Bible Study shepherds in the birth of Christ birth

[ezra]

doing a study on the shepherds in the birth of Christ Birth. i have dug up some interesting things.. this is not a post of me teaching but a post looking for info on them so far all my sources are in agreement with each other... i will be leading wed night Bible study this wed night and our subject will be about those smelly shepherds who got to see baby jesus first. there is more to it than just shepherds . please no arguments i am searching for material . i am on limited time this just came to me tonight . material will need to have a source if something found on net .i would like a link to the page no offense but i need to read fro my self. not interested in fables just facts...please

 

[dianegcook]

Hi Ezra
I am not giving you any source other than the Bible.
It doesn't say much about the shepherds, rather than an Angel came unto them, and gave them the good news.
In Luke 2:8
It states, they were in the same country, shepherds abiding in the field.
Interesting note:
The same country/region as David..
1Samuel 16:11, 19
Samuel was to anoint a King!
Sam.16:4
He came to Bethlehem...
He sanctified Jesse and his sons.
And you know the rest,
He asked are all these your sons?
Verse 11, David keepeth the sheep
Verse 18,
Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite...
Hope that helped some

 

[ezra]

Hi Ezra
I am not giving you any source other than the Bible.
It doesn't say much about the shepherds, rather than an Angel came unto them, and gave them the good news.
In Luke 2:8
It states, they were in the same country, shepherds abiding in the field.
Interesting note:
The same country/region as David..
1Samuel 16:11, 19
Samuel was to anoint a King!
Sam.16:4
He came to Bethlehem...
He sanctified Jesse and his sons.
And you know the rest,
He asked are all these your sons?
Verse 11, David keepeth the sheep
Verse 18,
Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite...
Hope that helped some

well there appears to be more to this than just plain old shepherds . every source i have looked at on the net has been in agreement one of my sources is John MacArthur while i am not a calvinist .i do trust his teachings on the birth of Christ . i do not agree with him on how a person is saved. i believe in free will Micah 4:8 tower of the flock is a very interesting scripture and back ground of these particular Sheppard s if what i am reading is true these was priestly Sheppard s watching over the sacrificial lambs to be used in the temple . i have more to study

 

[brother Paul]

Just a thought...

One of these fields outside of Bethlehem that Archaeologists have discovered was called "Migdol ha’Aydel", the Tower of the Flock, where specially anointed Temple Shepherd’s would reside in the fields all night long, every night allowable, all during the early fall! The lambs born and raised here were holy lambs dedicated to God.


These Shepherds would always be seen living in the fields even as the first day of Tabernacles approached. The Feast of Tabernacles is a feast of provision and thanksgiving, and one of the feasts with a profound double Messianic significance. It at once represents God’s provision, but also represents “God“ dwelling “with us” whenever He became manifest in the Tabernacle proper.

 

[ezra]

Just a thought...

One of these fields outside of Bethlehem that Archaeologists have discovered was called "Migdol ha’Aydel", the Tower of the Flock, where specially anointed Temple Shepherd’s would reside in the fields all night long, every night allowable, all during the early fall! The lambs born and raised here were holy lambs dedicated to God.


These Shepherds would always be seen living in the fields even as the first day of Tabernacles approached. The Feast of Tabernacles is a feast of provision and thanksgiving, and one of the feasts with a profound double Messianic significance. It at once represents God’s provision, but also represents “God“ dwelling “with us” whenever He became manifest in the Tabernacle proper.

you have more than a thought .. most of this lines up with what i have studied so far . what is interesting isssssssss they took these new born lambs at birth and wrapped them in swaddling clothes . every thing ties in and i dont think it was unsanitary as we might think other than straw /. thank you for your thoughts BRO PAUL

 

[dirtfarmer]

you have more than a thought .. most of this lines up with what i have studied so far . what is interesting isssssssss they took these new born lambs at birth and wrapped them in swaddling clothes . every thing ties in and i dont think it was unsanitary as we might think other than straw /. thank you for your thoughts BRO PAUL

hello ezra, dirtfarmer here

"Tower of the flock", Migdal Eder, interesting study. Only the first born lambs for the temple sacrifice were kept there. They were all wrapped in "swaddling clothes" so as to not give themselves a blemish and thus exclude them as a sacrificial first born lamb. You are correct, they were not unsanitary, also there were no cows or donkeys there either. It was only for sacrificial lambs.

