The Temple in Jerusalem

[JLB]

Who says...you? Or, chapter and verse.

Quantrill

The first thing to understand is that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

Once a person realizes this, and accepts what the scripture says, rather than being persuaded by denominational teaching or premillennialism or whatever a person has been indoctrinated by, then it’s easy to see that the church will be here until the coming of the Lord.


Do you understand that the coming of the Lord refers to the second coming of Christ?


Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.
‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the LORD of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
Jeremiah 30:6-8


The first thing a person who is seeking the truth must understand is, “Jacob” is a diaspora term that refers to Israel who is not occupying the promised land.

This is pre 1948.

• So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins like a woman in labor, and all faces turned pale?

This is a clear prophetic declaration of the men in the gas chambers.

• But he shall be saved out of it.

There was indeed a small remnant saved out of that time, and lived to tell about it.


That I will break his yoke from your neck, and will burst your bonds;

This is a reference to one man who was the architect of the atrocities... Adolf Hitler; a type of the antichrist




JLB

 

[JLB]

I thought the Church was the Temple at this time. Why are you placing the Temple of the Jews and the Temple which is the Church on earth at the same time?

Because that is what scripture teaches.

• concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him

• for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The Lord comes on the last day to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, as well as destroy the antichrist and the wicked.

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


These three events all occur at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

 

[Quantrill]

The first thing to understand is that the resurrection and rapture occur at His coming.

Once a person realizes this, and accepts what the scripture says, rather than being persuaded by denominational teaching or premillennialism or whatever a person has been indoctrinated by, then it’s easy to see that the church will be here until the coming of the Lord.


Do you understand that the coming of the Lord refers to the second coming of Christ?


Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?
Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.
‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’
Says the LORD of hosts,
‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
Jeremiah 30:6-8


The first thing a person who is seeking the truth must understand is, “Jacob” is a diaspora term that refers to Israel who is not occupying the promised land.

This is pre 1948.

• So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins like a woman in labor, and all faces turned pale?

This is a clear prophetic declaration of the men in the gas chambers.

• But he shall be saved out of it.

There was indeed a small remnant saved out of that time, and lived to tell about it.

• That I will break his yoke from your neck, and will burst your bonds;

This is a reference to one man who was the architect of the atrocities... Adolf Hitler



JLB

Jacob refers to Israel, yes. That (Jer. 30:1-8) refers to the Holocaust and Hitler is but your interpretation. If any accept that, then you have to say the Scripture is wrong concerning the Tribulation being the worst persecution ever.

That is what is said in (Jer. 30:7) "Alas for that day is great, so that none is like it..."

And Jesus affirmed that the Tribulation would be just such a period. (Matt. 24:21) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

And the Book of (Revelation) is speaking to that time period. (Rev. 7:14) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The Holocaust was terrible, of course. And this speaks to how terrible the Tribulation will be for it will be far worse. The Holocaust wasn't the worst. The worst is yet to come.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Because that is what scripture teaches.

• concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him

• for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The Lord comes on the last day to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, as well as destroy the antichrist and the wicked.

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


These three events all occur at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

No, that is what you are teaching. That is what you are interpreting.

As I have said, all the verses you give are true. But you place the Church and Israel, and their temple, together on earth at the same time. Not Scripture.

In other words, you have two Temples on earth. Which is confusion.

The Second Coming of Christ to the earth results in the destruction of antichrist. The Rapture is not the coming of Christ to the earth, it is the Church being called out. (1 Thess. 4:16-17)

So, I disagree that the three events you mention occur at the same time. This is the order of events I see based upon the Dispensational view of end time events.

1.) The Resurrection and Rapture of the Church.
2.) The 7 year Tribulation.
3.) The Coming of Christ to the earth.

Where is the Tribulation in your timeline? I already know, but need you to say it.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

Jacob refers to Israel, yes. That (Jer. 30:1-8) refers to the Holocaust and Hitler is but your interpretation. If any accept that, then you have to say the Scripture is wrong concerning the Tribulation being the worst persecution ever.

