Should women teach in the church?

[electedbyhim]

If you believed what you thought was not important, you probably wouldn't be still responding here.

I don't see the response in which you answered the questions. All I'm seeing are where you've quoted what I said so far.

It can be nitpicking when you're picking a part and using it against people without reading the entire passage it comes from. The few verses from 1 Timothy, you left out parts of that passage, that are important, by the way. Some Bible verses are okay as standalone's as they are separated from surrounding context or the point is carried through the entire passage.

In 1 Timothy, Paul was going through a lot of different subject matters in one passage. It refers to "women" and "a woman" in different passages. It's clear this was a situation for a certain place and time, not an absolute to use to the end of time.

Women sure can teach other women and children, but also - that passage does not say that women "can only" teach other women and children. That's not even Biblical.

Oh, I see! So if God creates man first then he's the leader. Oh, so I assume that means the entire animal kingdom is more important than he is, right? That's what you're saying. The animals came first, so they must be more important! Right! Of course! I knew I always favored them butterflies over dear Uncle Fred! -sigh- It's a ridiculous excuse.

Yes, God created "Eve" as a helper. Notice the word, though - helper. That's not a phrase that puts Eve above nor below Adam, but on par and equal with him. No indication of the definition of the word helper being "sub" is described.

How is women not preaching Biblical? How does "Church History" prove this?

You know who it was in the early Roman churches that hid in the catacombs that kept many services together? WOMEN! You want to know why? Because women meant squat in the Roman Empire, many in authority cared not about what women did, so there they were singing hymns in the name of Jesus Christ.

What about the women I mentioned? What about how Priscilla AND Aquila helped instruct Apollos?

What makes the idea of women leading so twisted?

You wouldn't know what it's like to be a woman in the church today, but for some of us - that wasn't always easy. I came from a church that I would dare call spiritually abusive...was there most of my life. They believed the same thing as you - that women are to be silent. While this was a mere small portion of their antics, it was something that ALWAYS HURT my faith in God and Jesus Christ and made me feel like a thorn in the church's side...like I didn't belong.

Imagine....

-You love singing the hymns and you're so on fire for Christ...oh, if you could only pick one hymn in front of the church so that everyone could sing it together. The feeling of belonging and worshipping Jesus Christ with everyone. But no, you can't...sit in the pew and sing from your book so then you can proceed to be quiet.

-You need prayers for someone in your family, but low and behold...you're the only one at the service that day. In order for your prayer to be said in that church service, you would need to tell it to another man in the church so he could say you needed the prayer because how dare they hand the microphone to a woman to announce the need of a prayer.

-You're asked to help prepare the Lord's Supper, but you must be there extra early so that you may do so unseen and completely out of sight in a side room because you are in fact...a woman.

-Subject matter is being preached and taught, but not even the people they allow to preach know how to research their Biblical materials before hand. They don't dare stop a moron going on about Sigmund Freud and the "ego" "super ego" or "id". No, they let that moron babble his mouth for an hour and a half, but how dare they let a woman that knows how to research Bible verses, historical context, and meanings of words in the Concordance to be sure the sermon makes sense because she's a woman - the idiot they chose to preach at a Christian church that gave a non-Christian sermon is obviously the superior choice.

-You want to stand up and sing at worship time, but you're stared at UNLESS everyone else (usually the men) stand up, too.

-Imagine wanting to clap with a worship hymn, but you're stared down for doing so unless it's a specific hymn where the men will clap with you.

-Imagine, someone scolding you for bad parenting because your daughter wants to dance to a worship song and stand up during worship to show her praise to our Creator.

It's a vicious cycle...a rather spiritually abusive one. It hurts. I don't mind if a man preaches, but I don't mind if a woman preaches, either. I don't feel this has anything to do with any feminist agenda. Rather, I do believe that we are all one in Jesus Christ and women should be able to preach as men are able to. Women can be just as capable, if not more of giving a Biblically sound and historically accurate sermon.

You have a lot going on there. I will be brief. A woman still cannot be a leader or Pastor in the church. That is all I am saying. They can teach other woman and children. I am not sure why you brought animals into the mix. Gods design was man and then brought woman out of man. No one said they are not equal. Man was created to be the head.

