Bible Study Becoming A New Sharp Threshing Instrument

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

Our eternal life is in Jesus, not in scripture.
John 5:39: " Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: but they are they which testify of me."

 

[smaller]

dirtfarmer here

Our eternal life is in Jesus, not in scripture.
John 5:39: " Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: but they are they which testify of me."

Really?

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: but they are they which testify of me."

It's Jesus, Himself, SPEAKING, in the scriptures. There is no difference between God and His Word. I don't know why this is so hard for people to see.

When Jesus testified to Israel, The Word was looking at them right in the face. And obviously they didn't 'get it' either. It's like, HEY, that scroll you are reading, those are my Words and HERE I AM!

 

[dirtfarmer]

Really?

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: but they are they which testify of me."

It's Jesus, Himself, SPEAKING, in the scriptures. There is no difference between God and His Word. I don't know why this is so hard for people to see.

When Jesus testified to Israel, The Word was looking at them right in the face. And obviously they didn't 'get it' either. It's like, HEY, that scroll you are reading, those are my Words and HERE I AM!

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

In your statement; "there is no difference between God and His Word"; are you saying that every time we pick up the written scriptures that we pick up God? The only time that we are told that Jesus read scripture is in Luke 4:16-21 and that was from Isaiah 61:1-2a and then he stopped

 

[smaller]

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

In your statement; "there is no difference between God and His Word"; are you saying that every time we pick up the written scriptures that we pick up God?

The Nature of Gods Word is "Eternal and Alive." These are not "dead letters" but recordings of His Living Speech. We are shown here what "the Living Word" does:

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Penetrates/Dividing/Judges. These are "living and active" activities of the Living Word. Whether we perceive it, or not. This "activity" transpires where? In the HEART.

The only time that we are told that Jesus read scripture is in Luke 4:16-21 and that was from Isaiah 61:1-2a and then he stopped

Seriously now, how many times did Jesus employ His Own Words in the N.T? Many many many times, "it is written." Too many examples to even begin to cite.

Jesus, Himself, in His Resurrected Body, TAUGHT the disciples on the road to Emmaus account, from the Old Testament.

Luke 24:
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

The Word of the Law, to this day, this moment, still has various effects, working, alive and active. For example:

Romans 7:
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

This reality can be "tested" by any believer to this day in the same way Paul encountered these matters for himself in Romans 7, IDENTICALLY to what Paul shows in Romans 7:7-13. That where the law against "coveting," the command NOT to came, then, in his own mind LUSTS were aroused within him, via every manner of concupiscence.

So, yes, the Word of God is very much ALIVE to this day in the way above, proving indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with us, Romans 7:17-21. Beyond any doubt, if we are observing, internally. Paul steps us through the paces of what the law does:

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The second working is understanding this reality, personally, as Paul did for himself in Romans 7. And Paul understood that the commandments, the LAW, is precisely meant to "empower" sin, to make the facts of sin, of lawlessness, openly KNOWN:

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

We do not put ourselves "under" the law precisely for this reason. Because sin dwelling in the flesh and evil present with us in the FLESH, RESISTS Gods Laws and is EMPOWERED to resist, to make this internal reality KNOWN to us.

This brings us to understand His Grace in Christ. That we are seated in an "unmerited" seat on our part. Gods Grace in Christ is without our merits, because we are quite factually "without merit." This doesn't change after the fact of salvation.

Recipients of Grace should not seek, by the flesh, to resurrect any personal merits from the laws. It won't happen and it can NOT happen. The body is dead precisely because of sin therein and evil present "in the conscience." Heb. 10:22. Putting these operations in the flesh back under the law is NOT going to change the conclusions.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

We can stick the SWORD of Gods Word, right there at the BUT, dividing one from the other. There is a "presently working" determination of the letter to KILL and there is, from there, also a determination unto ETERNAL LIFE.

The course of God is this:

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal:

neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

IF we read in the book of Revelation, those who LIVE by the Sword (Eph. 6), also DIE from the Sword, you'll see what it speaks of, to BELIEVERS.

Revelation 13:10
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

[dirtfarmer]

The Nature of Gods Word is "Eternal and Alive." These are not "dead letters" but recordings of His Living Speech. We are shown here what "the Living Word" does:

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Penetrates/Dividing/Judges. These are "living and active" activities of the Living Word. Whether we perceive it, or not. This "activity" transpires where? In the HEART.