That is what is said in (Jer. 30:7) "Alas for that day is great, so that none is like it..."

And Jesus affirmed that the Tribulation would be just such a period. (Matt. 24:21) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

And the Book of (Revelation) is speaking to that time period. (Rev. 7:14) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The Holocaust was terrible, of course. And this speaks to how terrible the Tribulation will be for it will be far worse. The Holocaust wasn't the worst. The worst is yet to come.

Quantrill

I agree the great tribulation is far worse in that it encompasses the whole earth, whereas Jacobs Trouble is specifically targeting Jews.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection of the dead in Christ and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord. So also the antichrist will be destroyed by His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The scriptures plainly show us that the antichrist and the Church will be on the earth at His coming.


The Church will be gathered unto Him in the clouds, in the air high above the earth, and He will pour out the wrath of God upon the wicked, and personally destroy the antichrist, at His coming.





JLB

 

[JLB]

So, I disagree that the three events you mention occur at the same time. This is the order of events I see based upon the Dispensational view of end time events.

Yes , it’s plain to see you are viewing things through a “dispensational” lense, which is obscuring your view.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection of the dead in Christ and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord. So also the antichrist will be destroyed by His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The scriptures plainly show us that the antichrist and the Church will be on the earth at His coming.



JLB

 

[Randy]

And I haven't denied that. You can quote (1 Thess. 4:15) till the cows come home. I believe all of it.

My point was that the Church being the Temple at present is no problem for another Temple being built during the Tribulation period as I believe the Rapture occurs prior to the Tribulation which removes the Church from the earth. The coming of Christ for His Church is not the 2nd Coming of Christ to the earth.

The Church has no part in the Tribulation period. It is the 'Time of Jacobs Trouble'. (Jer. 30:7)

And not only will the Tribulation Temple be built, but there is still yet the Millennial Temple to be built. (Ezekiel 40-48). Don't you agree?

Quantrill

How are you defining "the church"?
This is who God calls His children
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

If the descendants of the first believers in Israel remained in the faith who are they?

Why do you state the church is the temple? The temple on earth was a copy of the temple in heaven and was made according to the dimensions God gave to Moses. The tent of the body in which indwells our spirit and the Spirit of Christ is not the same reference as that copy of the temple on the earth if that's your assumption.

In speaking of something new Jesus introduced a covenant in His blood in Israel.
How does God write this covenant on the hearts of the people that all may know Him?
Is there another covenant that you are speaking of when you state Israel as opposed to the body of Christ? Where did you read that teaching from?

Can you show a scripture of a gathering to the Lord apart from the dead in Christ rising first that is stated before tribulation?

The beast makes war with the saints.
In regard to Rev 11 the "whole" world looks on to that witness.

Rev 16:15
This is the end of the end.

I like others believe in a temple at the time of the end as the lawless one or anti Christ or beast reveals himself in that temple and that person is destroyed at the coming of the Lord at the great battle of God almighty which is a future event from today.

If you want a thread on a pretrib rapture you should start one. I will remain premill post trib.

 

[Quantrill]

I agree the great tribulation is far worse in that it encompasses the whole earth, whereas Jacobs Trouble is specifically targeting Jews.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection of the dead in Christ and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord. So also the antichrist will be destroyed by His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The scriptures plainly show us that the antichrist and the Church will be on the earth at His coming.


The Church will be gathered unto Him in the clouds, in the air high above the earth, and He will pour out the wrath of God upon the wicked, and personally destroy the antichrist, at His coming.





JLB

Therefore (Jer. 30:1-8) do not speak of the Holocaust or Hitler. It is speaking to the Tribulation. Which is called the time of 'Jacobs Trouble'.

It's main purpose is Israel. Not the Church.

Again, you are interpreting that the Church will go through the Tribulation. The Scriptures don't 'plainly' say that.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Yes , it’s plain to see you are viewing things through a “dispensational” lense, which is obscuring your view.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The resurrection of the dead in Christ and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord. So also the antichrist will be destroyed by His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The scriptures plainly show us that the antichrist and the Church will be on the earth at His coming.