 

[electedbyhim]

to some degree i disagree on my drove home in the evening there is a woman pastor that comes on. yes i listen to her no other Gospel station i want listen to.. what i have heard from her was all Bible nothing false ..i think she is full Gospel only comes on twice a week

I understand what you are saying, but she is going against Gods qualifications in 1 Timothy 3.

 

[Cooper]

Part 3

The Contribution of Women

But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. (1Ti_2:15)

Preserved is from sozo, the common New Testament word for salvation. The word can also mean “to rescue,” “to preserve safe and unharmed,” “to heal,” “to set free,” or “to deliver from.” It appears a number of times in the New Testament without reference to spiritual salvation (cf. Mat_8:25; Mat_9:21-22; Mat_10:22; Mat_24:22; Mat_27:40, Mat_27:42, Mat_27:49; 2Ti_4:18). Paul obviously does not intend to teach that women are eternally saved from the wages of sin through the bearing of children. That would contradict the New Testament's teaching that salvation is by grace through faith alone (cf. Rom_3:19-20). The future tense and the use of the plural pronoun they indicate that he was not even referring to Eve. The plural and the absence of any connection to the context show Paul was not referring to Mary, the mother of Jesus, as some suggest.

Paul teaches here that although a woman precipitated the Fall and women bear that responsibility, yet they may be preserved from that stigma through childbearing. The rescue, the delivery, the freeing of women from the stigma of having led the race into sin happens when they bring up a righteous seed. What a perfect counter! Women are far from being second-class citizens because they have the primary responsibility for rearing godly children. Mothers spend far more time with their children than do their fathers, and thus have the greater influence. Fathers cannot know the intimate relationship with their children that their mother establishes from pregnancy, birth, infancy, and early childhood. Paul's point is that while a woman may have led the race into sin, women have the privilege of leading the race out of sin to godliness. That does not mean that God wants all women to bear children; some He doesn't even want married (1Co_7:25-40). Paul speaks in general terms. The pain associated with childbirth was the punishment for the woman's sin (Gen_3:16), but the joy and privilege of child rearing delivers women from the stigma of that sin.

For women to reverse the blight that has befallen them in the Fall and fulfill their calling they need to raise a godly seed. To do that, they must continue in faith and love, where their salvation really rests. And they must continue in sanctity (Holiness) with self-restraint (The same word translated “discreetly” in verse 1Ti_2:9). It is the very appearance, demeanor, and behavior demanded of believing women in the church that becomes their deliverance from any inferior status, as they live godly and raise godly children.

In this passage we see how God has perfectly balanced the roles of the sexes. (For a complete discussion of the design of God for men and women in the church, see my book Different by Design [Wheaton, Ill.: Victor, 1994].) Men are to be the leaders in the church and the family. Women are kept from any accusation of inferiority through the godly influence they have in the lives of their precious children. For the church to depart from this divine order is to perpetuate the disaster of the Fall.

Excellent work, but that was for the early Christian Church that had numerous problems, not least from the newly converted Jews, and as with Paul's teaching on pork for example, he needed to navigate a path through that was acceptable to all, Jew and Gentile alike and as the Jews had very strict laws relating to the status of women, they had to be accommodated or there would not be a church at all. They were already returning to their ancient traditions as it was.
.

 

[electedbyhim]

Excellent work, but that was for the early Christian Church that had numerous problems, not least from the newly converted Jews, and as with Paul's teaching on pork for example, he needed to navigate a path through that was acceptable to all, Jew and Gentile alike and as the Jews had very strict laws relating to the status of women, they had to be accommodated or there would not be a church at all. They were already returning to their ancient traditions as it was.
.

The early Christian church. So what is written in the Bible does not apply today?

I will say that most of my commentaries, but not all agree on the position of woman in the church. I know that there are many commentaries today that will "update" their views to todays culture. I am pretty certain there are also bibles today that reflect todays culture.

Does this all come down to what one wants to believe? I do not know. We all have a bias.

For myself, I just go by what the Bible and trusted theologians and pastors have written that have been around for centuries.

 

[Cooper]

The early Christian church. So what is written in the Bible does not apply today?

