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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
IS MAN FREE TO CHOOSE?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
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I've done it all Jason...believe it or not.
I've been to Pentecostal churches...also Catholic. No surprises for me.
How we perceive God should be how He is represented in scripture.
Is God a loving God?
Is He merciful?
Is He just?
The bible teaches me that God is all of the above....many verses will prove this.
1 John 4:8 God IS love.
Hebrews 4:16 God is merciful.
Isaiah 30:18 The LORD is a God of justice.
Agreed.
To this day many Christians in Northern Europe are calvinist.
What does this have to do with anything?
The CC has been around since the beginning...does this make it right in all matters??
And yes, I do believe the reformed are serving a different God than the one I know.
The one I know does not predestine persons to go to hell.
Jason,,,a heresy is a heresy...there's no such thing as a MINOR heresy.
I Now Better Understand the 'Good German', by Dennis Prager
As my listeners and readers can hopefully attest, I have been on a lifelong quest to understand human nature and human behavior. I am sad to report that I have learned more in the last few years, particularly in 2020, than in any equivalent period of time.www.creators.com
I read that and felt well man is always depraved ,just needs the chance to show it
these are things i see ,we have snitches here .I know of them .I refuse to snitch on gatherings .I won't .its not me concern .especially given how ravages California is with covid and how harsh the orders are .yet the highest in cases .
We have sniteches here too.
But persons gather anyway...I also would not do this to anyone.
I'm not sure what this has to do with what is being discussed.....
I,dont fear death ,it may come today,but we'll so could have that round over me head a few times and artillery landing near me and only seconds after i left .
God is in control .you seem to ignore how depraved even ole christain America is .
Tulsa race massacre - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
there is more then just that .yet well it was more "Christian "then .
hmmm .
I agree that man is depraved.
We are all born lost and far away from God.
Agreed.
No,,,I agree that man has a depraved nature.
I just do NOT believe it is so depraved as to make it impossible for him to respond to God.
It is possible for man to respond to the call of God.....
We are not regenerated first and then saved.
We are free enough to reply to the grace of God.
jasonc
Member
l
biased much ,if there is no such thing as a minor heresy .I,guess all who disagree with you,are lost .
with you its bad to be a Calvinist but not a Torah observant gentile or jew who believes you must also be cirmcumized and. kosher too.these exist ,
my,brother knows a few .or how about th millienial reign where no uncirmcumized male or female may enter into the presence of God ,the law returns .yes it is taught in some circles .
but we'll ,brow beat only,the 5 pointers whom you assume preach the 5 points to,the lost ,they don't .I have watched my pastor witness .
jasonc
Member
and stop because i attend a reformed doesnt mean. I,am one
or that I shoukd be perfectly in unisom like zombie with any church teachers view point .
you imply that .my church is small .God forbid I might be called to actually and enabled to serve in any capacity at a church .
my pastors wife a member ,not a Calvinist .I refuse to ignore that blanket statement about them
or that I shoukd be perfectly in unisom like zombie with any church teachers view point .
you imply that .my church is small .God forbid I might be called to actually and enabled to serve in any capacity at a church .
my pastors wife a member ,not a Calvinist .I refuse to ignore that blanket statement about them
All who disagree with me are not lost.
And remember this:
He who accepts everything...
believes in nothing.
Chesterton...(my wording).
How does a person attend a catholic church if they are not catholic?
How do you attend a calvinist church if you're not a follower of Calvin? Or his theology, I should say - I think (or maybe not).
I can't attend a church because I like the pastor...
I also have to agree with their statement of faith...at least 90% of it, if not all.
You don't agree with me that Christ is God???
You don't agree with me that Christ died and rose from the dead?
You don't agree with me that Christ was both man and God?
You don't agree with me that God is in three persons?
You don't agree with me that your at saved by faith?
