) “Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world."

Jesus called them RIGHTEOUS – pls note that brethren. Their righteousness had come from their deeds---- a conscious choice they had made
However the goats came to a lot of grief when The Judge of mankind Christ Jesus rejected them , even though they recognized Jesus and addressed Him as "Lord" . This tells me( that many of these ) were Christians who had believed but had no acts ( WORKS) of Loving Kindness . Jesus rejects them with the following harsh and terrifying words of condemnation:
"Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
To me friends It's clear as daylight on a clear spring day that the METRIC Jesus used ( will use on the day of judgment) was ACTS ( works/ deeds) of Loving kindness ? . Faith by itself did not work ( much as James, the brother of Christ, warned us with a harsh rebuke in James 2:2).... and goats were condemned forever.
Was Jesus being UNFAIR in handing out such a heavy penalty to believers on the last day?
Answer is NO He was Not. But why?
The answer lies in Matthew 5:17-18, Matthew 22:37 -40 and Matthew 7:12 ( All words/ teachings / warnings of the King Himself )
Let us read them and we will know exactly WHY Christ rejected everyone ( on the last day ) who did not practice Loving compassion---even though Jesus had repeatedly taught that .
In Matthew 5 :17 -18 Jesus makes it abundantly clear that He Had not come to abolish the Law ( v 17) but to FULFILL it ( complete it )
But pay DEEP ATTENTION brethren to WHAT Christ says / warns in Matthew 5 : 18. Jesus says without mincing His words that the Whole Universe can CRASH AND BURN AND Disappear but the LAW OF GOD SIMPLY CANNOT GO.
But how is that friends. Weren't we taught differently in our respective Churches --- That "we're NOT under Law but under Grace?!" in direct contradiction to what Christ warns about the Law could never go?
This begs the question WHY can't it go? Because it was INSCRIBED on our HEARTS ? and written on our MINDS by none other than Father God Himself reveals Jeremiah 31: 33 ( also referenced by writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 10:16). Jesus was simply honoring/ reminding that TRUTH . Remember friends NOBODY in this Universe dare touch God's Law , else they will have to Perish . No other way.
So do we HAVE to Obey the entire Law! ???
Nope we don't. We can still be saved. The loving Jesus TAUGHT US HOW we could FULFILL THE ENTIRE LAW and the teachings of the Prophets.
Now we can see WHY JESUS said " I've not come to ABOLISH THE LAW BUT TO FULFILL IT"
And He did it ! HE taught us HOW TO MEET and FULFILL the requirement of the ENTIRE LAW together with the teachings of the Prophets.
And How did He say we could do it?
Let's study together what the Lord reveals as to HOW can we meet the demand, the requirements of OBEYING the entire law in Matthew 22:37 -40
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

To make sure we all get the message Jesus had said this TWICE, the other time is recorded in Matthew 7:12, the Golden rule :

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

It is crystal clear the Savior was teaching us HOW to OBEY the ENTIRE LAW------ by Loving God and all others.
But Why was Christ repeatedly teaching us to LOVE GOD AND LOVE ALL?
Answer is simple: because CHRIST IS LOVE
( 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16, John 10 :30)
LOVE TAUGHT LOVE!!!
The entire message of Bible can be shrunk into one tiny word ( but with humongous implications) ....LOVE

And this is WHY Apostle John warns us in 1John 4:8 "

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

If this yet does not convince us, Jesus repeats this yet another time ( the third time) immediately preceding the Parable of The Good Samaritan (Luke 10 : 25-37)
The teacher of Law asked Jesus the question "Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” replied Christ “How do you read it?”
The teacher of Law answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

So friends this is the THIRD time Jesus is saying LOVE GOD AND THE FELLOW HUMAN BEING , if you wish to be saved.

