The word is living and active

[Heidi]

Claiming that there is such a thing as bibliolatry is poppycock. Hebrews 10:4:12, "For the word of God is living and active."

John 1:1-2, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

John 1:14, "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

When we worship God, we worship His words and when we worship His words, we are worshiping God because as the John 1:12 says, they are one and the same.

But the Catholics don't believe the above verses either. If any of them were born again of the Holy Spirit, they would know that the Word is alive because the Word is God.

Idolatry,on the other had, is worshiping perishable things that cannot give one eternal life. But as Jesus tells us, "Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away." So the Word (the bible) is as eternal as God is. Sorry Catholics. ;-)

 

[Guest]

Yes - the Word was in the beginning - the Word is alive and active. The Word that John refers to is Jesus Christ - who is equal to God.

But I don't think it is "poppycock" to suggest that one could worship the Bible over God. The Jews susrly worshipped the word (the Law) rather the the author of the Word.

 

[jgredline]

But the Catholics don't believe the above verses either. If any of them were born again of the Holy Spirit, they would know that the Word is alive because the Word is God.

Frankly
The catholic bible should rip out Hebrews and Galations....They do not need to be in their bibles because they don't believe those books....

They should just add 1 and 2nd pope intsead.... :-?

 

[destiny]

The problem is always with man. If man worships the word of God (apart) from the Holy Spirit, does this make Gods word any less than what it has the power to do, or is this a problem that rests in mans error?
The problem is always with man and not scripture.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works,†(2 Timothy 3:16-17).

All scripture is in perfect unity with God because the two are one. There is no division between the two, nor can there ever be any.

 

[lovely]

Hi Heidi,

As I said in my response in stranger's thread, I think it still boils down to our 'self' being the true idol when we consider this topic. We distort the Truth of God, and we use Scripture in ways we shouldn't. I think we should esteem it higher than we do, because it is the living Word, and adhere more to God's actual Truth rather than man's ideas (denominations, doctrines, theologies, etc.). We twist it to support debates and arguments as part of vain disputes more than we focus on sharing it (and applying it) because of the life it brings through the beautiful Gospel of Jesus Christ. I pray that God would eliminate denominations between His children, and just give us a hunger and thirst for righteousness, and a desire to feed on His True Word alone...nothing mixed in.

I understand what you are saying in your op, but I think the article had some good points...though the title is off to me. I do apologize if my response in that thread offended you, and your love for the Word, because that was not my intention toward anyone...but I see now that perhaps some were offended in that thread by the thought of the Bible not being esteemed properly. Again, I believe that It's the distortion of Scripture that we make an idol, not the Truth of it, because that would be an impossibility since it is exactly what God intended for us. If we actually upheld the Truth, as we are supposed to, idolatry wouldn't be an issue for us at all, because we wouldn't be missing Christ to dwell on the letter of the law, and we would once and for all tear down the high places that still exist in God's church. We would truly be a people of love in Him, a light. My apologies to you, and all others, if I caused an offense, but I hope you can see what it was I was truly saying.

The Lord bless you.

 

[Heidi]

Yes - the Word was in the beginning - the Word is alive and active. The Word that John refers to is Jesus Christ - who is equal to God.

But I don't think it is "poppycock" to suggest that one could worship the Bible over God. The Jews susrly worshipped the word (the Law) rather the the author of the Word.

The Jews didn't believe that the word was God. So they really didn't worship the word. So no, one cannot worship the word more than God. They saw the word as Jesus tells us, "Teachings that are rules taught by men." ;-)

 

[Heidi]

Hi Heidi,

As I said in my response in stranger's thread, I think it still boils down to our 'self' being the true idol when we consider this topic. We distort the Truth of God, and we use Scripture in ways we shouldn't. I think we should esteem it higher than we do, because it is the living Word, and adhere more to God's actual Truth rather than man's ideas (denominations, doctrines, theologies, etc.). We twist it to support debates and arguments as part of vain disputes more than we focus on sharing it (and applying it) because of the life it brings through the beautiful Gospel of Jesus Christ. I pray that God would eliminate denominations between His children, and just give us a hunger and thirst for righteousness, and a desire to feed on His True Word alone...nothing mixed in.

I understand what you are saying in your op, but I think the article had some good points...though the title is off to me. I do apologize if my response in that thread offended you, and your love for the Word, because that was not my intention toward anyone...but I see now that perhaps some were offended in that thread by the thought of the Bible not being esteemed properly. Again, I believe that It's the distortion of Scripture that we make an idol, not the Truth of it, because that would be an impossibility since it is exactly what God intended for us. If we actually upheld the Truth, as we are supposed to, idolatry wouldn't be an issue for us at all, because we wouldn't be missing Christ to dwell on the letter of the law, and we would once and for all tear down the high places that still exist in God's church. We would truly be a people of love in Him, a light. My apologies to you, and all others, if I caused an offense, but I hope you can see what it was I was truly saying.

The Lord bless you.

We are only worshiping ourselves, when we slant the bible into our interpretation. But the words in the bible themselves are outside of us and need to stay outside of us. ;-) Thus,
"But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" means, "but he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son." Notice that I didn't change one word in that phrase but believe it as God's word.

So none of my words is in those words, only God's words. And that's why it's imperative that people believe the bible as written. For example; Mary was sinless, a perpetual virgin and ascended into heaven are not God's word because God never said them in the bible. They are the words of men who planted those words into God's mouth. That is heresy.

 

[Heidi]

Frankly
The catholic bible should rip out Hebrews and Galations....They do not need to be in their bibles because they don't believe those books....

They should just add 1 and 2nd pope intsead.... :-?

The don't believe Deeuteronomy 4:15, John 1:1-2, Luke 1:47, Matthew 11:11, Matthew 23:5-12, and Leviticus 1:26 either. So there isn't much in the bible that they do believe. Thus, Catholicism is a cult because their Holy Father is the pope, not God.

 

[Drew]

The don't believe Deeuteronomy 4:15, John 1:1-2, Luke 1:47, Matthew 11:11, Matthew 23:5-12, and Leviticus 1:26 either. So there isn't much in the bible that they do believe. Thus, Catholicism is a cult because their Holy Father is the pope, not God.

It is important that we protestants who disagree with the "cult characterization" clearly express their position on this matter.

I think that even if some doctrines of Catholocism are factually incorrect, the RCC clearly does not meet the widely held definition of the word "cult".

This words has notions of mind control and other more sinister behaviours that clearly do not apply in the case of the mainline RCC.

 

[jgredline]

It is important that we protestants who disagree with the "cult characterization" clearly express their position on this matter.

I think that even if some doctrines of Catholocism are factually incorrect, the RCC clearly does not meet the widely held definition of the word "cult".

This words has notions of mind control and other more sinister behaviours that clearly do not apply in the case of the mainline RCC.

Drew
With all due respect, You should study what a cult it...While the catholic church is loaded with many false teachings I will talk about one.....for now..

Eph2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Christians have been saved by grace. The grace of God is the source of salvation; faith is the channel, not the cause. God alone saves. Salvation never originates in the efforts of people; it always arises out of the lovingkindness of God. Truly, "salvation is of the LORD" (Jon. 2:9). The past tense of the verb saved in this passage indicates that the believer's salvation has already occurred in the past, at the Cross. the gift of God: We cannot do anything to earn our salvation. Some suggest that the gift of God modifies the word faith in this verse. Thus Paul is saying that even our belief in God does not originate in ourselves. This too is a gift, so no one can take in pride in their position as a Christian. Everything is received from our merciful and gracious Father....

This intern makes the CC a ''cult'' How do I know this? Simple..The CC teaches purgatory...The CC teaches purgatory as a place for purification or to get purified before one enters into the kingdom of God....In essence what they are teaching is that the death of Christ was not ''quite'' enough to save us and so we must do our part in the purification part....The Good Catholics will spend less time in the washing machine.....The perfect Catholics like the pope will in all likely hood skip purgatory because the keep the 10 commandments....So because Catholicism is a religion of works like the SDA, JW, Mormons, they are a cult......

 

[Drew]

I think that the word "cult" has come to mean something particular in society at large and it has everything to do with behaviour and nothing to do with matters of doctrine.

False teachings do not a cult make.....

What people think of when they hear the word "cult" is a set of sinister behaviours: brainwashing, physical isolation from the rest of society, giving all your money to a single charismatic leader, dietary modifications, etc.