Seriously now, how many times did Jesus employ His Own Words in the N.T? Many many many times, "it is written." Too many examples to even begin to cite.

Jesus, Himself, in His Resurrected Body, TAUGHT the disciples on the road to Emmaus account, from the Old Testament.

Luke 24:
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

The Word of the Law, to this day, this moment, still has various effects, working, alive and active. For example:

Romans 7:
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

This reality can be "tested" by any believer to this day in the same way Paul encountered these matters for himself in Romans 7, IDENTICALLY to what Paul shows in Romans 7:7-13. That where the law against "coveting," the command NOT to came, then, in his own mind LUSTS were aroused within him, via every manner of concupiscence.

So, yes, the Word of God is very much ALIVE to this day in the way above, proving indwelling sin in the flesh and evil present with us, Romans 7:17-21. Beyond any doubt, if we are observing, internally. Paul steps us through the paces of what the law does:

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The second working is understanding this reality, personally, as Paul did for himself in Romans 7. And Paul understood that the commandments, the LAW, is precisely meant to "empower" sin, to make the facts of sin, of lawlessness, openly KNOWN:

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

We do not put ourselves "under" the law precisely for this reason. Because sin dwelling in the flesh and evil present with us in the FLESH, RESISTS Gods Laws and is EMPOWERED to resist, to make this internal reality KNOWN to us.

This brings us to understand His Grace in Christ. That we are seated in an "unmerited" seat on our part. Gods Grace in Christ is without our merits, because we are quite factually "without merit." This doesn't change after the fact of salvation.

Recipients of Grace should not seek, by the flesh, to resurrect any personal merits from the laws. It won't happen and it can NOT happen. The body is dead precisely because of sin therein and evil present "in the conscience." Heb. 10:22. Putting these operations in the flesh back under the law is NOT going to change the conclusions.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

We can stick the SWORD of Gods Word, right there at the BUT, dividing one from the other. There is a "presently working" determination of the letter to KILL and there is, from there, also a determination unto ETERNAL LIFE.

The course of God is this:

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal:

neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

IF we read in the book of Revelation, those who LIVE by the Sword (Eph. 6), also DIE from the Sword, you'll see what it speaks of, to BELIEVERS.

Revelation 13:10
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

How many of the original manuscripts does any one have today to read from? None, if we did, it is my belief that we would be like the children and the serpent of brass that Moses made. If we still had the originals, I believe that they would be like the serpent of brass that Moses made. Even today there are those that "reverence" the different translations today.
2 Kings 18:4 " He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made: for unto these days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan."

"Scripture" that we hold in our hand today are not "the inspired Word of God", they are only copies and no where can they be claimed to be inspired but only copies.

The "Word of the Law" or the law was given, not to bring salvation, but to reveal to man the righteousness that God requires. If you cannot keep one, then all are broken and reveal that we need a savior. It is not the continual breaking but the breaking of one, only one time that shows a need of a savior.

Saul kept the law, he was a Pharisee, the son of Pharisee, but when he met Christ on the road to Damascus his name was changed from a Jewish name to a Christian name, Paul. When Paul said that he was the chief of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:15, he is saying that he is the first to preach the gospel of grace which is different from the gospel of the kingdom.

Although the body is dead because of sin; God has a remedy to death, the Spirit dwells in the mortal body and makes it alive unto God, Romans 8:11.

Sin was in the world but it has no law to give it life until Moses. From Moses until Jesus, all that died went to paradise; the place that Lazarus went to, that was divided. When Jesus led captivity captive, paradice was the captives that he led in a victory parade.

 

[smaller]

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

How many of the original manuscripts does any one have today to read from? None,

If we come to the conclusions that Gods Word, even as we have it in it's many forms is not reliable, then we have nothing but our own imaginations as a poor substitute. I don't believe that is the case. We have plenty of "reliable Word of God" to deal with. And we have practical experience and our own engagements with the Spirit AND the Word to back it up.

We do take our 'basis' from the Israelites prophets beyond any question, that God Himself spoke to them and through them in their recorded engagements with God in Christ, and that, by extension, to God Himself in the flesh. None being without "written witnesses/witnessing."

"Scripture" that we hold in our hand today are not "the inspired Word of God", they are only copies and no where can they be claimed to be inspired but only copies.

I would disagree with that conclusion. Jesus and the Apostles based their understandings on the O.T. as it was written to the people of Israel, and by extensions, to us.

 

[dirtfarmer]

If we come to the conclusions that Gods Word, even as we have it in it's many forms is not reliable, then we have nothing but our own imaginations as a poor substitute. I don't believe that is the case. We have plenty of "reliable Word of God" to deal with. And we have practical experience and our own engagements with the Spirit AND the Word to back it up.

We do take our 'basis' from the Israelites prophets beyond any question, that God Himself spoke to them and through them in their recorded engagements with God in Christ, and that, by extension, to God Himself in the flesh. None being without "written witnesses/witnessing."



I would disagree with that conclusion. Jesus and the Apostles based their understandings on the O.T. as it was written to the people of Israel, and by extensions, to us.

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

I didn't say that it was unreliable, I said that they are copies of the original "inspired word". The changes that occur in the later copies of the manuscripts that we have are very minute and does not change the context of scripture.

There is nothing to disagree with. I didn't say that God did not speak to the prophets of old. I do disagree that they are, "by extensions", written to us. Are we to sacrifice any rams or lambs, as is written in the O.T? We are to study all scripture but only those scriptures written by Paul can be used for church doctrine.

 

[smaller]

There is nothing to disagree with. I didn't say that God did not speak to the prophets of old. I do disagree that they are, "by extensions", written to us. Are we to sacrifice any rams or lambs, as is written in the O.T? We are to study all scripture but only those scriptures written by Paul can be used for church doctrine.

Well of course they are written for us. 1 Cor. 10:11. 2 Tim. 3:16.

Natural blinded Israel were not given understandings:

Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Many O.T. prophets affirm similarly/identically to the above, as did Jesus in Matt. 13:15 for example. Paul taught that unbelieving Israel were intentionally blinded and remain so. Romans 11:8. 2 Cor. 3:14.

N.T. believers are taught that the O.T. contains shadows of good things to come. Heb. 10:1, Col. 2:17-17.

Natural eyes will still read the O.T. laws the way Israel read them, in the natural external senses only. Paul did not teach O.T. laws that way, for example by taking a very obscure law of the O.T. and openly dissecting and changing the entire meaning of that law in 1 Cor. 9:9-10. These are what I might term "study openers" for bible students, to figure out how Paul derived that meaning. Paul also saw the law as an allegory in Gal. 4:21-24, and therein he defined the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, the basis of Christianity.

Paul draws out how the law is supposed to be perceived and lived.
Romans 7:14, Romans 13:8-10 as easy examples.

Don't see any blood letting there.

Things in the scriptures are not always as they appear on the surface glance, just as Jesus did not appear openly, to be speaking to Israel as God Himself, The Word, pre-incarnate, through the prophets of Israel.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Well of course they are written for us. 1 Cor. 10:11. 2 Tim. 3:16.

Natural blinded Israel were not given understandings:

Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Many O.T. prophets affirm similarly/identically to the above, as did Jesus in Matt. 13:15 for example. Paul taught that unbelieving Israel were intentionally blinded and remain so. Romans 11:8. 2 Cor. 3:14.

N.T. believers are taught that the O.T. contains shadows of good things to come. Heb. 10:1, Col. 2:17-17.

Natural eyes will still read the O.T. laws the way Israel read them, in the natural external senses only. Paul did not teach O.T. laws that way, for example by taking a very obscure law of the O.T. and openly dissecting and changing the entire meaning of that law in 1 Cor. 9:9-10. These are what I might term "study openers" for bible students, to figure out how Paul derived that meaning. Paul also saw the law as an allegory in Gal. 4:21-24, and therein he defined the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, the basis of Christianity.

Paul draws out how the law is supposed to be perceived and lived.
Romans 7:14, Romans 13:8-10 as easy examples.

Don't see any blood letting there.

Things in the scriptures are not always as they appear on the surface glance, just as Jesus did not appear openly, to be speaking to Israel as God Himself, The Word, pre-incarnate, through the prophets of Israel.

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

Romans 11:6 " And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace: But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise works is no more works."
Romans 4:4-5 " Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." You cannot mix law and grace and have salvation. It has always been by faith that any one receives salvation. The people before Christ received salvation looking forward to the Cross and after Christ looking back to the Cross of Christ.

Romans 9:31-32 " But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, bus as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone."