Got AIDS/diabetes? Proof of the medicinal benefits of peyote

[Gary]

HIV/Aids and Peyote

Soma-Sight, I PERSONALLY know many HIV +ve people and several with Aids. I PERSONALLY know some of the world's foremost HIV/Aids researchers, lecturers and experts.

They can vouch for the facts of what I wrote about HIV/Aids and that the article you plagiarized is complete rubbish w.r.t. HIV/Aids.

We have seen all the quack cures for Aids and we have seen the deaths resultant from the quack "cures" for Aids.

CD4 counts WITHOUT Viral Load tests mean very little. Anecdotal "the person's Aids was cured" means nothing. You have yet to provide any research to back up your claim that Peyote can cure Aids.

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Antibiotic effects of peyote extracts

Modern research has tested the antibiotic effects of peyote extracts. James McCleary and his colleagues at California State University, Fullerton, showed that a peyote extract was effective in killing in-vitro cultures of eighteen penicillin-resistant strains of the bacteria staphylococcus aureus.

You still need to bring this so-called "research" from California State University, Fullerton and show where it has been published in a recognized medical journal. So far you have failed to do this.

As an excuse, you offer this:

It is quite possible that this study was "dropped" from the Fullerton archives after the 60's due to the "heat" the man was putting on researchers of the genre.

:roll: :roll:

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The effects of Peyote

All I can say is that PERSONALLY I know of a man that went from putting a shotgun to his head from severe depression one night to calling Jesus his Lord and Saviour after such "ceremony". This man now works construction in Wyoming and sends money to poor families in South America... He reads his Bible regularly and is active in Christian evangelical work. He is healthier, stronger, and a better person oafter particpating in such an "evil" ceremony......

.... and I PERSONALLY know of two people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. One was a substance abuser (both alcohol and drugs) and the other was an atheist who suffered a mild heart attack and then turned to our Lord Jesus Christ.

So by your logic, alcohol and drug abuse are the way to the Lord. Or maybe you would also recommend a mild heart attack!

What I do know is that the Lord rewards an honest seeker.... sick or not; drug abuser or not; cactus-head or not.

The two people I personally know have given up alchohol, drugs and other harmful activities since coming to the knowledge and saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. I wonder if your friend still uses Peyote......

 

[KnarfKS]

I had a friend have a bad trip on acid to that "led" him to Christ. It wasn't a positive effect of the drug, it was the fact that he realized he was so lost that he was willing to risk his sanity and health for a fix that would make his life better for even a short time. But now he knows Christ, not because of the drug, but because of his own desire to fufill the emptiness that he was trying to fill with drugs.

How can you justify tripping on peyote if it is commanded for us not to get drunk? They aren't quite the same, but the idea is the same, and psychadelics actually cause you to lose even more control.

If it doesn't filter through the word of God throw it out.

 

[Gary]

What the Bible says...

I had a friend have a bad trip on acid to that "led" him to Christ. It wasn't a positive effect of the drug, it was the fact that he realized he was so lost that he was willing to risk his sanity and health for a fix that would make his life better for even a short time. But now he knows Christ, not because of the drug, but because of his own desire to fufill the emptiness that he was trying to fill with drugs.

How can you justify tripping on peyote if it is commanded for us not to get drunk? They aren't quite the same, but the idea is the same, and psychadelics actually cause you to lose even more control.

If it doesn't filter through the word of God throw it out.

Thanks KnarfKS.

This is what the Bible says about things which are harmful to our body or addictive:

• 1 Corinthians 6:20 You were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
  
  2 Peter 2:19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravityâ€â€for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
  
  1 Corinthians 6:12 "Everything is permissible for me"â€â€but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"â€â€but I will not be mastered by anything.

What experts say...

http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/peyote.asp
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/peyote.html
http://www.intheknowzone.com/halluc/what_mescaline.htm
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/report_1998- ... ge025.html
http://www.nida.nih.gov/DrugPages/DrugsofAbuse.html


:-?

 

[Lyric's Dad]

My biological mother (was adopted at a young age and did not meet her until later in life) died of AIDS after being a prostitute and drug addict for years.

I for one would have gladly helped her to try any of these methods of healing or help if they had been studied and shown to have any positive effect at the time.

The drugs they gave her at the time she was going through this were disgusting in their effects on her body and mind. They nearly killed her on their own more then one time.

I have no doubt that God has placed healing substances on this earth for us to use. Is it peyote? I don't know but I won't say it isn't either.

I am one that fully advocates the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes. The drugs man has put on the market are more dangerous then marijuana and have not been shown to have the tremendous positive effects that it has.

I don't agree with drug abuse but if used to help people who are suffering, I say why not?

 

[Gary]

Neither peyote nor marijuana will help a HIV+ve patient whos CD4 is below 200 and whos Viral Load is climbing. It is like giving a cancer patient alcohol!

However, I have seen scores of people recover and lead "normal" lives with the correct nutritional advise, correct medical advise and correct and adherent use of the ARV combination drugs.

It is not an OR situation. ie drugs OR nutrition

It is a AND situation. ie ARV drugs (at the right time) AND correct nutrition AND natural supplements.

P.S. The only spirit that they get is the infilling of the Holy Spirit..... much better and more eternal than peyote or marijuana!!

 

[von]

I am rolling myself in laughter. I do think I got in somewhere that I don't really want to be but since I'm here and totally cluless, I guess I'll get a little educated. What is this ceremony stuff you are talking about? Is this New Age stuff or Satanic or what in the world are you talking about. I am so sorry. I guess I still live a sheltered life. Give me a crash course in what is going on here.

 

[bibleberean]

All I can say is that PERSONALLY I know of a man that went from putting a shotgun to his head from severe depression one night to calling Jesus his Lord and Saviour after such "ceremony". This man now works construction in Wyoming and sends money to poor families in South America... He reads his Bible regularly and is active in Christian evangelical work. He is healthier, stronger, and a better person oafter particpating in such an "evil" ceremony......

In fact gary I know this guy so well that I bet he would be willing to talk to you on the phone or e mail you about this... This is no joke and it really hurts to see such closed minded bigotry to the healing arts of nature.... So just let me know if you need more "proof", not that it matters, you would never participate in such a ceremony anyways!

If this man came to Christ it was in spite of his drug use not because of it.

It is the Holy Spirit not a drug experience that brings people to Christ.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I know a man who came to Christ while he was in a motel with a prositute.

Does that mean fornication is a good thing? :roll:

Don't promote peyote use to come to Christ in this forum.

It is against the TOS

Rule 15: No promoting any sinful behavior (Homosexual behavior, Lying, stealing, murder....etc.) Galatians 5:19-21

This is a Christian forum, and we go by what the bible says. The Bible clearly states sexual relations between people of the same gender are an abomination unto God.

Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27and Jude 1:7-8
If you have a problem with that you need to take it up with God.
While on this site show respect for God and our savior Jesus Christ.



I know you consider peyote "a sacrament". I believe you have alterior motives for this thread.

 

[DivineNames]

This is what the Bible says about things which are harmful to our body or addictive:

• 1 Corinthians 6:20 You were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
  
  2 Peter 2:19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravityâ€â€for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
  
  1 Corinthians 6:12 "Everything is permissible for me"â€â€but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"â€â€but I will not be mastered by anything.

What experts say...

http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/peyote.asp
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/peyote.html
http://www.intheknowzone.com/halluc/what_mescaline.htm
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/report_1998- ... ge025.html
http://www.nida.nih.gov/DrugPages/DrugsofAbuse.html


:-?

Are you suggesting that peyote or other psychedelic plants are likely to be harmful in the context of religious use?

If you are indeed making that claim, then please provide citations, where religious use has been studied, and where there was found to be evidence of harm.

 

[Gary]

http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/110/

It harms your bank balance!

 

[bibleberean]

Even though I wasn't asked...

What I am saying is that peyote use for religious purposes will not promoted in these forums and that is the way it is...

End of story...

We don't even have to convince anyone it is wrong...

Just like all a person needs to know is that homosexuality will not be promoted.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Ok gary,

I guess I can let you off this time for your unkind remarks based on the fact that your research/knowledge of peyote starts and ends with Google.com.....

But at any rate....

Here is the antibacterial studies in bona fide scientific journals you requested...

McCleary, J.A., P.S. Sypherd, and D.L. Walkinton

1960 Antibiotic Activity of a n Extract of Peyote (Lophophora williamsii) (Lemaire) Coulter). Economic Botany 14:247-49

McCleary, J.A., and D.L. Walkington

1964 Antimicrobial Activity of the Cactaeae.
Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club 91:361-69.

So there you have it....

And by the way, I DO go to a University and could get access to these articles if you want me to send them to you.....

I am not going out of my way to falsify any info....

God Bless

 

[Soma-Sight]

Are you suggesting that peyote or other psychedelic plants are likely to be harmful in the context of religious use?

If you are indeed making that claim, then please provide citations, where religious use has been studied, and where there was found to be evidence of harm.

Divine Names,

I think it is readily apparent that BB and Gary have no firsthand experience of these types of cultures and very limited Google.com "research" into the validity of the healing powers of various herbs....

And furthermore from the Word of God we have an interesting text in Romans 14.....

Romans 14 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



Romans 14
1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.


I mean come on... BB and Gary both celebrate Sunday and I am not stoning them to death ! So the Biblical lesson to be learned here is that "what is unclean is not what goes IN a man but what comes OUT of a man....... DONT JUDGE THE NA CULTURE WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER EVEN STEPPED FOOT IN A TEPEE!

The white man goes into church and TALKS about Jesus, but the Indian goes into a tepee and TALKS TO Jesus" (La Barre 1964, 98).

 

[von]

Okay, I guess no one wants to explaina and that is okay, from what I see not something I need to concern myself with. I'm just checking as I am still laughing at myself.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Neither peyote nor marijuana will help a HIV+ve patient whos CD4 is below 200 and whos Viral Load is climbing. It is like giving a cancer patient alcohol!

However, I have seen scores of people recover and lead "normal" lives with the correct nutritional advise, correct medical advise and correct and adherent use of the ARV combination drugs.

It is not an OR situation. ie drugs OR nutrition

It is a AND situation. ie ARV drugs (at the right time) AND correct nutrition AND natural supplements.

P.S. The only spirit that they get is the infilling of the Holy Spirit..... much better and more eternal than peyote or marijuana!!

Actually, you are wrong about marijuana. With many AIDS patients, they suffer from "wasting" where they have no appetite and lose great amounts of weight. This of course compounds the problems and helps the body to lose what hold it has on it's ability to fight infections. Marijuana helps to restore the appetite. While this does not cure AIDS or anything, it does help the patient be able to fight the onslaught happening inside their body. While I personally disagree with the use and abuse of drugs, I feel that a patient that might benefit from such substances should be allowed access to them in a controlled manner.

 

[Gary]

So you have the published papers....

McCleary, J.A., P.S. Sypherd, and D.L. Walkinton
1960 Antibiotic Activity of an Extract of Peyote (Lophophora williamsii) (Lemaire) Coulter).
Economic Botany 14:247-49

McCleary, J.A., and D.L. Walkington
1964 Antimicrobial Activity of the Cactaeae.
Bulletin of the Torrey Botanical Club 91:361-69.

http://www.econbot.org/index/chronological_index.html

Yeah.... I am sure those qualify as a "Medical Journal" and "Modern research"...

P.S. I am still waiting for the published medical journal articles which shows that Peyote is a cure for Aids.

:-?

 

[Gary]

Neither peyote nor marijuana will help a HIV+ve patient whos CD4 is below 200 and whos Viral Load is climbing. It is like giving a cancer patient alcohol!

However, I have seen scores of people recover and lead "normal" lives with the correct nutritional advise, correct medical advise and correct and adherent use of the ARV combination drugs.

It is not an OR situation. ie drugs OR nutrition

It is a AND situation. ie ARV drugs (at the right time) AND correct nutrition AND natural supplements.

P.S. The only spirit that they get is the infilling of the Holy Spirit..... much better and more eternal than peyote or marijuana!!

Actually, you are wrong about marijuana. With many AIDS patients, they suffer from "wasting" where they have no appetite and lose great amounts of weight. This of course compounds the problems and helps the body to lose what hold it has on it's ability to fight infections. Marijuana helps to restore the appetite. While this does not cure AIDS or anything, it does help the patient be able to fight the onslaught happening inside their body. While I personally disagree with the use and abuse of drugs, I feel that a patient that might benefit from such substances should be allowed access to them in a controlled manner.

"Controlled" marijuana??

Lyric's Dad, you are right about "wasting" syndrome and the loss of appetite in some HIV positive patients.

You are also right that nutrition plays a major role in combating the progression of HIV. I have very practical experience in the impact that correct nutrition can have in fighting HIV infection.

We have been giving wholesome vegetable and meat meals to bed-ridden HIV positive patients who were too weak to walk and whos CD4 count was so low that they could not even think of taking the ARVs. In less than 6 weeks, many have recovered enough to get out of bed and several have since started their ARV treatment. We needed no marijuana or dagga to achieve those results.

One on the biggest challenges we face with HIV positive patients is diarrhoea. I would hate to think of the consequences of trying to help a diarrhoea-prone HIV positive patient while he/she is high on "controlled" marijuana or dagga!