But the teacher of Law wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
The Jesus proceeded to narrate the Parable of the Good Samaritan , who was a Part Jew and Part Pagan, idol worshipper , and had no relationship with Jesus and yet because of HIS SELFLESS ACT OF LOVING COMPASSION this man captured the heart of the Christ who not only lifted him high in the sky like a beacon but also alluded HIS OWNSELF to the Good Samaritan ?
So Christ repeatedly taught us to turn AWAY ( repent ) from Sin and turn to Love.
Proverbs 10 :12 reveals LOVE COVERS ALL SIN.
While 1 Peter 4:8 informs us Love covers a multitude of Sins.
Now let us return to the JUDGMENT day vision provided by Christ Himself in Matthew 25 : 31-46 and it will help us understand WHY JESUS will use acts of Loving compassion as the PRIMARY METRIC on the day of judgment
It’s exactly what happened ( WILL HAPPEN) on the day of Judgment!
Remember the Sheep went out of their way to PRACTICE LOVING COMPASSION. By doing that they HAD HONORED AND OBEYED the entire Law and the teachings of the Prophets and were lifted High by the Lord and invited into His kingdom. They had DONE what Jesus repeatedly taught.
But the Goats who didn’t practice Loving kindness were rejected and condemned by the Judge Christ who again used the METRIC of ( or in this case ABSENCE of) Works of loving kindness, and the Goats were rejected. For they had read every verse cited in this reply/ text, and yet chose not to practice acts of Loving kindness . They likely relied on the Solafide Doctrine to save them. But it didn’t.
The Solafide doctrine WILL fail on the last day brothers and sisters, for it never came from Christ.

With this I would like to conclude the message the Lord gave me to share with you. It is entirely your discretion what you choose to believe and do. But I respectfully state, the judgment day will yet happen and play out precisely as Christ Himself revealed in Future vision of Goats ? and Sheep ?
God bless everyone ? ❤
 
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Thank you for your edifying responses Bright and Brother JLB . Much appreciated ? As iron sharpens iron....
In line with that thought I would like to respectfully share my interpretation of the doctrine of salvation recorded for us the Word. While going through my response , you will notice my heavy reliance is on Christ's Words. To me its the Mount Everest of all teachings , and I pay deep attention to every word that proceeds from the mouth of the savior .
The other reason is this that we HAVE to place His words above all other writers of NT. Reason?
Jesus's owns words in John 13:16 ( notice Truly, truly )
"Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. "
Jesus being the wonderful Savior ,
has shared everything about everything! Including the all important question of WHO will be saved on the last day "
He left nothing to imagination/ speculation.
Unfortunately many Churches did NOT pay heed to Jesus's caveat in John 13:16 and words of some other writers were likely placed before Christ's. What Christ is saying in John 13 :16 , is I'M THE BOSS HERE , don't make the mistake of placing a subordinate's words before mine . It's not going to work .
Now I will laboriously endeavor to explain WHY I believe Christ taught a vastly different salvation doctrine than is being preached by many institutions, if not all.
Churches mostly teach the Solafide doctrine " Saved by Grace alone , through Faith alone, in Christ alone " relying almost exclusively on Ephesians 2:8-9 and almost completely ignoring ( or missing out ) that on the LAST DAY , the judgment day , this ( Solafide) doctrine fell flat on its face... it did NOT work. Yes friends It's Jesus Himself who revealed this . Really???
Yes it's Him who says this. BUT WHERE?!
It's in Matthew 25: 31-46, the VISION of the judgment day, where the Son of Man will descend on Earth from the heavens in glory n power and utter fury( as book of revelation tells us ) in the company of his angels to judge mankind.
On that day He will divide us and place each one if us in one of the two groups. One were Sheep and the Other were Goats .
Sheep were the ones who not only believed the Lord BUT OBEYED Him by doing/ performing selfless acts of LOVING COMPASSION ❤ , especially towards poor, destitute and the sick.
Jesus lifted this lot high and told them ( v 34) “Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world."

