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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Church Divided?
- Thread starter Mikayla
- Start date
Enlightenedtruth
Member
There is only one true God, the Creator of all life; and He is "mentioned" in that Bible along with some of the "instructions" that He did give.
Today, anyone can print out a diploma and claim to be anything they want. They had a "medical doctor" work in a hospital in the UK for 9 years, then they discovered her diploma's were fake. The LDS Church (Mormon's) claim their eldest leader is a "prophet" sent by God to lead them. People can "claim" to be anything; but that does not make it true.
I have said more than once that there is truth in that Bible, but the whole truth was never "written" by men. By the standards of that Roman Church, only "priest" can give the "truth" to men. The Israelites were no different, only "teachers of law" could understand "God's word" and give the "truth" to men; that is how the pharisees took such great power in their time.
With the question of different denominations and doctrines, it is the same thing. Only the preachers (clergy) can understand God's Word, and then give that "truth" to the congregations. And there is huge money involved in all of it. They recently caught a preacher here in Michigan who stole 250k from his "small Church"; not the first, or last time such a thing will occur.
Enlightenedtruth
Member
I am sorry that I upset you so, that was not my intention. I might suggest Jeremiah 17:9-10 for your quote; because that does included the Lord searching the heart to know it.
Hey Enlightenedtruth
You haven't upset me in any way. And I will repeat my position on this, I am quoting the words that God's Spirit inspired Jeremiah to write. And believe it or not, none of that quote discounts or denies that God searches our hearts. I think there are plenty of Scripture passages to confirm that truth. Neither does it deny that God knows our hearts. But it is God's warning to us, mankind, that our hearts are wicked, and no man can know it or understand it.
So no, I am not upset in any way and let me return the apology that I am sorry if my words led you to that conclusion. It was most certainly not my intention. I am merely standing firm in my understanding that God's word is true. Man's heart is wicked. Who can know it? And that, at least the greatest reason, for the division of the fellowship of believers that we see today is due to this unfathomable wickedness of our hearts.
Just as it was in Israel in Jesus' day.
God bless you.
Ted
Enlightenedtruth
Member
That leads me to the question, why would God put up with us? Our "perfect" God who knows all, and sees all; would have seen how this world was going to turn out. Why not destroy Adam and Eve when they ate of the forbidden fruit; and start over with a "perfect" man and woman who would obey Him.
After 6,000+ years, there are men (and women) who have proven that their hearts can be true; and they will obey God when this is done. If there were not, God would destroy every single one of us in what has come. Our humanity has been Judged Worthy.
For these different denominations, I still hold that a lot of it comes down to greed and men who exalt themselves above all others (holier than thou attitude's). A lot (not all) of those men do not serve God; they serve their own self-interest.
Hi Enlightenedtruth
God created everything that we see or touch in the entire universe in which we exist in 6 days. He ended His creating work by creating man. God's purpose in creating this realm of existence and mankind in it was to have communion and companionship with a wonderful creature of His creating. Just as was His purpose in creating the angelic realm. God is love and love cannot be appreciated and expressed unless there is an object for that love. For God to just remain with only Himself as the only existing being, He can't express love. If all the living creatures on the earth were destroyed but you were left, how would you express the attitude of love? Who would you love? Dandelions growing wild in the field? No friend, for love to be expressed and returned and enjoyed there must be at least someone else to share it with. That is why God creates realms of living creatures. And God's capacity to love is far beyond what we could ever think to imagine. It's hard for us to really love 3-4-10 people in our lifetimes, but God loves by the millions, at least.
But man sinned, just as some of the angels sinned. But we must remember what God has said that His ultimate goal is in this realm. He is going to be left with a body of people of His creating that do love Him as He has asked. He is going to be left, after this is all over, with a huge city on the earth of people who love and honor and adore and trust Him. But to get to that, because of sin, He has to wait. As Peter explains to us, we are living in the days of God's patience. And He has to provide the way, now that we're all tainted with sin, a way that we can be redeemed to enjoy what God will do when we receive our salvation from His wrath. God's will is that at the end of this created existence, He is going to judge all mankind and take with Him those who have chosen to love Him. And, as the nearly last words in all the thousands of words in the Scriptures declare, after God has judged all of mankind and ushered those who have loved Him in return into the newly created heavens and earth and proclaim:
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
That's what the whole of the Scriptures tell us is why God is doing what He is doing. What God is waiting patiently for. Friend, God puts up with us because He loves us. And ultimately His will for 'why' He created this realm, will prevail and He will glean a body of people, from all the people who have ever lived upon the earth, to be His people and He will be their God. And as Jesus has told us, in that new existence, there won't be any of the sorrow, pain and strife that characterizes this one.