I will say that most of my commentaries, but not all agree on the position of woman in the church. I know that there are many commentaries today that will "update" their views to todays culture. I am pretty certain there are also bibles today that reflect todays culture.

Does this all come down to what one wants to believe? I do not know. We all have a bias.

For myself, I just go by what the Bible and trusted theologians and pastors have written that have been around for centuries.

Perhaps we should check to see who Paul was writing to. His teaching on pork for example was different depending on whether you were a Jew or a Gentile. Basically, he told the Jews to carry on as before, and it was the same with regard to women. Speaking as a Gentile, I am not going to adopt the Jewish way of doing things and treating women like second class citizens. If that were to happen, I suspect today's women would leave the church in their droves.
.

 

[electedbyhim]

Perhaps we should check to see who Paul was writing to. His teaching on pork for example was different depending on whether you were a Jew or a Gentile. Basically, he told the Jews to carry on as before, and it was the same with regard to women. Speaking as a Gentile, I am not going to adopt the Jewish way of doing things and treating women like second class citizens. If that were to happen, I suspect today's women would leave the church in their droves.
.

Pork is not in the context of the subject. 1 Timothy is part of the Pastoral epistles if that even matters.

 

[jerry63935]

I understand what you are saying, but she is going against Gods qualifications in 1 Timothy 3.

once again then it is her that will lose that work tried by fire. she will be the one give account

They can teach other woman and children

as a adult i have sat under some fine women teachers in Sunday school . they by far was false teachers and they was led of the spirit

 

[jerry63935]

this keeps going back and forth and getting no place. there are MEN who simply do not belong behind the pulpit. some of the church has given the big thumbs up to. homosexuals' in the pulpit. given a big thumbs up to same sex marriage . along with Abortion . i dont see any post against that.

 

[Free]

Free,

You haven't bothered to consider the word for authority in 1 Tim 2:12 (authentein) is not the same word for authority in 1 Cor:11:5 (exousia). There's a world of a difference between the meaning of the 2 words.

Oz

Yes, there is a difference. What is interesting is that you first argued to the disagreement among scholars in the interpretation of 1 Tim 2:12, yet are arguing to 1 Cor 11:5 (by which I'm assuming you mean 11:10), which has probably even more disagreement. Indeed, that whole passage is difficult. It is also worth noting that although Paul mentions women prophesying, he is simply stating what is taking place in the Corinthian assembly, neither condoning nor condemning the act, unlike 1 Cor 14:34-35.

Authenteo means to "exercise authority over" or "have dominion over," and is the only place in the NT it is used. Some of the ambiguity in 1 Cor 11:10 is that exousia means many different things, although it is most often translated as "authority." It seems to me, that beginning in verse 3, by stating the headship of a husband over his wife, which is context you haven't addressed, that verse 10 is speaking of the husband being the authority over his wife, symbolized by the covering Paul says she should be wearing.

 

[jaybo]

I am a firm believer that if a woman wants to take on the role of a Pastor, she will not be led by Holy Spirit, further more there will be false doctrine taught.

Why would God bless anyone going against His word.

This is just plain wrong. Why on Earth do you think that if a woman wants to take on the role of a Pastor, she will not be led by Holy Spirit? And that she will teach false doctrine?

To whom did Jesus give the message to deliver to the disciples that He was resurrected? Mary. Did Jesus make a mistake telling a woman to deliver this most important message to the disciples?

 

[jaybo]

In case some are not aware, it's the 21st Century. In most Western societies women are equal to men in virtually every area. This includes education, ability to teach, ability to lead, etc. It is nonsense to think that women are incapable of teaching in the church or fulfilling any other role to which God calls them. They are filled with the same Holy Spirit as men!

We are not living in a 1st Century, male-controlled society wherein women were slightly above livestock: the property of men, uneducated, with no role in society other than raising his children.

 

[Free]

In case some are not aware, it's the 21st Century. In most Western societies women are equal to men in virtually every area. This includes education, ability to teach, ability to lead, etc.

Your entire argument has no bearing on 1 Tim 2:12. The irony is, women are equal to men in most Western societies because of Christianity, because of what Jesus and the Apostles taught. Again, you are mistaking equality for function. Several of you seem to be under the assumption that difference in (God-ordained) function means a difference in equality. But that is false.

