The Mark of the Beast (what it really is explained)

[mattcandyc]

They say, that in around 50 years time, computers could be so advanced that it's worrying, I say put a stop to it now:-

This Stanford researcher isn't worried about Google's 'sentient' chatbot: A truly sentient AI could be '50 years' away

Google recently suspended an engineer who became convinced that the company's AI-powered chatbot had achieved sentience. AI experts say that's not the case – and likely won't be for decades.

www.cnbc.com

 

[mattcandyc]

This article is about

A truly sentient AI​

Hers the story​

 

[mattcandyc]

Here's another creepy storyLink

 

[Corn Pop]

He tried. Lol. I must say it's quite hilarious.

'Mark of the beast': Bible fragment cited in bid to avoid driver licence photo

Orthodox Christian Stephen Butcher doesn't want his photo on his driver's licence.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Mister E]

I still do not believe the mark of the beast is a physical mark that is visible on ones body but exactly what it is I do not know for sure. Please do your own research and let God teach you.

I’m glad you recognize that your ideas are beliefs.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

"The Mark of The Beast"

As I read through this thread it appears to me as a whole there is little understanding of the “Mark of The Beast” with respect to the objectives of God during the tribulation.

It is said that nobody can understand any one apocalyptic prophecy (the seventeen found within Dan., & Rev.) without understanding how they all support and harmonize to form one big cohesive picture. The “Mark of the Beast” is just one peace of that puzzle.

First one should understand that the start of the Tribulation awaits God’s appointed time. Is does not depend on the actions of man, as many assume to spread the gospel to all the world, and then the end will come. It is true however, that the end will come once the gospel is heard throughout the whole world. But it will be by God’s doings, not man’s. God has also predetermined that the tribulation will only last 1335 literal days. (Dan. 12:9-13)

God will personally select 144,000, servant prophets, men, women of all ages, to speak the words He gives them to speak, they will be selected from all cultures and religions, and speak within their culture and religion that they must worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. (Rev. 7:1-3) The sealing of these prophets is when God removes their carnal nature and gives them a “un-fallen nature”, so that they can perform the the task that God will require of them during earths darkest hour under the most difficult times the world will have experienced. These are the “first fruits” (Rev.14:4) of the great harvest that will be gathered in during the tribulation. (Rev.7:9-14)

God has designed the events of the tribulation for judging the living, because at the predetermined time of His return all the living must have made the choice whether they worship Him, or Satan. There will only be two groups of people, those who have chosen to worship Satan and have received the “ Mark of the Beast, or those with the seal of God, who have chosen to worship God.

To get the attention of everyone and to force everyone to make a decision as to who they shall worship, God is going to end life as we know it in one day by sounding the first Trumpet, followed by three others in quick succession. These are literal world wide events. (Rev. 8:7-12) The four angles of Rev. 7:2,3, which were told not to “Harm the Land, sea or trees”, until…, are the same angles who blow the first four trumpets of Rev. 8, which bring destruction upon the earth. The tribulation begins with the opening of the fourth seal of (Rev. 6:8).

During the sounding of the first four trumpet judgments which will span a very short time span, and harming a third of the earth, and killing a fourth of earths population, not to mention the injured, (Rev.6:8) God will get the undivided attention of all. At this time the first of four messages delivered, by His, “Servants the Prophets/ 144,000”, is, “ Fear God, and give Him Glory, because the hour of His judgement has come.” (Rev.14:7)

It is because of these “Trumpet Judgements”, which has put the world into a survival mode, Which causes the, “beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horn, and seven heads, of Rev. 13: 1, to emerge. This will be a world wide crisis, political (ten horns) and religious (seven heads with blasphemous name) coalition, formed to stop the wrath of God, least the whole world be destroyed. This church/state coalition is later called, “Babylon”, in Rev., and Satan gives this “Beast” his power for 42 literal months. (Rev.13:3,4)

At the opening of the fifth trumpet, (also the first woe) two and a half literal years into the tribulation, after which time the living have had ample time to hear the gospel being preach by God’s, “Servants/prophets/144,000”, God will release Satan from the Spirit realm so that he and his demons can appear in the flesh before mankind. God is sending the wicked this delusion because they refused to believe His servants the prophets. (2Thess. 2:9-12) God gives them five months to torture anyone not having the, “Seal of God” in their foreheands (Rev. 9:5).

After the five literal months pass the Sixth trumpet sounds and God allows Satan and his demons to, “kill a third of mankind”, (Rev. 9: 13-21) This is where the, “Mark of the Beast,” fits into the big picture. It is Satan’s literal mark/ tattoo (666), on the right hand of the wicked who refuse to worship God, and Satan’s name will be a literal tattoo in the foreheads of his lieutenants. This will be required in order to buy and sell when food and provisions will be life threatening.

All of these events God has predetermined for the purpose of separating the wheat/righteous from the tares/wicked during the tribulation. The living during this time will past judgment upon themselves either by receiving the “Seal of God, or the Mark of the Beast,” as opposed to those who have died before this time will be judged out of the, “The books of Record/Deeds.

When the Seventh trumpet sounds, the heavens are opened and the “Ark of His Covenant /Ten Commandments,” is revealed within heavens temple. This brings God’s offer of salvation to and end. God reveals His Covenant to all who remain on earth. The righteous will be comforted, and the wicked will know why they alone will be recipients of God’s seven last plagues, or bowl judgements, which are to come. Poured out without mercy on those having the, “Mark of the Beast”. At the end of the seven last bowl judgements Christ returns to gather in the harvest of righteous individuals, and raises the righteous dead and takes them to heaven to rein with Him there for a thousand years.

I hope this thumb nail version of closing events as it encompasses the “Mark of The Beast”, brings into focus the bigger picture and a better understanding of God’s plans to rescue man from this world of sin.

It’s all very easy to understand if you see how it was fulfilled in the past. The objectives of God during this time of Jacob’s trouble is to punish an extraordinary evil people, the Jews, who crucified Christ and murdered his followers to eliminate their society from the earth. Jesus predicted it and so it happened.

The mark of the beast is not a physical chip or computer tattoo. How could that be bad? I think it’s a mindset in thinking and deeds like a hallmark. This one sees in people from time to time. (Not that hallmark as that’s over and done.) It’s maybe on the line of what the Bible calls “worthless men.”

 

[Runner]

The verses themselves make abundantly clear to me that they are talking about a physical mark. I don't see how they can reasonably be interpreted in any other way. If we believe that Revelation was completely fulfilled in the first century (preterism), is there any historical evidence of any mark of any sort being required to buy or sell? I believe the answer is no.

16And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark— the name of the beast or the number of its name.​

I'm typically not a Bible literalist. But when verses are this straightforward and can't reasonably be read in any other way, I am.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The verses themselves make abundantly clear to me that they are talking about a physical mark. I don't see how they can reasonably be interpreted in any other way. If we believe that Revelation was completely fulfilled in the first century (preterism), is there any historical evidence of any mark of any sort being required to buy or sell? I believe the answer is no.

16And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark— the name of the beast or the number of its name.​

I'm typically not a Bible literalist. But when verses are this straightforward and can't reasonably be read in any other way, I am.

The lack of evidence of a physical
mark is likely there was no mark. And why would a tattoo be so horrible?

 

[Runner]

The lack of evidence of a physical
mark is likely there was no mark. And why would a tattoo be so horrible?

I'm not following you. The absence of a mark historically is most plausibly explained by the view that Revelation is talking about a future event, one that has not yet taken place. So I would agree that it's "likely there was no mark," but I thought your position was that Revelation was fulfilled in the first century?

I didn't say anything about a tattoo. A tattoo would be fine as the mark of the beast, but (1) there is no evidence historically that all people were required to have tattoos on their right hands or foreheads in order to buy or sell, and (2) a tattoo seems pretty low-tech for the modern era.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm not following you. The absence of a mark historically is most plausibly explained by the view that Revelation is talking about a future event, one that has not yet taken place. So I would agree that it's "likely there was no mark," but I thought your position was that Revelation was fulfilled in the first century?

The weight of history and Revelation itself tells us it was in our past. One verse doesn’t change that.

I didn't say anything about a tattoo. A tattoo would be fine as the mark of the beast, but (1) there is no evidence historically that all people were required to have tattoos on their right hands or foreheads in order to buy or sell, and (2) a tattoo seems pretty low-tech for the modern era.

The head is the center of thought. The hand is what you do. A physical mark is not evil and makes no sense in terms of eternal punishment. That’s my point.

From the compliance to the vaccine mandate or no job, you can see that no physical mark is necessary for the people to do as they’re told so they can buy or sell.

 

[Runner]

The weight of history and Revelation itself tells us it was in our past. One verse doesn’t change that.

The head is the center of thought. The hand is what you do. A physical mark is not evil and makes no sense in terms of eternal punishment. That’s my point.

From the compliance to the vaccine mandate or no job, you can see that no physical mark is necessary for the people to do as they’re told so they can buy or sell.

It seems to me you're elevating "theology the way I'd like it to be" over the clear biblical language. The "one verse" In Revelation is central to the theme of the Antichrist. Those who take the mark of the beast will have aligned themselves with the Antichrist - no small matter and one that does have serious implications for their eternal fate. Sure, no physical mark is necessary to control whether people will be able to buy or sell, but a physical mark is what Revelation clearly describes. I find it humorous that I'm defending a literalist interpretation because the shoe is usually on the other foot, but when the Bible is as clear as it is here I can't in good conscience "creatively (mis)interpret" the clear language just to preserve a theology that makes me happier.