JLB

Concerning your three events you mentioned in post #(62), I asked where does the Tribulation fit. Could you please answwer?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

How are you defining "the church"?
This is who God calls His children
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

If the descendants of the first believers in Israel remained in the faith who are they?

Why do you state the church is the temple? The temple on earth was a copy of the temple in heaven and was made according to the dimensions God gave to Moses. The tent of the body in which indwells our spirit and the Spirit of Christ is not the same reference as that copy of the temple on the earth if that's your assumption.

In speaking of something new Jesus introduced a covenant in His blood in Israel.
How does God write this covenant on the hearts of the people that all may know Him?
Is there another covenant that you are speaking of when you state Israel as opposed to the body of Christ? Where did you read that teaching from?

Can you show a scripture of a gathering to the Lord apart from the dead in Christ rising first that is stated before tribulation?

The beast makes war with the saints.
In regard to Rev 11 the "whole" world looks on to that witness.

Rev 16:15
This is the end of the end.

I like others believe in a temple at the time of the end as the lawless one or anti Christ or beast reveals himself in that temple and that person is destroyed at the coming of the Lord at the great battle of God almighty which is a future event from today.

If you want a thread on a pretrib rapture you should start one. I will remain premill post trib.

The Church is the Body and Bride of Christ. It began at Pentecost and is completed at the Rapture.

The Church is the Temple present on earth today. (1 Cor. 3:9-17) (1 Peter 2:5-7)

The Church comes into and under the New Covenant. That Covenant is new only in comparison to the Mosaic Covenant. It was not unknown to Israel. At least, it shouldn't have been. (Jer. 31:31-34)

The Rapture is the only Rapture. The resurrection of those prior to the Rapture, and the living saints taken up alive and changed, are all part of the Rapture. Those of all nations who become believers during the Tribulation and die, will not be part of the Church. They will be the Tribulation saints. (Rev. 7:13-17). Those of the 12 tribes of Israel who are sealed, are Israel.

I have no problem with (Rev. 11)

I have no problem with (Rev. 16:15).

I also believe the Temple will be built and exist during the Tribulation.

You're talking to the wrong person. I haven't been pushing a thread on the pretrib Rapture. I just used it to explain away the problem of two temples of God on earth at the same time. But, here we are. And, that's fine. However if you want to start one, go ahead. I will participate.

Are you saying the Rapture occurs after the Tribulation?

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

Again, you are interpreting that the Church will go through the Tribulation. The Scriptures don't 'plainly' say that.

Scripture plainly say the Church will be on earth at the coming of the Lord as well as the antichrist, whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming.


You are ignoring the scripture and what it plainly says in favor of your man made teaching of dispensationalism.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


These three events all occur at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

Please address this scripture and explain what you are contesting about this statement.





JLB

 

[JLB]

Concerning your three events you mentioned in post #(62), I asked where does the Tribulation fit. Could you please answwer?

Quantrill

Brother the coming of the Lord is the physical return of Jesus Christ to earth, when every eye will see him, in which He gathers His people together at the resurrection and rapture, and destroys all the wicked on earth, including the antichrist.

• we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


Do you not understand that the coming of the Lord is the physical return of Jesus Christ?


How can there be a tribulation if He destroys the wicked before the tribulation?


Who would follow the antichrist after the have seen the true Christ?





JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

But, you did say the Dome of the Rock was the abomination of desolation. See your post #(37). Now what?

Sorry...when you give that which you believe Scripture is saying, you are interpreting Scripture. If what you and others are saying is that the only basis is 'you', then it is just that...your interpretation based upon you. You place yourself as God. If you're scared to say you're interpreting Scripture, then you should not offer an opinion. Do you understand? Your are presenting yourself as 'absolute'

Please answer my question in post #(48) starting with, What is a week? Save the smoke for someone else.