When people use the word the word "cult" to describe a religious system whose doctrine they believe to be faulty, all these other implications about behaviours are implied as well. This is unfair.

We need to be wise and responsible in our use of a word like "cult". I submit that in the general population the word "cult" conjures up images of the Moonies, Jim Jones, Waco, those people who killed themselves expecting to ride a comet to heaven, etc.

The RCC is nothing like such groups and is not a cult.

 

[jgredline]

I think that the word "cult" has come to mean something particular in society at large and it has everything to do with behaviour and nothing to do with matters of doctrine.

False teachings do not a cult make.....

What people think of when they hear the word "cult" is a set of sinister behaviours: brainwashing, physical isolation from the rest of society, giving all your money to a single charismatic leader, dietary modifications, etc.

When people use the word the word "cult" to describe a religious system whose doctrine they believe to be faulty, all these other implications about behaviours are implied as well. This is unfair.

We need to be wise and responsible in our use of a word like "cult". I submit that in the general population the word "cult" conjures up images of the Moonies, Jim Jones, Waco, those people who killed themselves expecting to ride a comet to heaven, etc.

Actually drew u do a good job of describing a cult....

1 tim 4:1 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 tim 3: 1-7 1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 tim 4:1-4 1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at* His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

2 peter 2:1-2 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

These verses are clear warnings against the catholic church......

 

[lovely]

Hi Heidi,

We are only worshiping ourselves, when we slant the bible into our interpretation. But the words in the bible themselves are outside of us and need to stay outside of us. Thus,
"But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" means, "but he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son." Notice that I didn't change one word in that phrase but believe it as God's word.

So none of my words is in those words, only God's words. And that's why it's imperative that people believe the bible as written. For example; Mary was sinless, a perpetual virgin and ascended into heaven are not God's word because God never said them in the bible. They are the words of men who planted those words into God's mouth. That is heresy.

I am not sure why you are responding to me with examples of Catholic doctrine. I would like to make it clear that I am not Catholic, nor do I believe Mary was sinless. I believe the Word is the only Truth, and is above any denominational teachings that may attract me. I also do not believe that Catholics are the only denomination that are guilty of putting denominational beliefs above God's Word.

I was hoping this thread was an attempt to discuss the church's need to avoid idols of all kinds (man's ideas, methods, politics, exalted preachers, or other leaders, etc.), but I see it is actually another debate about Catholicism.

So to be clear, I was not defending the doctrine of Mary's sinlessness, which I do not believe Scripture teaches, nor was I trying to further any agenda other that what I stated above about the church avoiding all idols. The Lord bless you.

 

[Free]

I think that the word "cult" has come to mean something particular in society at large and it has everything to do with behaviour and nothing to do with matters of doctrine.

False teachings do not a cult make.....

It has everything to do with matters of doctrine - people behave based on what they believe. As such, behaviour is not a very good standard by which to judge whether or not a group of people who hold to certain beliefs are a cult.

The RCC is nothing like such groups and is not a cult.

Would you consider Mormons or JW's a cult? Why or why not?

 

[Guest]

I think that the word "cult" has come to mean something particular in society at large and it has everything to do with behaviour and nothing to do with matters of doctrine.

False teachings do not a cult make.....

What people think of when they hear the word "cult" is a set of sinister behaviours: brainwashing, physical isolation from the rest of society, giving all your money to a single charismatic leader, dietary modifications, etc.

When people use the word the word "cult" to describe a religious system whose doctrine they believe to be faulty, all these other implications about behaviours are implied as well. This is unfair.

We need to be wise and responsible in our use of a word like "cult". I submit that in the general population the word "cult" conjures up images of the Moonies, Jim Jones, Waco, those people who killed themselves expecting to ride a comet to heaven, etc.

The RCC is nothing like such groups and is not a cult.

Of course doctrine must play a role in defining a cult.

Doctrine and practice of that doctrine go hand in hand.

 

[Heidi]

It is important that we protestants who disagree with the "cult characterization" clearly express their position on this matter.

I think that even if some doctrines of Catholocism are factually incorrect, the RCC clearly does not meet the widely held definition of the word "cult".