 

[ezra]

this is a very interesting study also in my study which i have more reading to do.. i do not believe that Mary and Joseph was forced because of no room only . she was with child and when the child was born there would be a issue of Blood .this goes deep into lev law

According to the Torah, when a woman had an issue of blood for any reason, she was ritually unclean for that time and for seven days thereafter. She remained ceremonially unclean until she was purified by entering a mikvah (water immersion) in the witnessing presence of a rabbi. While she was ritually unclean, she had to live separately from the rest of the family so as not to defile the people in the household and by her presence rendering them ceremonially unclean. Therefore, during those times, the woman would leave and stay in a nearby area where she would not defile the home. (Leviticus 15:19-23). During childbirth and with the issue of blood loss, the same rule applied to women giving birth (Leviticus 12:2-4). If she were to give birth in the common living area, she would defile the family and make it necessary for them to be ceremonially purified by both a ritual immersion and a sacrifice; therefore, women would leave the home and give birth elsewhere. After the cessation of blood and the required time of waiting for purification, the woman and child would perform the necessary rituals of purification to be ceremonially clean and return to the household with the rest of the family. Before the rabbis co-opted it to the confines of the Temple, circumcision was performed as a natural course of birth by the parents (Genesis 17:23). Thus, with this understanding, there being "'no place for them in the kataluma" would be regarded as completely appropriate. But this is no indication that she would be summarily ostracized to reside in a stable of animals by her family who cared for her well-being.

 

[brother Paul]

The blood and the water...hmmm! A pattern-like relationship perhaps? Death of millions and the flood, Abraham the Hebrew (river crosser) and circumcision; death of the Passover lamb and the Red Sea; the immersion in a Mikvah of the High Priest who then puts on white linen garments and sprinkles the blood on the mercy seat, and so on???? 1 John 5:8

 

[JohnDB]

On an anthropology note...

Adults didn't do the sheepherding....it was a job relegated to children and youths. (Remember David as a child did it)

Usually the least/lowest members of their culture did this task. Sheep and goats are pretty compliant with any person. Young Women/maids often did this task if there wasn't any boys around to do it. (Moses's wife)

Soooo when the boys went to check on the story the Angels told them and they told everyone... everyone pretty much discounted their story as some kind of prank.

 

[dirtfarmer]

On an anthropology note...

Adults didn't do the sheepherding....it was a job relegated to children and youths. (Remember David as a child did it)

Usually the least/lowest members of their culture did this task. Sheep and goats are pretty compliant with any person. Young Women/maids often did this task if there wasn't any boys around to do it. (Moses's wife)

Soooo when the boys went to check on the story the Angels told them and they told everyone... everyone pretty much discounted their story as some kind of prank.

hello JohnDB, dirtfarmer here

If you study the temple shepherds you will find that they were different from regular shepherds.

 

[JohnDB]

hello JohnDB, dirtfarmer here

If you study the temple shepherds you will find that they were different from regular shepherds.

If what you are saying is true...then the people relegated to Sheepherding still wouldn't be the religious elite or highly appreciated members of society. Sure the sheep are more valuable but...who would they task for this?

 

[brother Paul]

In this case, IMHO, these men (or young men) would have been consecrated by the Priests for this specific task.

 

[ezra]

On an anthropology note...

Adults didn't do the sheepherding....it was a job relegated to children and youths. (Remember David as a child did it)

Usually the least/lowest members of their culture did this task. Sheep and goats are pretty compliant with any person. Young Women/maids often did this task if there wasn't any boys around to do it. (Moses's wife)

Soooo when the boys went to check on the story the Angels told them and they told everyone... everyone pretty much discounted their story as some kind of prank.

possible not saying yea or nay ..but these were not ordinary shepherds they was priestly shepherds and imo were of the levitate tribe . could i be wrong? possible but i stand by this as it all would tie in .the levitate tribe. was the ministering tribe in charge of the Tabernacle and each member was assigned a task associated to the tabernacle small or great . these shepherds did not need any direction.. could they been youth? possible we dont know .but what ever age they was .they was well trained they kept watch over the sheep. these shepherds was responsible for making sure they was pure with out spot or blemish. they wrapped the sacrificial lambs in swaddling cloths . may tie ins with the Birth of Christ

 

[ezra]

In this case, IMHO, these men (or young men) would have been consecrated by the Priests for this specific task.

exactly

 

[ezra]

If what you are saying is true...then the people relegated to Sheepherding still wouldn't be the religious elite or highly appreciated members of society. Sure the sheep are more valuable but...who would they task for this?

