ezrider
Member
Like a late friend of mine used to say: Patience Grasshopper!
Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness, as did Moses spend 40 days upon the mountain, and Elijah likewise spent 40 days in the wilderness.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study Becoming A New Sharp Threshing Instrument
Like a late friend of mine used to say: Patience Grasshopper!
Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness, as did Moses spend 40 days upon the mountain, and Elijah likewise spent 40 days in the wilderness.
Chopper
Member
I'll send you my email address in a "Conservation.
Chopper
Member
I have started a conversation with you and Skip. Lets meet there.
Hi Chopper,
I believe I know what ezrider is talking about. I don't know how easy it is to put into words.
When I became saved I felt like I got to know Jesus. I literally felt like I knew Him. I had never read the bible and I didn't read it for years (until I left the RCC).
Maybe if we read the bible too much it's like doing anything else that occupies our mind. If we watch too many movies, we think of that, if we listen to music we think of that. Maybe if we read the bible too much we think of that and don't "listen" to what God would want to tell us.
He speaks to us not only through His word, but He also speaks to us directly. Maybe if we don't read the bible too much our mind is left more clear for Him to reach us?
Just thoughts. It would be nice to hear from EZ. And you. Sometimes it's difficult to put spiritual ideas into words.
W
smaller
Member
God in Christ shows a believer a truth:
Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Which Chopper quite accurately sees as this:
"My mind is constantly under attack from the evil one, God's enemy and mine."
Gods Words give us the "tools" to employ for these things. The very last thing to do is to abandon the Bible, fwiw. We have explicit instructions therein, to be applied with/by faith.
2 Corinthians 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Chopper would find this command effective, if used. Chopper's just maybe not used to employing this, within, upon his own mind. But that's where this is directed the BEST when encountering the above.
Matt. 23:
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
I will add, THEY WON'T!
Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Which Chopper quite accurately sees as this:
"My mind is constantly under attack from the evil one, God's enemy and mine."
Gods Words give us the "tools" to employ for these things. The very last thing to do is to abandon the Bible, fwiw. We have explicit instructions therein, to be applied with/by faith.
2 Corinthians 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Chopper would find this command effective, if used. Chopper's just maybe not used to employing this, within, upon his own mind. But that's where this is directed the BEST when encountering the above.
Matt. 23:
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
I will add, THEY WON'T!
ezrider
Member
I am not at war, I am at peace. If I have entered into my rest, then how can I be at war? If I am at peace, how can I be at war? I can not be at war with my enemy if Christ tells me to love my enemy, and to make peace with my adversary. Yes, we can come to peace with our own internal adversary if we just apply the principals that Jesus taught. We have been commanded to beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks, and neither shall the learn war anymore.
Isaiah 2:2-4
And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the Lord 's house shall be established in the top of the mountains,
and shall be exalted above the hills;
and all nations shall flow unto it.
And many people shall go and say,
Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among the nations,
and shall rebuke many people:
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruning hooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.
Psalm 133
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
for brethren to dwell together in unity!
It is like the precious ointment upon the head,
that ran down upon the beard,
even Aaron's beard:that went down to the skirts of his garments;
As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion:
for there the Lord commanded the blessing,
even life for evermore. (See Matthew 5:1-12)
Matthew 5:43-48
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
John 14:25-29
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
If someone is still at war, if their heart is troubled and they are not at peace, then perhaps they stand on the wrong side of the cross.
.
smaller
Member
Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
If you followed the dialog and the scriptures deployed in this thread, you might see it. Might not.
ezrider
Member
And yet when one is at war, how does that war come to and end? It does so either one of two ways. War ends when the two adversaries reach a peace treaty; or, War ends when one of the adversaries is dead. Death is the end of the war, and "What is dead may never die" (for the GoT fans). When you find your own death, then welcome to the resurrection!
smaller
Member
Here is war:
2 Corinthians 12:7
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Here is war:
Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Here is war:
Galatians 5:
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
When anyone only sees them and God in Christ they can't see war or what/whom Christ is against and will remain against.
Here is war:
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 Corinthians 12:7
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Here is war:
Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Here is war:
Galatians 5:
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
When anyone only sees them and God in Christ they can't see war or what/whom Christ is against and will remain against.
Here is war:
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
ezrider
Member
Your Bible reading might be like the manna: That was your own perception based upon my question, that wasn't even addressed to you. It was just a question I posed. But I would agree with your assessment. Gathering too much for one self daily will make it become rancid and stink.
You said you have been a teacher and a student of the Bible for 40 years now. You read from both the old testament and the new testament daily. After 40 years, how many times have you eaten the Book? But its not just the Bible reading, you fill yourself with devotionals and the commentaries of men, but to what end? Till the worms have eaten away at all of your faith?
What you have gathered unto yourself has turned rancid, and once one has realized the pot has turned rancid and is full of worms, does one continue to eat from the same pot? Or does one take the pot out and empty it first, then clean it before they go to gather more bread? Jesus is the bread of life, he is our manna from heaven, but you my friend will have to learn to wait upon the Lord, and then gather daily what he sets before you.
2 Peter 2:18-22
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
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ezrider
Member
There is no war there. It is actually an example of Paul making peace with his adversary. Paul recognized the value of the thorn, even though it was an irritant, in keeping himself humble, or as he says, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Nope, no war there.
dirtfarmer
Member
hello smaller, dirtfarmer here
Believers cannot be possessed by demons or evil spirits.
smaller
Member
I don't ever recall having a single specific discussion about "possession" here for the nearly dozen years I've posted here and generally avoid the topic because the space is filled with delusional believers and delusions of believers.
Anyone who is tempted internally and recognizes temptation IS of the tempter should be well able to do their own math on this matter. They should not find that to be 'possession' because it's NOT.
Part of the problem imho is that believers are so brainwashed by movies they instantly equate scriptural depictions of man and devil's very obvious overlap in the flesh as "possession." The vast majority of Jesus' encounters with devils in mankind were definitely not Hollywood style possession. It was every day encounters in everyday folk and in religious leaders, most of which didn't have a clue about how Jesus saw these matters of man/devils, which is far simpler. Internal theft, spiritual blindness, etc. Not possession. It's a captive/captor relationship that has many different "markings" as to what extent that might be. Mark 4:15 is a great example as is Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 etc.
The fact that believers sin and sin is directly connected to the devil is entirely open and obvious in 1 John 3:8. Paul's statement of fact in 2 Cor. 12:7 is more than ample similar scriptural evidence that "a messenger of Satan" did dwell in the flesh of an Apostle and temptation was also "in his flesh." Gal. 4:13-14. This is not a "hard dot" to connect, that messenger of Satan to "temptation." But sadly, readers just can't believe their eyes when they read it.
In regards to this thread, Jesus ALWAYS sought to "divide" devils from mankind OR, in the cases of religious people, He actually HARDENED those wicked spirits in those men and purposefully did NOT cast them out. John 8:44.
Romans 9 shows us that it is entirely Gods Call on how these matters are seen or not seen.
Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Paul tells us also that the "majority" will NOT see.
Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
If we have such an obvious matter in the scriptures, particularly of the N.T. scriptures, and "believers" still don't get it I really don't know what to say. The written evidence is beyond overwhelming, on nearly every page of the N.T. Gospels and so many warnings by the Apostles to us to NOT be slaves in the flesh to SIN and potentially demonic captives in the flesh it's well beyond missing.
The Sword of Gods Word is sharp. It is meant to divide PEOPLE from DEVILS. And this in most cases does not mean "cast out." That comes at the end, either of the flesh life of a believer or at the end of this wicked age.
1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
That wickedness is internal, evil present and sin dwelling in the flesh of man, no differently than it was in Paul, post salvation, in Romans 7:17:21.
Believers may not see it. But that's exactly where the battle ground is, in our own flesh.
2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Denial is not how that cleansing transpires. It is a TRIAL of FIRE. Rev. 3:18. And this has nothing to do with physical fire, but Spiritual Fire.
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smaller
Member
I'm going to pass on any debate about warring not being warring and take the scriptures Paul wrote as fact:
Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Paul makes an identical set of conclusions in Eph. 6:11-12 and in many other citings. Yes, we do wage battles with spiritual adversaries unseen. This fact is known by anyone who acknowledges "internal tempations" being of the tempter. If they don't the tempter has blinded them into thinking they are their own tempter, which is a rather common ploy of the devil that most believers fall for so easily.
We are to take "every thought" captive. 2 Cor. 10:5. The fact that there is such a need again points to the battles. There are wars and in wars there are 'captives.' That war is in MIND.
Romans 7:
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
IF we want to see 'instant lying hypocrite' we just have to claim we are not sinners and that our sin is NOT of the devil. That is called a "loser" in Spiritual battle who has been blinded by our spiritual adversaries.
ezrider
Member
Oh man of sin, there is still one thought you have not taken captive.
smaller
Member
It would be very nice if all believers were capable of perceiving the thoughts that are taken captive are not of God or his children. The Divine Math shakes out from there. Some hear and believe. And some automatically resist. The resistor can do no other thing.
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
That enmity is "internal." And it is termed in the scriptures as Satan, the devil, the dragon, the behemoth, the leviathan, demons, children of the devil, children of the flesh, the spirit of disobedience. NONE of these things are man, but a working of those entities in the flesh/mind heart of MAN, all. Paul termed this the "evil present" with him. Romans 7:21. He also showed it as "a messenger of Satan in his flesh." 2 Cor. 12:7.
We either see it and reign over it, or we are deceived and blinded by it, God not granting submission sight to the construct He Himself made.
Particularly so when we say we "don't have it" to reign over. This LIGHT God sheds from His Words. And they, our adversaries, HATE His Light because it "exposes" them. And they "resist."
If any believer sees this they'll also know when and why they are wasting their time trying to "save" this party, because it's not going to happen:
Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
When we of Jesus, by Him, through Him, witness we witness only to one, and put down the other.
That's also how we live our present lives, in conflict to and with the other. Just as He Lived and Lives.
When anyone says stay away from Gods Word, they are under the influences of that party, and it is NOT THEM who speaks, but the other.
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ezrider
Member
How can someone stay away from God's Word when His Word dwells within them.
Gods word. Oh, you mean the Bible, that word of God, the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. As you reach for another piece of fruit...... I think I understand that other party you see.
But what thought should the son of perdition take captive?
dirtfarmer
Member
hello Smaller, dirtfarmer here
Hamartia is the greek word for sin and the meaning is "missing the mark". Is Satan responsible for all sins of commission and also omission?
James 1:14 " But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."
Colossians 2:11 " In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ."
1 John 4:4 " Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world." Does this sound as if Satan still has an abode in us?
1John 5:4-5 "For whosoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God."
Chopper
Member
Thank you for this post my friend. I love the BLUE letters, they do speak to my heart. Your last statement about about staying away from the Word of God is a good warning because I believe that avoiding God's Word is indeed foolish and deadly. One of my daily devotions is from Bob Hoekstra. A segment this morning is this that speaks of the value of the Word....
"You have dealt well with Your servant, O LORD, according to Your word . . . Let my cry come before You, O LORD; Give me understanding according to Your word. (Psa_119:65, Psa_119:169)
Those who live according to God's word will characteristically have this testimony. "You have dealt well with Your servant, O LORD, according to Your word." This is true, because the word of God is our comprehensive source of the Lord's direction and of His provision. When God's mercy unto salvation is needed for new life, one must turn to God's word. "Let Your mercies come also to me, O LORD — Your salvation according to Your word" (Psa_119:41). When reviving is needed for those who have new life, one must again turn to God's word. "I am afflicted very much; Revive me, O LORD, according to Your word . . . My soul clings to the dust; Revive me according to Your word" (Psa_119:107, Psa_119:25). Whatever the need, the Lord invites us to face it according to His word."
The bold words and underlined words are from me for importance. The Word of God and words from holy men like smaller are like a lifeline for my thirsty spirit to be satisfied with rivers of water that satisfy.
Note: Scripture and words from Hoekstra are used by permission from e-Sword.