offering time? blessing....

[TOG]

In his book God's Smuggler, Brother Andrew tells of the time he spent at a Bible school in England. The students were divided into groups and sent all over England to preach. Each group was given 5 pounds before they left and instructions that they were never to mention money or take a collection. When they returned, they were supposed to return the 5 pounds. Brother Andrew's group followed these instructions and never asked for money and never took a collection, and God provided for them. Even though they never asked for it, people came to them and gave them money, food and other things they needed. When they returned to the school, they were able to pay back the 5 pounds and had some extra to donate. Another group finished their 5 pounds the first day and asked for money at their first meeting. They were always running out of money and didn't have anything to pay back when they returned and had to work it off.

The TOG​

 

[Andrew Mason]

I acturaly was thinking that as well Obadiah and agree with you there. There are some genuine out there who use the money wisely but still, there are many wolves. They give it away with there lifestyle on top of false teachings. Suppose thats where 'test the spirits' can come into play.

Its like when i see a pastor who is personaly worth so many millions, not the church, but them. That money does not come out of thin air when they have only ever been a pastor, started off in rags and as there church grows a new extension is put on there house. lol. Instead of a 2 bedroom house its now 10 years later a 5 story mansion. From rags to riches. Not spiritual riches but material. Greed takes control.

I understand the criticism and there are many ministers who abuse their position of power and influence.

Let's talk American dollars since even poor people here are rich compared to 3rd world poverty.

How much is too much for a pastor bring home annually? Is that number in regards to his church salary only or are you referring to his gross income?

Can a pastor bring in money from outside of his church salary?

Should a pastor of a larger church be compensated more than a pastor of a smaller church? Why or why not?

As a pastor myself with a wife and son, I want to believe for God's blessings in my life and family. On the other hand, it seems like people will only be happy if you make less than they do. This would be helpful for me to hear others' perspectives.

 

[Obadiah]

...As a pastor myself with a wife and son, I want to believe for God's blessings in my life and family. On the other hand, it seems like people will only be happy if you make less than they do. This would be helpful for me to hear others' perspectives.

I'd say let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. Somehow it seems I read that someone else said that too...

Of course that doesn't mean that someone who makes poverty wages in a poverty stricken community should be pressured by his church to support a high lifestyle for his pastor, but common sense should prevail. We should share all good things, not just the leftovers that we don't need or really don't care about.

 

[agua.]

I understand the criticism and there are many ministers who abuse their position of power and influence.

Let's talk American dollars since even poor people here are rich compared to 3rd world poverty.

How much is too much for a pastor bring home annually? Is that number in regards to his church salary only or are you referring to his gross income?

Can a pastor bring in money from outside of his church salary?

Should a pastor of a larger church be compensated more than a pastor of a smaller church? Why or why not?

As a pastor myself with a wife and son, I want to believe for God's blessings in my life and family. On the other hand, it seems like people will only be happy if you make less than they do. This would be helpful for me to hear others' perspectives.

A Pastor should have his, and his dependent family's, needs met by the Church and Paul showed it's also good to work outside of ministry if your able. I think being a Pastor is a full time job though mostly and I'm not sure you can put a dollar figure on this. In larger Churches the Pastor should be helped by more "staff" and I don't think he should get a higher wage. It's not a business.

 

[reba]

How much is too much for a pastor bring home annually? Is that number in regards to his church salary only or are you referring to his gross income?

Depends on the size of the church... A small church with 1 pastor who is expected to be available about 24/7 should be able to count on a living salary. Assistant pastors if not full time should not be paid a full salary.... ( never mind i dont like BIG churches)

Can a pastor bring in money from outside of his church salary?

When a pastor has to have a second job he is not 100% in either position.

Should a pastor of a larger church be compensated more than a pastor of a smaller church? Why or why not?

Not sure if this is an answer.... A pastor should be paid according to the income of the church...sorta like a pastor in a rich area is paid more then a guy in the poor area....If the big church pastor has assistants how much is he working?

As a pastor myself with a wife and son, I want to believe for God's blessings in my life and family. On the other hand, it seems like people will only be happy if you make less than they do. This would be helpful for me to hear others' perspectives.

My opinion on this comes from being a PK of a poor pastor When us kids were young daddy always had 2 jobs one for pay and the church... Always divided in time etc..
Churches ( not so much the local church but the headquarters ) should see to it their pastors have a retirement . Head quarters need to take better care of home missions..

A man is take care of his family ... if a church has hired you they should pay you...Many churches can not afford to pay they should look for a single guy
1Ti_5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

 

[Obadiah]

...In larger Churches the Pastor should be helped by more "staff" and I don't think he should get a higher wage. It's not a business.

Most of the larger churches are also in larger cities where the cost of living can be much much higher. for example when I left Los Angeles my house sold easily for $210,000 and where I moved to the same type of house in the same type of location was selling for about $80,000. Would you still think that the pastor living in the more expensive area shouldn't make any more than the pastor living where the cost of living is, say maybe half of the larger city?

 

[Obadiah]

...And if you think about it, its only words they speak. No matter how big a church grows its only words comming out there mouth, its not using any more energy to study and talk to 1 person about the Lord as it is to 10,000. Just purchase a megaphone. lol.
.