WOW
Your saying He does not interfere with the natural sequence of things is duelism (the division of something conceptually into two opposed or contrasted aspects); that God does not control the natural sequence of things is saying some unknown force controls the natural sequence of things. This contradicts Col. 1:16-17
There is not scripture in the bible to support this contention. It is a vain attempt by liberals to defend God using anthropocentric ideals.
Agreed ...
whereas you contend that God allows sin but does not control it.
I contend God allows sin but does control it.
whereas you contend that God controls us completely
you contend that we control God, though incompletely
I agree that God does not create sin and is not responsible for sin.
I contend in God there is no darkness means God cannot love (favor) sin (those who will not be saved)
You contend in God there is no darkness means God can love (favor) sin (those who will not be saved)
You contend what I say makes no sense
I contend what I say you cannot make sense of (As Hospes I am sure would agree)
This is a false statement. Although you are not as capable as God, you have the ability to find and save some people that would, without your intervention, physically die earlier. Thus, your stance is hypocritical as you ascribe it to be an incorrect doctrine to think God takes not action to save some people, but when you when you take not action to save some people physically ...well, that's different. How convenient.
In simply terms, God lets some people die and you let some people die. When God does it you say that not right, when you do it ... well, that's O.K.
LOL ... a just God is defined by whatever God decides to do. He defines justice. He would be just to let everyone go to hell without exception. You define God's justice in human terms ...He has to be fair and give everyone a equal chance to be saved or God is not just. Poppy-cock (excuse bad language ... giggles)
The 1232 N.A. Indian does not KNOW HOW we can be saved ... this empirical evidence shows your logic is faulty. The fact that you are a Christian with access to God's word and yet you can't tell us the content of faith for a 1232 N.A. Indian should be is further proof.
I said, "You believe God could have all people who will not believe salvifically die in infancy. "
So, what part of my statement is incorrect ???
1. That God does not know who will have faith ?????
or 2. God could save those whom he knows will not have faith in adulthood by having them die in infancy
or 3. Infants don't go to heaven?
Agreed.
You don't even understand that the Westminster Confession of Faith says God control all things yet is not the author
of sin. In plain English is says God is not the author of sin and yet you say Reform theology says God is the author of sin. This is not a matter of understanding reformed theology, it is a matter of understanding English.
Example:
I say 1 + 1 = 2
you would say, well Fred never said 1 + 1 = 2
Reformed theology says God is not the author of sin (Westminster Confession, Baptist Confession)
You say Reformed theology says God is the author of sin
This is not rational
I say God allows evil and controls evil and this is not sinful
You say God allows evil and does not control evil as that would be sinful
I say Genesis 50:20, Acts 2:23 and Acts 4:27-28 show how God control evil for good
You say IMO, there is not verse in the bible to substantiate my claim that God does not control evil
I'd say many Christians are confused. Calvinists are less confused as their doctrine is more systematic.
Ridiculous, Calvinists and non-calvinists understanding comes from the same Bible. Both get some things wrong.
Biblical 'true' from your perspective. I agree that you are not necessarily wrong because I think you are.
http://vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html ...it's the Baptist confession which came from the WCF and is almost the same. I don't agree with the baptism of babies so I favor the Baptist confession (not a big thing)
WCF: https://bpc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/D-ConfessionOfFaith.pdf
Ridiculous ...
Calvinism believes Christ died and rose again. I don't think you mean to say "I do not agree with Calvinism AT ALL."
The question is based on a false premise, possibly indicating again that you don't understand Reformed Theology. Reformed Theology believes in compatibilism, not "TRICKING" people. I've never heard to the doctrine of TRICKING PEOPLE. You don't understand Reformed Theology.
Fastfredy0
Hi FF,
I think we need to narrow our scope a little.
Also, I'd like to say that if you tire of speaking about this, you can stop at any time...
No hard feelings. Friends as before, we say here.
This I SAID, YOU SAID, and you calling me hypocritical and telling me I don't understand
has to stop.
Could we do our best to use biblical verses and scripture?
This thread is about man's free will.
Does man have a real choice or not?
It's a simple question.
Did Adam have free will?