Jesus called them RIGHTEOUS – pls note that brethren. Their righteousness had come from their deeds---- a conscious choice they had made
However the goats came to a lot of grief when The Judge of mankind Christ Jesus rejected them , even though they recognized Jesus and addressed Him as "Lord" . This tells me( that many of these ) were Christians who had believed but had no acts ( WORKS) of Loving Kindness . Jesus rejects them with the following harsh and terrifying words of condemnation:
"Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
To me friends It's clear as daylight on a clear spring day that the METRIC Jesus used ( will use on the day of judgment) was ACTS ( works/ deeds) of Loving kindness ? . Faith by itself did not work ( much as James, the brother of Christ, warned us with a harsh rebuke in James 2:2).... and goats were condemned forever.
Was Jesus being UNFAIR in handing out such a heavy penalty to believers on the last day?
Answer is NO He was Not. But why?
The answer lies in Matthew 5:17-18, Matthew 22:37 -40 and Matthew 7:12 ( All words/ teachings / warnings of the King Himself )
Let us read them and we will know exactly WHY Christ rejected everyone ( on the last day ) who did not practice Loving compassion---even though Jesus had repeatedly taught that .
In Matthew 5 :17 -18 Jesus makes it abundantly clear that He Had not come to abolish the Law ( v 17) but to FULFILL it ( complete it )
But pay DEEP ATTENTION brethren to WHAT Christ says / warns in Matthew 5 : 18. Jesus says without mincing His words that the Whole Universe can CRASH AND BURN AND Disappear but the LAW OF GOD SIMPLY CANNOT GO.
But how is that friends. Weren't we taught differently in our respective Churches --- That "we're NOT under Law but under Grace?!" in direct contradiction to what Christ warns about the Law could never go?
This begs the question WHY can't it go? Because it was INSCRIBED on our HEARTS ? and written on our MINDS by none other than Father God Himself reveals Jeremiah 31: 33 ( also referenced by writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 10:16). Jesus was simply honoring/ reminding that TRUTH . Remember friends NOBODY in this Universe dare touch God's Law , else they will have to Perish . No other way.
So do we HAVE to Obey the entire Law! ???
Nope we don't. We can still be saved. The loving Jesus TAUGHT US HOW we could FULFILL THE ENTIRE LAW and the teachings of the Prophets.
Now we can see WHY JESUS said " I've not come to ABOLISH THE LAW BUT TO FULFILL IT"
And He did it ! HE taught us HOW TO MEET and FULFILL the requirement of the ENTIRE LAW together with the teachings of the Prophets.
And How did He say we could do it?
Let's study together what the Lord reveals as to HOW can we meet the demand, the requirements of OBEYING the entire law in Matthew 22:37 -40
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

To make sure we all get the message Jesus had said this TWICE, the other time is recorded in Matthew 7:12, the Golden rule :

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

It is crystal clear the Savior was teaching us HOW to OBEY the ENTIRE LAW------ by Loving God and all others.
But Why was Christ repeatedly teaching us to LOVE GOD AND LOVE ALL?
Answer is simple: because CHRIST IS LOVE
( 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16, John 10 :30)
LOVE TAUGHT LOVE!!!
The entire message of Bible can be shrunk into one tiny word ( but with humongous implications) ....LOVE

And this is WHY Apostle John warns us in 1John 4:8 "

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

If this yet does not convince us, Jesus repeats this yet another time ( the third time) immediately preceding the Parable of The Good Samaritan (Luke 10 : 25-37)
The teacher of Law asked Jesus the question "Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” replied Christ “How do you read it?”
The teacher of Law answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

So friends this is the THIRD time Jesus is saying LOVE GOD AND THE FELLOW HUMAN BEING , if you wish to be saved.