sorry but your missing the point .no they was not the so called religious elite . but if i was a gambling man so to speak. i would place my money that they had a close relation ship with God thus they knew once the angles announced . swaddling clothes ? the prophets of old foretold of his birth Micah his birth place Isaiah his birth and For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. so every one knew of many was blind to it, imo these shepherds had discernment

 

[JohnDB]

sorry but your missing the point .no they was not the so called religious elite . but if i was a gambling man so to speak. i would place my money that they had a close relation ship with God thus they knew once the angles announced . swaddling clothes ? the prophets of old foretold of his birth Micah his birth place Isaiah his birth and For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. so every one knew of many was blind to it, imo these shepherds had discernment

If you wish to believe that the shepherds were "special".... OK

The shepherds obviously believed the Angels...ok...good with that.

But the town's population would still discount everything they said because of what they were...they were shepherds.

It's in line with the least being the most important to God.
Whether the shepherds were out of the Levitical line or not isn't relevant(to me at least). But that they weren't Kings, leaders, or men of importance is key crucial to me.

 

[ezra]

If you wish to believe that the shepherds were "special".... OK

The shepherds obviously believed the Angels...ok...good with that.

But the town's population would still discount everything they said because of what they were...they were shepherds.

It's in line with the least being the most important to God.
Whether the shepherds were out of the Levitical line or not isn't relevant(to me at least). But that they weren't Kings, leaders, or men of importance is key crucial to me.

if i were to let you ..your water could put out a fire.. i fail to see what appears to be your hum drum perspective. i mean the tower of the flock is where the sacrificial lambs was birthed and kept wrapped in swaddling clothes. symbolic as with Christ as a lamb led to slaughter . pure lambs . evidently any type new revelation does not means any thing to you.. granted this is back ground history but it all ties in. the new testament backs up the old.. Jesus was not important to Kings, leaders, or men of importance . this is my last post with you. it has been a good discussion up to this point... sort of reminds me of a conversation i had 2 different times on foot washing.. they asked me where i got it from.. so i opened the Bible READ WHAT JESUS said to his disciples . 1 said i been a baptist all my life never heard of foot washing... some folks are just carnal. hope you have a merry Christmas

 

[JohnDB]

if i were to let you ..your water could put out a fire.. i fail to see what appears to be your hum drum perspective. i mean the tower of the flock is where the sacrificial lambs was birthed and kept wrapped in swaddling clothes. symbolic as with Christ as a lamb led to slaughter . pure lambs . evidently any type new revelation does not means any thing to you.. granted this is back ground history but it all ties in. the new testament backs up the old.. Jesus was not important to Kings, leaders, or men of importance . this is my last post with you. it has been a good discussion up to this point... sort of reminds me of a conversation i had 2 different times on foot washing.. they asked me where i got it from.. so i opened the Bible READ WHAT JESUS said to his disciples . 1 said i been a baptist all my life never heard of foot washing... some folks are just carnal. hope you have a merry Christmas

OK...
I see why you are having trouble with what I am saying.

Up to this point only leaders of some kind had any access to God. Family leaders, Rabbi, Kings, and Sanhedrin members...

God didn't speak to common men. (Joel is an exception to this rule)

That God would announce the culmination of millennium of action and prophecy of the One defining moment in history that was of world importance to some of the least members of Israeli society...

That's a huge shift...and part of the reason why you and I are able to handle scripture and explain it to others. Absolutely unthinkable in the day and time that this happened.

And

Merry Christmas!

 

[eddif]

Probably a little late - but.

I Chronicles 17:11 KJV
And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

Jesus is the Son well pleasing to the Father.
Jesus did the will of the Father.

Symbolism depends on revelation.

David began his work as a Shepard.
He defeated a bear and lion.
Jesus defeated sickness and deamons.

David defeated a giant.
Jesus defeated Satan the leader of evil.

Humble beginnings even to sheep.
Romans 1:19-20

The keeper of the sheep comes.

To understand parables begin at the parable of the sower. (If you do not understand this parable how will you understand any parable - from memory). Raise any symbolism to the highest possible spiritual significance.

Jesus is the body that cast the shadows.
Colossians 2:16-17

The body or reality is Jesus Christ. The shadows are the sheep, shepherds, etc

Always study to understand what casts the shadows. Jesus taught in shadows and revealed truth in private.

Any man now can use shadows to understand things of God (if you ask for wisdom)

eddif

 

[ezra]

its been a good discussion appreciate all the replies . i have studied and read tonight i will unwrap what the Lord has to say