Was it taken away from him and mankind after the fall?
What makes you believe what you believe?
I agree with Paul too, especially concerning the death of the old man and of freedom from the law of sin.
It is our will to follow the good Shepherd.
Hey Wondering...did you know you were answering a post with your own name on it?
I agree with him.
jasonc
Member
jasonc
Member
so you do agree in minor heresy .
my point made . I don't know if God or how God reaches those in America when he only had Moses to teach isreal ,not my concern .
some say he didn't ,others say he did .nothing is written .t hey are dead ,im not
wondering my sister
Thank you God that free-will is taught all throughout the Bible.
For me, scripture teaches God, Himself is all-knowing - omniscient, from the beginning until the end.
God knows every choice we will ever make and every action we will ever take.
On that basis of our right choices and actions over a lifetime until the end of our life, we are pre-destined to ever-lasting life by God Himself, AS A RESULT OF WHAT WE CHOOSE TO DO OR BE LIKE IN OUR HEARTS AND ACTIONS.
1st Timothy says, "God wants all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
1st Peter says, "Christ died for our sins, once, and for "ALL."
Scripture nowhere teaches that God picks some to be saved and not others. That is a popular TEACHING BY MAN, but is supported no place in scripture.
Besides a very few Matth. 7:14, being called the "predestined", we are also called the "chosen", the "appointed", the "few", the "elect", the "remnant", the "called", the "foreknew", all throughout God's word.
Our destination is chosen by no one but us individually by the choices we make over a lifetime, and God's "predestination of a few", because of His omniscience, knowing all of our life before we do, is why we are "pre-chosen" or "pre-destined," or maybe not if we continually made poor choices and never let the conviction of the Holy Spirit affect us to change.
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It's on purpose....
I'm trying to get Fastfredy0 over here.
You'll see his name at the bottom of the post.
I cant speak for all Christians, but I can say, in my case, I struggled and then I got some understanding, and I overcame.
JLB
Paul speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to those Christians under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness.
Romans 6:15-16
Unfortunately, God says they won't obey in big numbers.
Only a few will make it.
Matthew 7:14, "For the gate is small (Narrow, excruciatingly tight and all but crushingly impossible to pass through, and the way is narrow (The same as "small" above) that leads to life, and only a FEW ARE THOSE WHO FIND IT."
Sometimes God repeats things using different words with the same meaning to "strongly emphasise" a point he is making.
Luke 13:23-24, And someone said to Jesus. "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?
And Jesus said to them, "Strive to enter the narrow door (Which is Jesus), for MANY, I tell you, will seek to enter, and WILL NOT BE ABLE."
The word "FEW" means to the exclusion of most in the above context.
And "MANY" means to the exclusion of the FEW in the above context.
1st peter 4:18, "If it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and the sinner?"
The impossibility of getting to heaven is beyond most Christian's comprehension.
The lies of the ease of attaining salvation and eternal life are so pervasive and twisted throughout the Christian culture, that the simplicity that is believed all over the world, is causing all but the FEW to be cursed by eternal destruction.?
God gives us examples.
Noah and the flood. Out of the whole world, 8 were saved.
Out of all those millions leaving Egypt in the exodus, "2" entered the promised land. Joshua and Caleb.
At the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by God, 3 were saved.
At the destruction of Jericho, RAHAB and her family were the only ones who survived out of the whole city.
There is a reckoning coming one day, like the world has never seen.
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Agreed.
Also, I'd like to add something that for_his_glory states many times:
We are predestined,,,,,
But HOW we will be saved is predestined...
NOT who.
If we examine each passage that speaks of predestination we find that this is true.
Also, yes, I'd say that there is a lot of misunderstanding on the phrase "believe in the Lord and you will be saved".
It's not speaking of a mental belief but a heart belief. Believe means something very specific in the Koine Greek language.
This is overlooked by many that feel that just need to "believe" in Jesus and they will be saved...
Believing also includes obeying and, sooner or later, this has to be understood.
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