But the teacher of Law wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
The Jesus proceeded to narrate the Parable of the Good Samaritan , who was a Part Jew and Part Pagan, idol worshipper , and had no relationship with Jesus and yet because of HIS SELFLESS ACT OF LOVING COMPASSION this man captured the heart of the Christ who not only lifted him high in the sky like a beacon but also alluded HIS OWNSELF to the Good Samaritan ?
So Christ repeatedly taught us to turn AWAY ( repent ) from Sin and turn to Love.
Proverbs 10 :12 reveals LOVE COVERS ALL SIN.
While 1 Peter 4:8 informs us Love covers a multitude of Sins.
Now let us return to the JUDGMENT day vision provided by Christ Himself in Matthew 25 : 31-46 and it will help us understand WHY JESUS will use acts of Loving compassion as the PRIMARY METRIC on the day of judgment
It’s exactly what happened ( WILL HAPPEN) on the day of Judgment!
Remember the Sheep went out of their way to PRACTICE LOVING COMPASSION. By doing that they HAD HONORED AND OBEYED the entire Law and the teachings of the Prophets and were lifted High by the Lord and invited into His kingdom. They had DONE what Jesus repeatedly taught.
But the Goats who didn’t practice Loving kindness were rejected and condemned by the Judge Christ who again used the METRIC of ( or in this case ABSENCE of) Works of loving kindness, and the Goats were rejected. For they had read every verse cited in this reply/ text, and yet chose not to practice acts of Loving kindness . They likely relied on the Solafide Doctrine to save them. But it didn’t.
The Solafide doctrine WILL fail on the last day brothers and sisters, for it never came from Christ.

With this I would like to conclude the message the Lord gave me to share with you. It is entirely your discretion what you choose to believe and do. But I respectfully state, the judgment day will yet happen and play out precisely as Christ Himself revealed in Future vision of Goats ? and Sheep ?
God bless everyone ? ❤


Amen. Love.


Without the Spirit within me, empowering me, (grace) I can not walk in love and obey His commandments.





JLB
 
With this I would like to conclude the message the Lord gave me to share with you. It is entirely your discretion what you choose to believe and do. But I respectfully state, the judgment day will yet happen and play out precisely as Christ Himself revealed in Future vision of Goats ? and Sheep ?
God bless everyone ? ❤

I hope that you will understand that I’m in no way advocating for the ”grace” (sloppy grace) that is proclaimed from many of the pulpits today.


We are saved by grace, through faith...


When we hear the gospel, (the power of God unto salvation) it is by grace, God’s power that we are enabled to repent, and be born again by the Spirit; the Spirit of grace.


My point is to bring us to a common understanding of what grace is.




JLB
 
raj

Jesus called them RIGHTEOUS – pls note that brethren. Their righteousness had come from their deeds---- a conscious choice they had made

Seems you promote salvation by works, good deeds, not good friend !
 
This tells me( that many of these ) were Christians who had believed but had no acts ( WORKS) of Loving Kindness . Jesus rejects them with the following harsh and terrifying words of condemnation:
So, not all Christians go to heaven? Can a person be saved on his death bed?

The Solafide doctrine WILL fail on the last day brothers and sisters, for it never came from Christ.
So, to summarize, you are stating that we are saved by faith + works where works is summarized as loving God with all your heart and loving you neighbor as yourself. (Aside: works is defined by the dictionary as what we do in order to achieve a purpose which, in your essay, is loving God and man in order to be saved)(I don't see where you say the faith is essential for salvation; rather, all you say is faith alone doesn't save )

Please explain the following seemingly contradictory verses:
  • Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. (you mentioned the verses but did not explain why they don't contradict your thesis of salvation by faith + works)
  • Jame 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. (so how close to loving God and loving man perfectly must one get in order to be saved? (Is 1 sin a day or less O.K.)
  • 2 Timothy 1:9 for He delivered us and saved us and called us with a holy calling [a calling that leads to a consecrated life—a life set apart—a life of purpose], not because of our works [or because of any personal merit—we could do nothing to earn this], but because of His own purpose and grace [His amazing, undeserved favor] which was granted to us in Christ Jesus before the world began [eternal ages ago],
  • Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit
  • Galatians 5:2 Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation]. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. AMP .... So, you claim we must do many things to be saved, yet the verse says that if you do just one thing (circumcision is an example) in order to be saved then Christ is of no benefit. How do that work?
  • I don't see where you say the faith is essential for salvation; rather, all you say is faith alone doesn't save. Do you need faith to be saved?
 
I hope that you will understand that I’m in no way advocating for the ”grace” (sloppy grace) that is proclaimed from many of the pulpits today.


We are saved by grace, through faith...