It is nonsense to think that women are incapable of teaching in the church or fulfilling any other role to which God calls them. They are filled with the same Holy Spirit as men!

The argument has never been that women are incapable; that is a straw man. Whether or not women are capable of teaching in the church is utterly irrelevant if God himself says that women are not to teach in the church, just as it is irrelevant if they can fulfill any other role if God says that women are not to have spiritual authority over men within the assembled church.

We are not living in a 1st Century, male-controlled society wherein women were slightly above livestock: the property of men, uneducated, with no role in society other than raising his children.

That is that a generalization that isn't entirely true (see Acts 16:14, for example).

If you want to continue using this argument to culture, you must first show that Paul was referring only to some cultural issue that wasn't binding on all believers for all times. Yet, as has been shown, Paul first argues to the creation of Adam before Eve, and then argues to Eve being the one deceived, not Adam. In other words, he roots his argument in both the created order and the woman being the first to sin, perhaps thinking of her as the "weaker vessel" (1 Pet 3:7). Additionally, Paul and Peter both state that men are the head of their house and that wives are to be in submission. Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with equality.

Some other things to keep in mind: First, we have clear verses regarding elders/overseers, that they are to "be the husband of one wife" (1 Tim 3:2; Titus 1:6). Notice that that contrasts with a requirement for enrollment of widows--"having been the wife of one husband" (1 Tim 5:9). Second, we have several passages showing the headship of a man over his wife (Gen 3:6; 1 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:22-24; Col 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet 3:1, 5-6). Again, it is rooted in the sin of Eve. Third, it would be exceedingly odd to argue for male headship in the home, but then ignore it in regards to the assembled church. This is noted in 1 Cor 14:34-35, where Paul says that "women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission." While there is some disagreement as to what Paul means, we know he permits women to pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11:5), and likely to speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, but here he says there is to be submission. Fourth, something that is glaringly obvious, is that no apostles were women.

 

[Free]

To whom did Jesus give the message to deliver to the disciples that He was resurrected? Mary. Did Jesus make a mistake telling a woman to deliver this most important message to the disciples?

This is irrelevant regarding 1 Tim 2:12 as it has nothing to do with Mary teaching and exercising authority over men within the assembled church. The most important things to understand from God choosing women to be the first eye-witnesses of Jesus's resurrection, are 1) their testimony wasn't worth anything, so it shows the likely authenticity of the accounts of Jesus's resurrection, and 2) it increases the status of women.

 

[jerry63935]

lol this post is going no place .if one thinks it ok for woman teach/preach so be it ..if one be does not so be it

 

[Free]

lol this post is going no place .if one thinks it ok for woman teach/preach so be it ..if one be does not so be it

Do you think it matters what the Bible says about what Christians are and are not to believe and practice?

 

[jaybo]

Your entire argument has no bearing on 1 Tim 2:12. The irony is, women are equal to men in most Western societies because of Christianity, because of what Jesus and the Apostles taught. Again, you are mistaking equality for function. Several of you seem to be under the assumption that difference in (God-ordained) function means a difference in equality. But that is false.


The argument has never been that women are incapable; that is a straw man. Whether or not women are capable of teaching in the church is utterly irrelevant if God himself says that women are not to teach in the church, just as it is irrelevant if they can fulfill any other role if God says that women are not to have spiritual authority over men within the assembled church.


That is that a generalization that isn't entirely true (see Acts 16:14, for example).

If you want to continue using this argument to culture, you must first show that Paul was referring only to some cultural issue that wasn't binding on all believers for all times. Yet, as has been shown, Paul first argues to the creation of Adam before Eve, and then argues to Eve being the one deceived, not Adam. In other words, he roots his argument in both the created order and the woman being the first to sin, perhaps thinking of her as the "weaker vessel" (1 Pet 3:7). Additionally, Paul and Peter both state that men are the head of their house and that wives are to be in submission. Again, that has absolutely nothing to do with equality.