This words has notions of mind control and other more sinister behaviours that clearly do not apply in the case of the mainline RCC.

Oh yes it does.

All cults:

1) Claim they're the only ones who have the truth
2) Ask their followers to come to them to interpret the bible
3) Worship their leaders instead of God alone
4) Threaten their followers with hell or death if they leave the cult
5) Have rituals unique only to the cult
6) Use fear to keep their followers so that it becomes difficult for their followers to become de-prgrammed

The catholic church fits all the criteria of a cult. Most catholics will do anything, inculding changing the words in the bible and redefining them in order to believe the pope. :

 

[MrVersatile48]

Timely Word 4 Today

Give Me a Passion to Know You and Your Word

Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things
in your law. (NIV) Psalm 119:18


Oh Father, I see the passion that the author
of Psalm 119 had for You as he writes. .


I Seek You with all my heart. . .I have
hidden Your word in my heart. . .I delight in
Your decrees. . .I have set my heart on Your
laws. . .I run in the path of Your commands.


. .turn my heart, my eyes toward Your
statutes. . .I have put my hope in Your laws.
. .Your decrees are the theme of my song. .
.You are my portion. . .I have sought your
face with all my heart. . . at midnight I
rise to give you thanks. . .


I keep Your precepts with all my heart. . .
I have put myhope in Your Word. . .
My soul faints with longing for your
salvation. . .



I have sought out Your precepts. . .I will
ponder Your statutes. . .I meditate on it all
day long. . .

Your statutes are my heritage forever; they
are the joy of my heart. . .my heart is set on
keeping Your decrees. . .


I stand in awe of Your laws. . . I open my
mouth and pant, longing for Your commands. .
.streams of tears flow from my eyes for Your
law is not obeyed. . .my zeal wears me out. .



I call with all my heart. . .I rise before
dawn and cry out to You. . .my eyes stay open
through the watches of the night. . .



I love Your precepts. . .my heart trembles at
Your word. . .I love Your law. . .


7 times a day I praise You. . .I wait for Your salvation,
I follow Your commands, I obey Your statutes,
for I love them greatly. . .may my lips
overflow, my tongue sing. . .


I long for Your salvation. . .Your law is my delight. . .
I have strayed like a lost sheep. Seek Your
servant, for I have not forgotten Your
commands.



A prayer to pray:

Oh Lord, I long to have a passion for You and
Your Word like that. I want an unquenchable
passion to know You and Your Word. And yet
the author is very honest. Even he strayed
from You, "like a lost sheep." He knows that
only You can seek Him out, find him, deliver
him.


Father, I want that passion. Forgive me
for turning away from You and pursuing other
things. . .forgive me for when I choose to
dwell on impure thoughts. . .there is no good
thing in me. . . Psalm 16:2 I said to the
LORD, "You are my Lord; apart from you I have
no good thing." (NIV) There is no good in me,
only You. The incredible thing is that that
is enough.


Written by Marji "Mike" Kruger




For more on a relationship with God. . .

http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=77c7iacab.0.ggg ... 4027&ts=S0
253&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anchorlife.org%2Fhtml%2Fwhy_bother.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today's Read through the Bible Passage



Today's Reading: Psalm 128 and Ruth 1-2


The Read through the
Bible reading calendar

http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=77c7iacab.0.hgg ... 253&p=http
%3A%2F%2Fanchorlife.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fcalendar%2Fcalendar.cgi)



Read the passage online...

http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=77c7iacab.0.6qd ... noobab.402
7&ts=S0253&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.anchoryourlife.com%2Fcourses%2Freadthroughbible%2Fmayrd.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Forward this to a Friend

 

[MrVersatile48]

This one's apt too:-

Living By The Word


You're blessed when you stay on course,
walking steadily on the road revealed by GOD.


You're blessed when you follow his
directions, doing your best to find him.