When we hear the gospel, (the power of God unto salvation) it is by grace, God’s power that we are enabled to repent, and be born again by the Spirit; the Spirit of grace.


My point is to bring us to a common understanding of what grace is.




JLB
You're absolutely right . Grace is what you say it is and certainly not what is mostly being taught , which is placing innocent church going Christians at great risk, since many rely on their teachers / pastors to teach them the truths of Bible. One of the things I would highly recommend to the teachers is to focus HARD on teachings of God the Son. ?
 
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One of the things I would highly recommend to the teachers is to focus HARD on teachings of God the Son. ?

It’s called the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


JLB
 
It’s called the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


JLB
Amen, amen , amen ?
 
sorry but can I jump in here? haven't read all other posts of yous yet but I feel the urge to say something...

On Wednesday, our pastor gave bible study about Noah, Genesis 6.
In short, he said: verse 7, God regrets that He made man.
verse 8: Noah 'found' grace in the eyes of the Lord.
verse 9: Noah was a just man, and perfect in His generations, and walked with God.

So first, God regrets He made man. = ALL MANKIND.
Second, God chooses one person from all those people. Not because this person deserves it (like, do I deserve to be saved?).
But because God chose so.
And this sinful, undeserving person, Noah, found favour / grace in the eyes of the Lord.
And then, verse 9, after finding this grace, Noah became a just man, walking with God.

This to me implies, that God chooses whomever He wants. We can do nothing to find favour in His eyes.

It is just - Amazing Grace...
 
Hi Lilac
You first wrote verse 9: "Noah was a just man, and perfect in His generations, and walked with God."
And then you wrote :
"And this sinful, undeserving person, Noah, found favour / grace in the eyes of the Lord."
These two sentences are quite contradictory. In fact they suggest God chose Noah ONLY because he was the following:
1) He was Just
2) Noah was Perfect
3) Noah walked with God ( Obedience)
In my view Noah had worked v hard on himself to reach where he was when God elected him . God chose him from all others for above mentioned qualities he possessed.
What I do not understand is why do we Christians shy away from accepting that there is no salvation without obedience?
(John 14:15, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 3:35)
Noah was saved/ chosen only because He was doing the Will of God
Im glad you put this post Lilac ??
 
So, not all Christians go to heaven? Can a person be saved on his death bed?


So, to summarize, you are stating that we are saved by faith + works where works is summarized as loving God with all your heart and loving you neighbor as yourself. (Aside: works is defined by the dictionary as what we do in order to achieve a purpose which, in your essay, is loving God and man in order to be saved)(I don't see where you say the faith is essential for salvation; rather, all you say is faith alone doesn't save )

Please explain the following seemingly contradictory verses:
  • Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. (you mentioned the verses but did not explain why they don't contradict your thesis of salvation by faith + works)
  • Jame 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. (so how close to loving God and loving man perfectly must one get in order to be saved? (Is 1 sin a day or less O.K.)
  • 2 Timothy 1:9 for He delivered us and saved us and called us with a holy calling [a calling that leads to a consecrated life—a life set apart—a life of purpose], not because of our works [or because of any personal merit—we could do nothing to earn this], but because of His own purpose and grace [His amazing, undeserved favor] which was granted to us in Christ Jesus before the world began [eternal ages ago],
  • Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit
  • Galatians 5:2 Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation]. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. AMP .... So, you claim we must do many things to be saved, yet the verse says that if you do just one thing (circumcision is an example) in order to be saved then Christ is of no benefit. How do that work?
  • I don't see where you say the faith is essential for salvation; rather, all you say is faith alone doesn't save. Do you need faith to be saved?
Again I repeat sir, Jesus's words Trump every other writer in NT . Your quoting other against Jesus's verdict in Matthew 25:31-46 is like placing order of a village court against the order of the Supreme Court . There's a huge difference friend. This was highlighted by Jesus Himself
( I quoted that ) John 13:16
We can't stand in bright sunlight and show a tiny lamp to the brilliant sun .
Jesus's words ALWAYS above the rest
 

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