God bless,
Ted
I'm not sure that you've understood God's purpose in creating this realm in which we live.
God created everything that we see or touch in the entire universe in which we exist in 6 days. He ended His creating work by creating man. God's purpose in creating this realm of existence and mankind in it was to have communion and companionship with a wonderful creature of His creating. Just as was His purpose in creating the angelic realm. God is love and love cannot be appreciated and expressed unless there is an object for that love. For God to just remain with only Himself as the only existing being, He can't express love. If all the living creatures on the earth were destroyed but you were left, how would you express the attitude of love? Who would you love? Dandelions growing wild in the field? No friend, for love to be expressed and returned and enjoyed there must be at least someone else to share it with. That is why God creates realms of living creatures. And God's capacity to love is far beyond what we could ever think to imagine. It's hard for us to really love 3-4-10 people in our lifetimes, but God loves by the millions, at least.
But man sinned, just as some of the angels sinned. But we must remember what God has said that His ultimate goal is in this realm. He is going to be left with a body of people of His creating that do love Him as He has asked. He is going to be left, after this is all over, with a huge city on the earth of people who love and honor and adore and trust Him. But to get to that, because of sin, He has to wait. As Peter explains to us, we are living in the days of God's patience. And He has to provide the way, now that we're all tainted with sin, a way that we can be redeemed to enjoy what God will do when we receive our salvation from His wrath. God's will is that at the end of this created existence, He is going to judge all mankind and take with Him those who have chosen to love Him. And, as the nearly last words in all the thousands of words in the Scriptures declare, after God has judged all of mankind and ushered those who have loved Him in return into the newly created heavens and earth and proclaim:
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
That's what the whole of the Scriptures tell us is why God is doing what He is doing. What God is waiting patiently for. Friend, God puts up with us because He loves us. And ultimately His will for 'why' He created this realm, will prevail and He will glean a body of people, from all the people who have ever lived upon the earth, to be His people and He will be their God. And as Jesus has told us, in that new existence, there won't be any of the sorrow, pain and strife that characterizes this one.
God bless,
Ted
Enlightenedtruth
Member
Interesting, but again why wouldn't God create and man and woman right off the bat that would "love" Him; so that those 2 could then teach their offspring to also "love" Him, etc? Why create a man and woman of Sin; then spend all this time waiting for those who will "love" Him?
I do understand why this Heaven and earth were created; for we all did disobey God, Our Father. What's going on here has very little to do with "love"; it is more about obedience. To obey God and to fulfill the purpose for which we were created, to Serve Him. In all these different denominations and doctrines, do Christians obey God, or follow "men"; as the Angels who did follow Satan in disobedience to God.
Christian Saboteur
Member
I think Jesus Christ himself spoke about division,you know,mother against daughter,brother against sister,and all of that jazz.Jesus will return wielding a sword of division,which I think is symbolically his tongue.Through division and trials,Jesus separates the wheat from the chaff.Look at Martin Luther,he created one of the biggest schisms in Christendom still today.
Hi Enlightenedtruth
You know, I'm sure if that's what God wanted, to create beings that were forced to love Him, He could do so. But He has now created at least two realms of existence that we know of. And in both of those realms He has allowed that those He creates have a choice. Why? I'm going to say that it's because of the nature of love. I think that love is something that we do voluntarily, it is not something that can be forced.
But ultimately, if you can't find a satisfactory answer from those here on these boards, it's a question that you're going to have to wait until you can ask God or pray for an answer. He has declared through his earthly brother James, that if we lack wisdom we can ask for it of God and He will give bountifully.
God bless,
Ted
Enlightenedtruth
Member
Thank you for your kindness.
I do agree love is not something that can be forced. But why wouldn't God teach Adam and Eve to love Him, as well as their offspring? Why plant the Tree of Knowledge to tempt them into disobedience? If Satan planted the Tree, or placed the serpent to tempt them; that would mean an Angel had the ability to create life in opposition of God.
And if God could not convince Adam and Eve to love Him; again, why not start over?
I occasionally read about preachers who have gold, jewels, private jets and mansions in excess; men who serve themselves above all others. I'm sure everyone of them would claim they were being "guided by the Holy Spirit" in leading their congregations; and the people just accept that, and keep dropping their pennies into the collection plates. All of this does serve God's Purpose, men who claim to be a "prophet" (spokesman for God) or "of the Holy Spirit" will lead other men away who will refuse to see God's Truth, such men will not stand among the Heavenly Host.
The honest ones share 'echad' fellowship in Jesus and follow Jesus. These are rare, and a real light in this dark dark world .