Quantrill

I'm sorry as you are right. The Dome of the Rock is an abomination to God for it stands on holy ground, but the bigger picture is the son of perdition who the Muslims will hand over the Dome of the Rock to as he claims he is God, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5. When you study Daniel Chapters 7-12, the history of the four different Empires, and the seven remaining nations that still exist today it becomes evident of who the son of perdition is and this ruling power who gives power to this beast out of the earth who has always persecuted, even to death, those who are God's own.

I already answered your question in post #48 with my post #53.

 

[Quantrill]

Scripture plainly say the Church will be on earth at the coming of the Lord as well as the antichrist, whom the Lord will destroy with the brightness of His coming.


You are ignoring the scripture and what it plainly says in favor of your man made teaching of dispensationalism.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


These three events all occur at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

Please address this scripture and explain what you are contesting about this statement.





JLB

No, you are saying that. The Scriptures don't plainly say that.

Yes, I have seen your 3 events and have asked you where does the Tribulation fit in those events. As yet, you continue to ignore. So, before you go asking me anymore questions, please answer mine.

Thank you.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Brother the coming of the Lord is the physical return of Jesus Christ to earth, when every eye will see him, in which He gathers His people together at the resurrection and rapture, and destroys all the wicked on earth, including the antichrist.

• we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


Do you not understand that the coming of the Lord is the physical return of Jesus Christ?


How can there be a tribulation if He destroys the wicked before the tribulation?


Who would follow the antichrist after the have seen the true Christ?





JLB

Strange response. You have spoken of the Tribulation before. Now you are indicating there is no such thing.

So which is it? Is there a Tribulation or not? If there is, where does it fit in your time line?

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Jacob refers to Israel, yes. That (Jer. 30:1-8) refers to the Holocaust and Hitler is but your interpretation. If any accept that, then you have to say the Scripture is wrong concerning the Tribulation being the worst persecution ever.

That is what is said in (Jer. 30:7) "Alas for that day is great, so that none is like it..."

And Jesus affirmed that the Tribulation would be just such a period. (Matt. 24:21) "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

And the Book of (Revelation) is speaking to that time period. (Rev. 7:14) "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The Holocaust was terrible, of course. And this speaks to how terrible the Tribulation will be for it will be far worse. The Holocaust wasn't the worst. The worst is yet to come.

Quantrill

Please share with us the scriptures that teach a seven year tribulation period that actually say seven years and also the scriptures about a pretrib Rapture before any so called seven year tribulation period.

 

[Quantrill]

Please share with us the scriptures that teach a seven year tribulation period that actually say seven years and also the scriptures about a pretrib Rapture before any so called seven year tribulation period.

You are responding to my reply to another. If you go back and read it all, I believe I have already given Scripture for what you ask.

If you want to start over concerning just the Tribulation period, start another thread. I will participate.

Both you and I know that we come to the Bible with different methods of interpretation. So, we will never come to an agreement. But, if you want to address it, I am willing. Start another thread.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

The Second Coming of Christ to the earth results in the destruction of antichrist. The Rapture is not the coming of Christ to the earth, it is the Church being called out. (1 Thess. 4:16-17)

How can you dispute these scriptures that clearly state Jesus returns on the last day and then we are gathered up to Him.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[Quantrill]

How can you dispute these scriptures that clearly state Jesus returns on the last day and then we are gathered up to Him.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I do not dispute the 2nd Coming of Christ. I dispute that Christ coming for His Church, His Bride, where the Church is called out of the earth, occurs at the same time when Christ returns to earth.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Therefore (Jer. 30:1-8) do not speak of the Holocaust or Hitler. It is speaking to the Tribulation. Which is called the time of 'Jacobs Trouble'.

It's main purpose is Israel. Not the Church.

Again, you are interpreting that the Church will go through the Tribulation. The Scriptures don't 'plainly' say that.

Quantrill

There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation, but only 3 1/2 years. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus as the Holy Spirit strengthens us to stand and endure until the coming of the Lord as God has a place prepared for us in the wilderness as His wrath passes over the earth, Rev 12:6. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chapter 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.

Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.

Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride

Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth