Choosing to sin

[Heidi]

I will explain this once and for all. People no more choose to sin than they choose to be God. We were all born with a sinful nature (except Christ)and are thus in bondage to sin except for Christ's saving Grace through his Spirit.Paul explains this in Romans 7:13-25 beautifully. But many Christians don't believe him. In fact, I've even heard some Christians say that paul wrote that passage in his pre-Christian days because they'd rather believe that they can become sinless once they're saved, but prefer to sin so they choose it. :o

Paul says No. He says in Romans 7:18, "For I have the desire to do what is good but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good that I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing."

Then Paul explains why he keeps on doing the evil that he does not want to to in verse 25, "So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature (which one poster here denied we have) a slave to the law of sin."

That explains our struggle against our sinful nature beautifully. It is not a lie, nor do we sin because we choose or want to sin, but because we are slaves to our sinful nature which only Jesus can take away. But once we receive the Holy Spirit, who John explains in 1 John 4:4, is greater than the one in the world, then we can be assured that as Phillippians 1:6 tells is, "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it onto completion." Notice that does not say; "you will carry it onto completion by your choices."

That passage also does not contradict any other scripture. And those who claim it does, have an incorrect interpretation. So instead of looking for scripture to disagree with other scripture, look for scripture to agree with other scripture and your interpretation will be correct.

The interpretation that God is leading us out of sin and we are being made holy by the power of the Holy Spirit doesn't contradict any scripture because it's the truth. None of us has more power than God or Satan. And only God , not the human will has power over Satan.

So no, we are not free to choose. We just think we are free because only God knows who his elect are and what he wants to accomplish in us which he prepared for us in advance as Ephesians 2:10 tells us. And that doesn't contradict any scripture. That reconciles all scripture together.

 

[Atonement]

Heidi, if you know you should speak the Word to that homeless man on the street over there (analogy here okay) and you did not do it, even though you know you really should but follow your human instint and choose not to speak the Word of the Lord to him. Have you sinned?

Many sin because they know to do right and don't do it.

A night of drinking at a friends house and a man of God gets behind the wheel to drive home, knowing he should'nt but does anyway because after all it's right around the corner, has he sinned?

A Christian who has a habbit of smoking and really wants to quit but still continues to smoke has that person sinned?

A Christian who has just been born again and has a problem with pornography and wants to stop lokking at it for her Spiritual edification, but continues to look at it every chance he gets. Has that person sinned?

My point Heidi is this. People choose to sin everyday, they know it's wrong, they know it's not right but they choose to continue to live in sin. I'm just trying to back up your statement because this one I agree with.

 

[Heidi]

Heidi, if you know you should speak the Word to that homeless man on the street over there (analogy here okay) and you did not do it, even though you know you really should but follow your human instint and choose not to speak the Word of the Lord to him. Have you sinned?

Many sin because they know to do right and don't do it.

A night of drinking at a friends house and a man of God gets behind the wheel to drive home, knowing he should'nt but does anyway because after all it's right around the corner, has he sinned?

A Christian who has a habbit of smoking and really wants to quit but still continues to smoke has that person sinned?

A Christian who has just been born again and has a problem with pornography and wants to stop lokking at it for her Spiritual edification, but continues to look at it every chance he gets. Has that person sinned?

My point Heidi is this. People choose to sin everyday, they know it's wrong, they know it's not right but they choose to continue to live in sin. I'm just trying to back up your statement because this one I agree with.

We need to use discernment from the Spirit to know to whom we should spread the gospel. Otherwise we canot discern when we are throwing pearls to swine. So no,it is not a sin not to speak the Word to a homeless man. It's called discernment.

A born again Christians needs to confess his lust and ask Jesus to take it away. That is the only way his lust will be healed, not by an act of the will. In fact, if he tried to not sin on his own, it will have the exact opposite effect as Paul tells us in Romans 7:7-8. A born again Christian will never feel comfortable about sinning because he possess the Holy Spirit.

So you are in erro when you say he chooses sin. He is in bondage to sin as Paul tells us. So here's another person who doesn't believe Romans 7:13-25. Unbelievable. :roll:

So then choose not to sin and be perfect. Do you love to sin more than you love God? If so, then according to 1 John you are not born of God because he says that "no one born of God continues to sin." So who is born of God in the world?According to your reasoning, no one.

So when someone does what he does not want to do, then how is that a choice? :o Or do you think that Paul is lying when he says he doesn't want to sin? :o The answer is that Paul is not lying so your whole post is false. Sorry. :

 

[Atonement]

So no,it is not a sin not to speak the Word to a homeless man.

I'll touch on more here in a bit but for now, I must say that you are wrong according to the Bible

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Yes we must have discernment, but this is not what I asked. I said you know that you should tell that man about the Word of God, but you use your HUMAN INSTINT not to, not your spiritual discernment Heidi. And you told me that you would not have sinned. I DISAGREE with you 100% ...

 

[Atonement]

Okay it's time to hit on your other mis-quotes and interpretations.

A born again Christians needs to confess his lust and ask Jesus to take it away. That is the only way his lust will be healed, not by an act of the will. In fact, if he tried to not sin on his own, it will have the exact opposite effect as Paul tells us in Romans 7:7-8. A born again Christian will never feel comfortable about sinning because he possess the Holy Spirit.

Rom: 7 & 8 right? Let's look at that passage and see if it say's anywhere that a born again Christian will never feel comfortable about sinning?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

This tells me that if it was not for the law (the commandments) Heidi, we would never know that we were living in sin. This is why God passed the law knowing that mankind would not be able to keep His Commandments and would need a Savior. That's all these verses are in reference too.. Basic Bible stuff here Heidi.

Heidi never in these passages does it mention "Christian," or feelings of discomfort. No where. I'm not in error, your interpretation is in error.
I think you are confused with the word "wrought" which means work
and concupiscence which means desire..

So you are in erro when you say he chooses sin. He is in bondage to sin as Paul tells us. So here's another person who doesn't believe Romans 7:13-25. Unbelievable

Don't tell me what I believe or don't believe Heidi. You error in your interpretations of Scriptures. Many here could agree with my statement. Anyone who knows me, knows that I believe and take God's Word in a very literal sense. I just don't agree with you interpretations, and for good reasons.

So when someone does what he does not want to do, then how is that a choice?

Huh? Are you kidding? Because he does it anyway and he made that choice, rather it be a good choice or a bad choice he made that choice.

Heidi, people are not posting under you for good reason. I think you need to educate yourself in some sort of Bible School to learn how to interpret Scripture.

 

[Heidi]

I'll touch on more here in a bit but for now, I must say that you are wrong according to the Bible

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Yes we must have discernment, but this is not what I asked. I said you know that you should tell that man about the Word of God, but you use your HUMAN INSTINT not to, not your spiritual discernment Heidi. And you told me that you would not have sinned. I DISAGREE with you 100% ...

But Jesus also tells us not to throw pearls to wsine. So it takes discernment, on to whom we are to spread the gospel. So if the Spirit leads me away from the homeless man, then I will honor the Spirit. So there is no way that you can tell me if I use human discernment or spiritual discernment unless you can jump inside me and know what the Spirit is telling me.So your blanket statement is ludicrous. :roll:

 

[Atonement]

AGAIN! You are not understanding me Heidi. I asked you a question, and I said that you choose not to because of HUMAN INSTINT can I be any more clear here??????? Is it sin?? You said yes.. Plain and simple


Now you want to aruge your position that I'm not jumping inside you or whatever yada yada yada, WHO CARES!! Learn to read a question before you respond and then try to make an argument on a question you apparently did not understand.. It's obvious


Now for the tough question Heidi. How do you what is Human Instint vs. Spiritual Discernment?? I await your answer

I know what the Bible say's so please don't come back and quote me Scriptures, I'm asking you, without the help of Gateway.com BlueletterBible.com or any Bible reference for that matter, how do you know the difference Heidi??

 

[Vic C.]

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

Someone please tell me where this passage say to pick and choose who to teach God's word?

I'm sure God is pleased that you think some homeless man is a swine before you even confront him and get to know him. :-? That homeless person sould be Jesus. ;-)

 

[Heidi]

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

Someone please tell me where this passage say to pick and choose who to teach God's word?

I'm sure God is pleased that you think some homeless man is a swine before you even confront him and get to know him. :-? That homeless person sould be Jesus. ;-)

Put it together with Matthew 7:6 and what do you get? Discernment. ;-) So once again, one must not take verses out of context but put them together will all scripture to come up with the correct interpretation.