Yes, worldwide deception, for many generations (since the 3rd century! Thus what is true is unknown, what is a lie is said to be truth.
"foothold"? Ephesians 2 "the whole world is under his sway" includes religions and churches. A remnant escapes.
What do you believe God taught Adam and Chavah(Eve) ? ... and their children and descendants ?
VERY IMPORTANT: Scripture Declares God is not able to tempt anyone into disobedience (sin) . Period.
As in , in Christ, we are a new creation ! Not just cleaned up act.
Runningman
Member
Some Christians seem to believe that if one doesn't believe X doctrine(s) then they aren't a real Christian. In that case, they might feel there isn't any point of fellowship. What could be meaningful and friendly discussion between two people from different churches seems to turn in an arms race of defending the faith with the full armor of God over things trivial in the bigger picture.
Churches will split over single issues. For example, early on I went to a Church of Christ with my gf at the time and they were serious about there being absolutely no musical instruments. However, there is also a Church of Christ that uses musical instruments. This church split in the past over this. This may sound petty, but to them this was a very serious matter. They spoke about the church who used musical instruments like they were dangerous heretics storing up wrath for themselves on the day of judgement for playing a guitar while they sing. It was incredible.
What I like about message boards is that even though there are so many different denominations present, we all come here for pretty much the same reason; to discuss. Does it get heated sometimes? Sure, but what we have in common is the Bible, but that's where the differences begin once again.
There are over 100 English Bible translations and yes they do teach different things. Very different things. I feel strongly that this is a big part of why there are so many different denominations and why people often can't agree. It's because in their Bible it says such and such thing then someone comes along with a different Bible that says something else.
Hey All,
Mikayla, good question.
The simple answer is, after making sure that they are a faith based Christian Church (Catholic Churches may be included), go where you are being taught.
Why do we go to church?
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
We go to be taught, to have fellowship (with like-minded people), communion, and prayer.
Are you being taught what the apostles taught?
Is the church friendly?
Do they regularly participate in communion?
Do they regularly come together and pray as a church?
Find a church that meets your needs within those parameters.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
I saw long ago that, for instance, all the various Bibles online and in formats to see many at once
are not contradictory themselves, when the meaning is understood.
Different people have taken wrong meanings though and used those in error for whatever reasons they have and that God permits.
Some Christians see pretend Christians carrying many false teachings with the result that those false teachings even if they are few in one person are still associated with being actors on the stage of this life instead of being associated with loving God and being called according to His Purpose.
Well, I think the divisions seem greater than they really are. In my own city, for example, there are Fellowship Baptists, North American Baptists, General Conference Baptists and various other Baptist organizations who all believe pretty much the same thing but began as German immigrants, or Swedish ones, or American ones, or just Christians of a Baptist persuasion in a certain locale who congregated together in worship of God and Christ. Their goal wasn't to exclude others, or maintain distinct denominational viewpoints, but was to come together as people of a shared cultural heritage and language, or geographic area. As well, Baptists, Missionary Alliance folk, mainline Pentecostals, Evangelical Free members, conservative Mennonites, and most non-denominational churches are all very much of the same basic doctrinal views, varying from one another in degree of emphasis of those doctrines and/or in leadership structure. And so, in my city, these denominations often work together in various evangelistic events and ministries.
So, there is a lot of interaction and agreement among denominations doctrinally that those outside the faith don't really know about. However, some divisions are greater, more significant and intractable, and warrant separation, as is the case between Protestants and Roman Catholics, for instance.
Enlightenedtruth
Member
I'm not going to be the one to tell my Father (God) that he cannot do anything He pleases, or deems necessary.
I know that the vast majority of Christians do not want anyone to question the Bible, or whatever "belief's" they hold in it. There is actually a very good reason God placed the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden, a reason for the serpent as well as a reason for Adam and Eve to be the first.
There is also a reason God has allowed man to create and modify that Bible. The rank and file of the Heavenly Host who stood up with Satan and his lieutenants held faith in their "leaders" above God's Law; they followed those "leaders" without question or doubt. And they all got in serious trouble for it.
These various denominations that have "evolved" from that Bible are similar; will you follow a "man", or obey God.
Are you saying the Bible isn't all from God or that God has other "instructions" that he has given elsewhere, or both? Do you think the Bible is merely "instructions"?
Are you saying the Bible is only a book written by men and not inspired by God as true in all that it says?
You paint with an exceedingly broad brush that falsely paints Christianity as a whole in a negative light.
Runningman
Member
There can be a dynamic equivalence style, a literal style translation, and there are different base manuscripts from which the Bibles are translated from. Many many serious differences. Certainly worth it's own thread.