That's right-you don't go off on your own;
you walk straight along the road he set. You,
GOD, prescribed the right way to live; now
you expect us to live it. (The Message) Psalm
119:1-4


>From Psalm 119:

10 I seek you with all my heart; do not let
me stray from your commands. (NIV)

15 I meditate on your precepts and consider
your ways. (NIV)

16 I relish everything you've told me of
life, I won't forget a word of it. (Msg)

20 My soul is consumed with longing for your
laws at all times. (NIV)

31 I grasp and cling to whatever you tell me;
GOD, don't let me down! (Msg)

32 I run in the path of your commands, for
you have set my heart free. (NIV)

40 See how hungry I am for your counsel;
preserve my life through your righteous ways!
(Msg)

47 I cherish your commandments-oh, how I love
them!-relishing every fragment of your
counsel. (Msg)

49 Remember what you said to me, your
servant-I hang on to these words for dear
life! (Msg)

58 I have sought your face with all my heart;
be gracious to me according to your promise.
(NIV)

66 Train me in good common sense; I'm
thoroughly committed to living your way.
(Msg)

71 My troubles turned out all for the best-
they forced me to learn from your textbook.
(Msg)

76 Oh, love me-and right now!-hold me tight!
just the way you promised. (Msg)

78b I kept my mind fixed on your counsel.
(Msg)

97 Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it
all day long. (NIV)

167 My soul guards and keeps all your
instructions- oh, how much I love them!
(Msg)



Does that reflect your passion for God's Word?


Written by Marji "Mike"
Kruger

 

[MrVersatile48]

Great Bank Holiday series, in fact:-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seeing the Light


Immediately, something like scales fell from
Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got
up and was baptized, and after taking some
food, he regained his strength. Saul spent
several days with the disciples in Damascus.


At once he began to preach in the synagogues
that Jesus is the Son of God. (NIV) Acts
9:18-20


Paul's conversion is due to the personal
appearance of the risen Christ, who appeared
as literally as He did when He appeared to
the disciples for 40 days before He ascended
to Heaven. It is not a mere vision. It is not
a figment of Paul's imagination. It is not a
dream, but a manifestation of the risen Lord.



It radically changed his life.



After interacting with Jesus Christ, Paul is
literally blinded by the experience. From the
moment that Paul is blinded on the Damascus
road, he lives in total obedience to the One
whom he had opposed.



It is a total conversion
- a conversion of the will, intellect, and
emotion, that changed the purpose and
direction of Paul's life and activities.



Paul was a man who was running hard in a
direction he was convinced was right, but
Christ "laid hold of" him, turned him
completely around, and set him off in the
opposite direction.



Are you running hard in acertain direction
utterly convinced that it's right?



You may say: "I'm not running." Well
what's the most important thing or person in
your life? That's what you're chasing.



Sometimes we run so fast, so focused, it
takes a Damascus road experience like Paul's,
to get our attention.



Jesus tapped Paul on the shoulder and he
turned to follow Christ. When has Jesus
tapped you on the shoulder?



Have you turned around?


Written by Marji "Mike" Kruger

 

[Heidi]

Great Bank Holiday series, in fact:-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seeing the Light


Immediately, something like scales fell from
Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got
up and was baptized, and after taking some
food, he regained his strength. Saul spent
several days with the disciples in Damascus.


At once he began to preach in the synagogues
that Jesus is the Son of God. (NIV) Acts
9:18-20


Paul's conversion is due to the personal
appearance of the risen Christ, who appeared
as literally as He did when He appeared to
the disciples for 40 days before He ascended
to Heaven. It is not a mere vision. It is not
a figment of Paul's imagination. It is not a
dream, but a manifestation of the risen Lord.



It radically changed his life.



After interacting with Jesus Christ, Paul is
literally blinded by the experience. From the
moment that Paul is blinded on the Damascus
road, he lives in total obedience to the One
whom he had opposed.



It is a total conversion
- a conversion of the will, intellect, and
emotion, that changed the purpose and
direction of Paul's life and activities.



Paul was a man who was running hard in a
direction he was convinced was right, but
Christ "laid hold of" him, turned him
completely around, and set him off in the
opposite direction.



Are you running hard in acertain direction
utterly convinced that it's right?



You may say: "I'm not running." Well
what's the most important thing or person in
your life? That's what you're chasing.



Sometimes we run so fast, so focused, it
takes a Damascus road experience like Paul's,
to get our attention.



Jesus tapped Paul on the shoulder and he
turned to follow Christ. When has Jesus
tapped you on the shoulder?



Have you turned around?


Written by Marji "Mike" Kruger

Actually that's how I got saved only it was my back on which Jesus tapped.