But I won't argue further since I've made my points.

 

[Goldwing]

It’s all very easy to understand if you see how it was fulfilled in the past. T

All the prophecies combined in Rev., tell a comprehensive story, which reveal the, "Mark" is a word wide event. Rev. 16, speaks of the seven angels having the seven last vials/bowl judgements, which contain God's full wrath which will be poured out on those who have the, "Mark of the Beast." This all takes place according to prophecy, just before His second coming.

Your reply quoted here has to do with how one understands the, "Mark of the Beast." You believe it has been fulfilled in the past.

What historical events do preterist use to prove the mark and the bowl/vial judgements are fulfilled?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It seems to me you're elevating "theology the way I'd like it to be" over the clear biblical language.

Not at all. I understand the Hebrew thinking and writing which uses a lot more metaphors. You’re looking at it from a western culture viewpoint.

The "one verse" In Revelation is central to the theme of the Antichrist.

There is no Antichrist in Revelation.

Those who take the mark of the beast will have aligned themselves with the Antichrist - no small matter and one that does have serious implications for their eternal fate.

There is not a single mention of Antichrist in the whole book. Do a search.

Sure, no physical mark is necessary to control whether people will be able to buy or sell, but a physical mark is what Revelation clearly describes.

No more than the physical sun will turn black and all life on earth then dies.

I find it humorous that I'm defending a literalist interpretation because the shoe is usually on the other foot, but when the Bible is as clear as it is here I can't in good conscience "creatively (mis)interpret" the clear language just to preserve a theology that makes me happier.

It’s clear but a metaphor. Jesus isn’t a literal door and God isn’t a literal rock.

But I won't argue further since I've made my points.

You’re missing the Hebrew love of metaphors.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

All the prophecies combined in Rev., tell a comprehensive story, which reveal the, "Mark" is a word wide event.

Where does it say in that verse “the whole world including remote island tribes?”

Rev. 16, speaks of the seven angels having the seven last vials/bowl judgements, which contain God's full wrath which will be poured out on those who have the, "Mark of the Beast." This all takes place according to prophecy, just before His second coming.

No, the second coming of Christ does not follow immediately. Revelation itself describes several events that obviously are many years in endurance,

Your reply quoted here has to do with how one understands the, "Mark of the Beast." You believe it has been fulfilled in the past.

What historical events do preterist use to prove the mark and the bowl/vial judgements are fulfilled?

The mark was local. The wrath of God in description matches the events in Palestine during those years. And Jesus said it would happen to them in their lifetime.

 

[Goldwing]

Sure, no physical mark is necessary to control whether people will be able to buy or sell, but a physical mark is what Revelation clearly describes.

Runner, I believe your understanding of a literal mark is correct. I like your responses to Mae. Based on your quote above. I have to ask, do you understand, based on prophecy, the condition of the world at the time the "mark" is implemented, and if so explain.

 

[Runner]

Runner, I believe your understanding of a literal mark is correct. I like your responses to Mae. Based on your quote above. I have to ask, do you understand, based on prophecy, the condition of the world at the time the "mark" is implemented, and if so explain.

No, that question is pretty far from anything I give much thought to - sorry. From what I read, the prevailing view is that it will be implemented about half-way through the Tribulation. I don't really get into the nuts and bolts of the End Times beyond what Jesus described in Matthew 24. My participation here was simply because Revelation seems so clearly to be talking about a physical mark that I find it curious anyone would try to "explain it away."

 

[Mister E]

The weight of history and Revelation itself tells us it was in our past. One verse doesn’t change that.

The head is the center of thought. The hand is what you do. A physical mark is not evil and makes no sense in terms of eternal punishment. That’s my point.

From the compliance to the vaccine mandate or no job, you can see that no physical mark is necessary for the people to do as they’re told so they can buy or sell.

That’s true regarding the head and the hand.... but if your ideas require you to dismiss even “one verse” then you should be willing to re-examine your beliefs. Yet Runner wasn’t referencing “one verse” as a sticking point. He was asking if there was any evidence (that you know of) that would be indicative of first century people requiring a mark in order to buy and sell- to give credence to the preterist claim that the whole of Revelation was fulfilled in those days.

For example if someone was to claim that the faithful needed a mark to avoid death and destruction at the time of the Exodus, we could show that it wasn’t simply symbolic or metaphor or ‘spiritual’ in nature, but that there was a physical equivalent— that being the lamb’s blood on the lintel and doorposts.... scripture affirms.