 

[Atonement]

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

Someone please tell me where this passage say to pick and choose who to teach God's word?

I'm sure God is pleased that you think some homeless man is a swine before you even confront him and get to know him. :-? That homeless person sould be Jesus. ;-)

LOL Vic you jumped ahead of me LOL I was going to quote these and more.. That homeless man should have been Jesus

 

[Atonement]

Put it together with Matthew 7:6 and what do you get? Discernment. ;-) So once again, one must not take verses out of context but put them together will all scripture to come up with the correct interpretation.

So she is calling a homeless a dog???? Wow!!!! I thought and still think this verse is for those that refuse to hear the Word, and why waste time on them when they will refuse it anyway? A homeless man won't refuse you and if he did, do as Jesus said.. Shake off the dust and move on.

 

[Heidi]

LOL Vic you jumped ahead of me LOL I was going to quote these and more.. That homeless man should have been Jesus

So, tell me, do you barge into a convention and start preaching the gospel? :o Are you sinning if you don't? :o Hardly. :roll: By that reasoning then Paul and the apostels were sinning if they didn't go to China and preach the gospel. :roll: When and to whom we preach the gospel requires spiritual discernment. We do so, when we are led by the Spirit as paul and the apostles did. So the claim that if one doesn't preach the gospel to everyone he sees at any time is ludicrous and not even worth arguing about, as are many of the absolutely absurd arguments here. :roll:

 

[Vic C.]

So she is calling a homeless a dog???? Wow!!!! I thought and still think this verse is for those that refuse to hear the Word, and why waste time on them when they will refuse it anyway? A homeless man won't refuse you and if he did, do as Jesus said.. Shake off the dust and move on.

Little does she know that, according to the out of context verse she gave me, she should have never heard the word of God.

The dogs in that verse are the Gentiles!

 

[Atonement]

So, tell me, do you barge into a convention and start preaching the gospel? :o Are you sinning if you don't? :o Hardly. :roll: When and to whom we preach the gospel requires spiritual discernment. So the claim that if one doesn't preach the gospel to everyone he sees at any time is ludicrous and not even worth arguing about. :roll:

Who said anything about barging in a conversation?

Avoiding the question and the meaning of my original post! As usal.. It's like talking to a newborn person in the Lord who knows little about Scripture.

 

[Atonement]

Little does she know that, according to the out of context verse she gave me, she should have never heard the word of God.

The dogs in that verse are the Gentiles!

Correct because Jesus did not come to preach to the Gentiles but the House of Israel. He had another plan for the Gentiles..

 

[Heidi]

Little does she know that, according to the out of context verse she gave me, she should have never heard the word of God.

The dogs in that verse are the Gentiles!

And little do you know how I heard the word of God. I asked. So I'd appreciate it if people wouldn't tell me about my past unless they know my past. I'd also apprecitate it if you talked to me rather than talked about me. That's called gossip which is a sin.

 

[Lewis]

Romans 7:17-25

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Heidi]

Romans 7:17-25

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Amen! But I'm sorry to see that God's word doesn't set too well with most people, including many who call themselves Christians. I only hope that most people here will accept God's word instead of trample it under our feet. Otherwise, I won't stay around here too much longer. There are just too many posts here that contain personal attacks instead of belief of God's word, which unfortunately, too many people enjoy.

 

[Guest]

And little do you know how I heard the word of God. I asked. So I'd appreciate it if people wouldn't tell me about my past unless they know my past. I'd also apprecitate it if you talked to me rather than talked about me. That's called gossip which is a sin.

Heidi - if you would be willing too, why don't you share your testimony.

You can view mine at http://mysite.verizon.com/peacefulalternative

What I find interesting though Heidi, is that you say "you asked" to hear the word of God.

I thought you have been saying that the unbeliever does not have the capacity to 'ask'. So, how was it that as an unbeliever you came to "ask" to hear the Word of God.

 

[Atonement]

Heidi - if you would be willing too, why don't you share your testimony.

You can view mine at http://mysite.verizon.com/peacefulalternative

What I find interesting though Heidi, is that you say "you asked" to hear the word of God.

I thought you have been saying that the unbeliever does not have the capacity to 'ask'. So, how was it that as an unbeliever you came to "ask" to hear the Word of God.

Good Point :smt038