Have you ever been a full time pastor of any church, large or small, actually doing all the things that a congregation (and God) requires of their pastor? (A successful church, not just one started in someone's living room that failed within the first year or so.) There's a lot more to that job than you are making out here with your seemingly belittling comment that they should just buy a megaphone! You make it sound like all they do is work for 45 minutes one day a week talking to whatever people come to their church. Even if that were all a pastor did, did you ever stop to think of how much work, study, and talent goes into a sermon that is high quality enough to attract 10,000 people to his church instead of all the other churches in the area? But you don't think that's worth anything? Do you think that maybe there is more work in his ministry other than to "talk" to the congregation one day a week that causes 10,000 people to want to be part of his church? Is all that worthless also? Out of 10,000 people how many of them will have a crisis of some type and they call on the pastor at any hour of the day or night? How many times a day will that happen with a congregation of 10,000 as opposed to a church of, say, 50 people? They don't call just anyone in the congregation, they call the pastor. Is his willingness to deal with these constant crisis not worth anything? Well, there's a lot more, but you get the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Obadiah]

Actually, I really do agree that all those tactics we talk about and have seen that play on people's guilt to get them to give money are wrong, and usually come from the selfish love of money on the part of the people running those churches that do those things. But on the other hand, I also see that there is a lot of greed and love of money on the part of us pewsitters who feel that the pastor should be all things to all people all the time, day and night, but we don't want to part with much if anything at all to share with him in return for what he does. Somehow we don't expect anyone else to work hard for below poverty wages or for free, but we think the pastor should so we can keep a few dollars more of our beloved money.

 

[agua.]

Not sure if this is an answer.... A pastor should be paid according to the income of the church...sorta like a pastor in a rich area is paid more then a guy in the poor area....If the big church pastor has assistants how much is he working?

A capitalist Pastor

 

[Obadiah]

Well Obadiah, as it is written in scripture, dont worry about what you will say, the Holy Spirit will guide you and talk for you.

Im not one to brag but i have only know the Word for just over 1 year and i could talk to a audience of one million if i had too and i dont even know if i have the HS.
I study the word over 50 hours a week. Sometimes i dont even sleep and i dont expect ANY reward for it, and im just a knowbody.

Im not bragging, im just talking truth.

So you have actually preached sermons that are high enough quality to attract and hold a congregation of 1 million people week after week? Unless you have, you can't claim that you can. Scripture also tells us to study and to prepare ourselves. And what do you do when, let's say 1% of those people every day require some other ministry from you other than listening to your sermon? That's 10,000 people per day requesting your services. How do you handle that?

 

[agua.]

Most of the larger churches are also in larger cities where the cost of living can be much much higher. for example when I left Los Angeles my house sold easily for $210,000 and where I moved to the same type of house in the same type of location was selling for about $80,000. Would you still think that the pastor living in the more expensive area shouldn't make any more than the pastor living where the cost of living is, say maybe half of the larger city?

Yes market value and cost of living should be taken into account etc. Relatively the city and country Pastor should equally have their needs met. Personally I think the Church should provide the Pastors dwelling while he's leading the congregation.

 

[Kathi]

A pastor should have what he needs and what God provides for him and his family.Nothing more.

 

[Obadiah]

What is the 'quality' that attracts?. No, i have never preached and i probably never will. As i grow in faith personally i will hopefully shine to others in the way i walk, not by my talk.

How do you handle the 1% that require some other ministry for you other than listening to your sermon. Well, tell them to open there bibles and read the inspired word of God and the words of Christ for themselves rather than relying on man. Acturally, its not the 1%, its the 100%.

Well, good luck to you in building and maintaining your 1,000,000 member church on nothing more than an impromptu sermon and telling people to go read their Bible instead of depending on you when they ask for your spiritual guidance. The Holy Spirit doesn't do our work for us so we don't have to. The Holy Spirit takes over after we have done everything within our power first and there is nothing more we can do. Let us know how it works out.

Acturally, its not the 1%, its the 100%.

I said 1% per day. That's 10,000 people every day, day after day, every day of the week that you will deal with for free. I wish you luck.

You may say you will never do this, but it's what you are saying you expect of others.

 

[Kathi]

Joyce Meyers is rich and famous.I do not think that is what Jesus had in mind for those to spread the word to people.Was Jesus rich and famous?....NO WAY!!!

 

[agua.]

There is nothing that a pastor has that is not freely given to everyone else. The bible is complete and finished for all who are willing. The one thing i really like about pastors is they can make it more easy to understand, yet at the same time many take it in there own context.

I'm not sure that's right Dan.

Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[agua.]

Im not talking about salvation, but the contect and biblical prophecy and scripture that is quoted.
So, as you are implying, most pastors all preach and believe the same thing?. I really dont believe that. Why is there so many denominations. Thats why i think people should seek the direct source, and that's the word of God written from the same scripture Pastors read the NT.

No mate I'm just suggesting God appoints Pastors. Maybe one reason we have so much disunity is because people appoint themselves as Pastors. imo

 

[Obadiah]

I'm not sure that's right Dan.

Eph 4:11-12 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

I was thinking of the same verse, but Dan said he studies the Bible 50 hours every week, so I assumed he's already read that verse but just didn't agree with it.

 

[evenifigoalone]

They're still human and humans make mistakes. Someone can be wrong on some things and still be good.
Who's making the mistake and who's not? That's why we have the holy spirit.

 

[Deborah13]

Joyce Meyers is rich and famous.I do not think that is what Jesus had in mind for those to spread the word to people.Was Jesus rich and famous?....NO WAY!!!

I don't think anyone is going to be remembering famous Joyce in 2000 yrs. Famous Christ, forever.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Even among people whom I sincerely believe are saved (although only they and God know for certain), there are so many different doctrines and differences in opinion. OSAS or no? Dispensational or covenant theology? Spiritual gifts in use today or not? Speaking in tongues still applicable or not? And so many different end times beliefs.
Obviously they can't all be right. And on some of these things I don't even know what I believe anymore. So many people whom I've come to trust have conflicting views, or both sides make compelling arguments.

Why God allowed it to turn out like that I don't know.