 

[Runner]

That’s true regarding the head and the hand.... but if your ideas require you to dismiss even “one verse” then you should be willing to re-examine your beliefs. Yet Runner wasn’t referencing “one verse” as a sticking point. He was asking if there was any evidence (that you know of) that would be indicative of first century people requiring a mark in order to buy and sell- to give credence to the preterist claim that the whole of Revelation was fulfilled in those days.

For example if someone was to claim that the faithful needed a mark to avoid death and destruction at the time of the Exodus, we could show that it wasn’t simply symbolic or metaphor or ‘spiritual’ in nature, but that there was a physical equivalent— that being the lamb’s blood on the lintel and doorposts.... scripture affirms.

I see now that there is pretty widespread disagreement among Christians as to whether the mark is a literal physical mark or something symbolic or metaphorical. I'm going to stick with my literal interpretation. It's highly significant to me that the Greek word used by John, charagma, means a stamp, etching, engraving, or impression, as well as the brand a master places on an animal or slave. Pretty "physical," I would say.

The specificity is also telling: the "right hand" or "forehead." The followers don't just take the beast's mark - they take it in two highly visible places, just as one might expect if the mark were "required to buy or sell." In order to be required to buy or sell, it would have to be visible.

I'm also somewhat influenced by the fact that the verses would have been much more puzzling to someone in the time of John. Today, we can much more easily understand how a detectable but non-disfiguring electronic or genetic "mark" might be placed on the hand or forehead and become a requirement to buy or sell.

Some of the symbolic interpretations strike me as almost insane - desperate attempts to preserve really fringe theology. On top of that, even if the mark were symbolic, I know of no historical record from the time of Revelation suggesting that any group that might reasonably be described as "all people, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves" was required to have any sort of identification - even something like an oath - in order to buy or sell.

As Mister E. suggests, this does seem to be to be an issue that might cause a preterist to rethink his or her position.

 

[Mister E]

The first beast (out of the sea) is spiritual, the second (out of the earth) refers to the physical manifestation. That’s how you know the mark too, is referencing something physical. The second beast sets up “an image” or physical representation of the first (spiritual) beast who was wounded to honor it and is given power to give breath to this image of the first beast so that it (the image that is given breath) will force all to worship this one or face death. It’s the same passage that mentions that all people will be forced to receive this mark and without it will not be able to conduct commerce.

In other scriptures, we see Adam- a physical man made in the image of his creator and given the breath of life. In Daniel we see a King who makes an image of something he saw in dream (in spirit) and he requires all the people to worship this image or face death. These are not isolated or unique ideas. The writer of this book of what Jesus Christ revealed to John employs these well known concepts and leverages them to impart understanding.

Jesus said, when questioned about taxes- ‘Bring me the coin that is used for paying taxes— Who’s image is on it? Who’s likeness?’

‘Caesar’s’ they answered.

‘Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.’

He’s clearly begging the question- ‘Who’s image is man made in?’ As far as commerce- or death and taxes were concerned- the mark that was needed (then and now) is the seal of the authority- the one in charge. If you don’t ‘buy in’ to the system (with your thinking and the things you put your hand to) you don’t participate in the economy. This is but one example of how these spiritual concepts can manifest physically.

I will say that theological gymnastics are required for literalists. Be nimble.

 

[Goldwing]

No, that question is pretty far from anything I give much thought to - sorry. From what I read, the prevailing view is that it will be implemented about half-way through the Tribulation. I don't really get into the nuts and bolts of the End Times beyond what Jesus described in Matthew 24. My participation here was simply because Revelation seems so clearly to be talking about a physical mark that I find it curious anyone would try to "explain it away."

Runner, the reason people interpret it other than a literal interpretation is basically for two reasons.

One, they have no knowledge that God built four natural laws/hermeneutics into Apocalyptic Prophecy. Therefore, to interpret them correctly ones must apply them correctly. Just like solving any math problem one must apply certain laws in order to solve the problem correctly.

Two, Without using any proven hermeneutics, expositors treat prophecy like a nose of wax to make it fit their personal bias, instead of letting the prophecies speak for themselves. These interpretations are classified as private interpretations. Hundreds of them out there.

I would encourage you to consider a deeper study of end time events. The plans God has predetermined for gathering in the greatest harvest of saints of all times is just ahead of us, and you and I could be participants. God has given us the details, and those who wish to know must make the effort in understanding His prophecies. An amazing study.

My I suggest, you read a thread of mine, entitled, "Why the Experts Disagree" In it the four hermeneutics I mentioned earlier are explained. If that makes sense to you, and your interested in learning more. Let me know and I will suggest to you what I think is the best commentary on prophecy for understand closing events. The book is free to read online.