Some other things to keep in mind: First, we have clear verses regarding elders/overseers, that they are to "be the husband of one wife" (1 Tim 3:2; Titus 1:6). Notice that that contrasts with a requirement for enrollment of widows--"having been the wife of one husband" (1 Tim 5:9). Second, we have several passages showing the headship of a man over his wife (Gen 3:6; 1 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:22-24; Col 3:18; Titus 2:5; 1 Pet 3:1, 5-6). Again, it is rooted in the sin of Eve. Third, it would be exceedingly odd to argue for male headship in the home, but then ignore it in regards to the assembled church. This is noted in 1 Cor 14:34-35, where Paul says that "women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission." While there is some disagreement as to what Paul means, we know he permits women to pray and prophesy (1 Cor 11:5), and likely to speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, but here he says there is to be submission. Fourth, something that is glaringly obvious, is that no apostles were women.

Believe whatever you want. It's of no concern to me. Unlike yourself, I am not under the law. Simply because Paul wrote a rule for a single church two thousand years ago doesn't mean that it should hold true for all time in every place.

You might want to read this account carefully...

John 1:4-42

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

“I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

"Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?” [sound familiar???]

Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did". So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. And because of his words many became believers.

They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

So, what happened here??? Jesus poke to a Samaritan woman! Samaritans were despised by the Jews, and women were the underclass. Either Jesus had no idea what He was doing or He spoke to the woman, telling her that He was the long-awaited Messiah, and she went and told others what she had learned! And many of the Samaritans believed in the Messiah because of what she said.

So, the argument that women shouldn't teach in church is completely negated by this example and others. Jesus told this despised woman that He was the Messiah, and she went and told the news to her townspeople, similar to when He told the women when He was resurrected to go tell the news to His disciples.

It is nonsense to say that women shouldn't teach in the church or anywhere else, unless you claim that Jesus didn't understand God's will. Making what Paul wrote into a new version of the Law is a very serious error!

 

[electedbyhim]

this keeps going back and forth and getting no place. there are MEN who simply do not belong behind the pulpit. some of the church has given the big thumbs up to. homosexuals' in the pulpit. given a big thumbs up to same sex marriage . along with Abortion . i dont see any post against that.

I agree with this post. Please make a thread on theses issues.

 

[jaybo]

this keeps going back and forth and getting no place. there are MEN who simply do not belong behind the pulpit. some of the church has given the big thumbs up to. homosexuals' in the pulpit. given a big thumbs up to same sex marriage . along with Abortion . i dont see any post against that.

Off topic and wrong.

 

[electedbyhim]

Believe whatever you want. It's of no concern to me. Unlike yourself, I am not under the law. Simply because Paul wrote a rule for a single church two thousand years ago doesn't mean that it should hold true for all time in every place.

You might want to read this account carefully...

John 1:4-42

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

“I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

"Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?” [sound familiar???]

Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did". So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. And because of his words many became believers.

They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

So, what happened here??? Jesus poke to a Samaritan woman! Samaritans were despised by the Jews, and women were the underclass. Either Jesus had no idea what He was doing or He spoke to the woman, telling her that He was the long-awaited Messiah, and she went and told others what she had learned! And many of the Samaritans believed in the Messiah because of what she said.

So, the argument that women shouldn't teach in church is completely negated by this example and others. Jesus told this despised woman that He was the Messiah, and she went and told the news to her townspeople, similar to when He told the women when He was resurrected to go tell the news to His disciples.

It is nonsense to say that women shouldn't teach in the church or anywhere else, unless you claim that Jesus didn't understand God's will. Making what Paul wrote into a new version of the Law is a very serious error!

But she was not teaching or trying to lead or Pastor a church. She was sharing the gospel.

Again woman can teach other woman and children in the church.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful,

It's time for you to write to the translators of The Revised English Bible and tell them they were wrong with their translation of 1 Tim 2:12 (REB): "I do not permit a woman to teach or, more specifically, to impose authority over a man while first needing to learn, rather she is not to cause a disturbance."

Oz

That sounded OK to me.
KJV..."But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (1 Tim 2:12)
Your version added its own opinion to the scripture, but it didn't change the intent of the scripture.
Women are not to teach men.
That in only one of the reasons they are precluded from leading a church.