We do encourage changes in eating habits. Six small meals rather than 3 meals. Cut down on tea, coffee and alcohol. Cut out the painkillers and the antacids. Eliminate (with natural foods) parasites in your stomach. Less sugar, more starches. Stay warm. Moderate exercise. Treat any mouth/throat infection. Sleeping? Stress?

Look to natural foods which help with digestion. e.g. papayas, apples, oranges, lemons, aloe juice, raw cabbage juice etc

We also encourage the growing of your own vegetables with trench gardening. People who are high on marijuana or dagga are not likely to want to spend time gardening!

Lastly, we encourage the patients to join a Christian support group rather than to smoke marijuana or dagga.

... and to us, the most important. Where are you in your spiritual walk? Do you personally know our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Get filled with the Spirit rather than get high with marijuana or dagga.



P.S. I do accept that the use of marijuana or dagga extract may help promote appetite. However, the smoking of dagga carries several risks including....

Dagga is known as the 'gateway' drug, as it frequently leads to the use of stronger drugs. According to a drug counsellor, 58% of dagga users later use LSD, cocaine/crack, Ecstasy and Ice.

and

Effects: Once present in the body, THC triggers a series of cellular reactions that lead to the 'high' described by dagga users. This includes feelings of detachment and unreality accompanied by light-headedness, talkativeness and increased appetite. There may be an impairment of concentration and understanding and a short-term memory loss. Because dagga contains higher concentrations of carcinogenic tar than cigarettes, it is particularly harmful to the lungs. Dagga depletes the immune system and also reduces fertility in both men and women.

- Source -

Also

For young men, HIV risk factors were associated with fewer years of education, lower levels of AIDS-related knowledge, condom attitudes, and Dagga (marijuana) use.

- Source -

:-? :-?

 

[Gary]

Romans 14:1-2 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. (The New King James Version)

How often do you eat peyote Soma-Sight?

one believes. The strong believer, whose mature faith allows him to exercise his freedom in Christ by eating the inexpensive meat sold at the pagan meat marketsâ€â€inexpensive because a worshiper had first offered it as a sacrifice to a pagan deity.

only vegetables. The strict diet weak Jewish and Gentile believers ate to avoid eating meat that was unclean or may have been sacrificed to idols.

I don't think Paul was talking about peyote...

 

[Soma-Sight]

Just like all a person needs to know is that homosexuality will not be promoted.

Comparing homosexuality with a sacrament is......

well I dont even know what it is......

:-?

 

[Soma-Sight]

How often do you eat peyote Soma-Sight?

one believes. The strong believer, whose mature faith allows him to exercise his freedom in Christ by eating the inexpensive meat sold at the pagan meat marketsâ€â€inexpensive because a worshiper had first offered it as a sacrifice to a pagan deity.


only vegetables. The strict diet weak Jewish and Gentile believers ate to avoid eating meat that was unclean or may have been sacrificed to idols.

I don't think Paul was talking about peyote...

Exodus 12:8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast.

God tells us that we can use all the plants of the garden for good purposes...


Ever hear of mana?

The Native American Church baptizes in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit and uses the Bible as the Holy text....

The principle difference is in peyote rather than wine or welches grape juice as the sacrament.....

I dont want to fight with you anymore Gary but am curious on one thing.....

Have you ever looked into the statistical data of the before/after peyote/entheogenic journey and what people have to say about it?

In many instances (majority in some cases) people say that IT WAS THE MOST SPIRITUAL AND AMAZING MOMENT OR MOMENTS OF THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.....



Check this out..............

* 4. Has use of hallucinogens
made you more or less spiritual
or not affected (N/A) your
spirituality? 71% MORE 3% LESS 26% N/A


I sure didnt get that effect from taking wine in mass!!!!!!! :evil:


Here is ALL the data from that report....

http://www.csp.org/practices/entheogens ... urvey.html




Table 2: Results of polling questions from psychedelic drug survey. Note that * categories correspond to kundalini effects.

Also another good poll,

http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_v ... c1&ID=3874

 

[Soma-Sight]

Actually, you are wrong about marijuana. With many AIDS patients, they suffer from "wasting" where they have no appetite and lose great amounts of weight. This of course compounds the problems and helps the body to lose what hold it has on it's ability to fight infections. Marijuana helps to restore the appetite. While this does not cure AIDS or anything, it does help the patient be able to fight the onslaught happening inside their body. While I personally disagree with the use and abuse of drugs, I feel that a patient that might benefit from such substances should be allowed access to them in a controlled manner.

LD,

Your posts have been very reasonable lately and not just cut and paste from the apologetics of fundamentalism.....

Thanks for some good thought....