The word is living and active

[Drew]

These verses are clear warnings against the catholic church......

Even if what you say is correct, this does not make the RCC a cult. I hold it to be self-evident that the word "cult" conjures up images of behaviours, not false doctrine. We need to use the word fairly in accordance with how people will interpret it.

To use the word "cult" to describe the RCC is to intentionally or otherwise get mileage out of the implications of brainwashing and social isolation that characterize "cults" like the Waco Branch Davidians and the Moonies.

This is not fair and Christians should rise above such a tactic.

 

[MrVersatile48]

The Andrew Hoekema classic, Kingdom Of The Cults, much quoted ever since, says that cults deny the Deity of Christ, deny that the Bible is God's Word & deny the glorious good news gospel that salvation is by the sheer grace of God, thru faith in the once-for-all atoning sacrifice of Christ

Many threads @ RC dogma are linked here

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24079

& as I've said, in several, anyone who knows the Bible reasonably well can compare it with the cataclysmically catastrophic RCC catechism - which is online at Vat City HQ site

In brief, you'll see that it puts Mary above Jesus & the words of popes, cardinals etc above the Word of God

All the distinctively RC dogma & practices have their origin in the forbidden Babylonian pagan occult

 

[jgredline]

MRV
A fine post....

 

[Guest]

Even if what you say is correct, this does not make the RCC a cult. I hold it to be self-evident that the word "cult" conjures up images of behaviours, not false doctrine. We need to use the word fairly in accordance with how people will interpret it.

To use the word "cult" to describe the RCC is to intentionally or otherwise get mileage out of the implications of brainwashing and social isolation that characterize "cults" like the Waco Branch Davidians and the Moonies.

This is not fair and Christians should rise above such a tactic.

Drew - why are you defering to how "people will interpret" it?

Within the Christian community - the word cult - typically deals with those organizations that violate basic Christian doctrines.

Using your arguement, I suppose that you do not consider the LDS or JWs cults?

 

[Drew]

Drew - why are you defering to how "people will interpret" it?

Within the Christian community - the word cult - typically deals with those organizations that violate basic Christian doctrines.

Using your arguement, I suppose that you do not consider the LDS or JWs cults?

I think it is misleading to use the word "cult" even if what you say is true about how the Christian community uses this word - that is to identify religious movements that promote false doctrine.

The word "cult" still carries implications of these more sinister behaviours, even if we have all "officially" agreed to use it to refer to doctrinal issues.

Its like how some Christians use the word "sodomite" to refer to homosexuals. They can claim that this is Biblically correct all they want. But the word is loaded with nasty and needlessly hurtful implications and should not be used by anyone who is serious about representing Christ to the world.

The men represented in the story of Sodom were not simply men who practiced homosexuality - they are basically described as wannabe rapists. See Genesis 19:5-9. Not to mention that the word "sodomite" reminds us of the act of "sodomy", an act which is viscerally revulsive to many, even in a heterosexual context.

So when someone uses the word "sodomite" to refer to practising homosexuals in general he is, intentionally or otherwise, leveraging off the nasty behavours that we associate with the men of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I would have hoped we wouldn't stoop that low.

I think there is the same effect at play in respect to the word "cult".

 

[Heidi]

I think it is misleading to use the word "cult" even if what you say is true about how the Christian community uses this word - that is to identify religious movements that promote false doctrine.

The word "cult" still carries implications of these more sinister behaviours, even if we have all "officially" agreed to use it to refer to doctrinal issues.

Its like how some Christians use the word "sodomite" to refer to homosexuals. They can claim that this is Biblically correct all they want. But the word is loaded with nasty and needlessly hurtful implications and should not be used by anyone who is serious about representing Christ to the world.

The men represented in the story of Sodom were not simply men who practiced homosexuality - they are basically described as wannabe rapists. See Genesis 19:5-9. Not to mention that the word "sodomite" reminds us of the act of "sodomy", an act which is viscerally revulsive to many, even in a heterosexual context.

So when someone uses the word "sodomite" to refer to practising homosexuals in general he is, intentionally or otherwise, leveraging off the nasty behavours that we associate with the men of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I would have hoped we wouldn't stoop that low.

I think there is the same effect at play in respect to the word "cult".

Well if the Catholics didn't stoop so low to blatantly disobey Jesus and call their priests 'fathers" which is the very word that Jesus tells us not to call our religious leaders, much less "Our Holy Father" which blasphemes God in the highest degree, then lies about what God says in Matthew 1:256, carves images of women, bows down and kisses statues of Mary as pope John Paul was photographed doing, then there would be no need to criticize the Catholics. So they bring it on themselves. And the saddest part about all of this is that the catholics are upset when they are criticized but could care less how they blaspheme God. :x

But true Christians who love God's word will absolutely stand up against false teaching even though no false teacher thinks his teaching is false. So the Catholics should care more about God's word than whether other people are angry at them and maybe they wouldn't pervert the gospel in the horrendous way that they do. :x

 

[Guest]

I think it is misleading to use the word "cult" even if what you say is true about how the Christian community uses this word - that is to identify religious movements that promote false doctrine.

The word "cult" still carries implications of these more sinister behaviours, even if we have all "officially" agreed to use it to refer to doctrinal issues.

Its like how some Christians use the word "sodomite" to refer to homosexuals. They can claim that this is Biblically correct all they want. But the word is loaded with nasty and needlessly hurtful implications and should not be used by anyone who is serious about representing Christ to the world.

The men represented in the story of Sodom were not simply men who practiced homosexuality - they are basically described as wannabe rapists. See Genesis 19:5-9. Not to mention that the word "sodomite" reminds us of the act of "sodomy", an act which is viscerally revulsive to many, even in a heterosexual context.

So when someone uses the word "sodomite" to refer to practising homosexuals in general he is, intentionally or otherwise, leveraging off the nasty behavours that we associate with the men of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I would have hoped we wouldn't stoop that low.

I think there is the same effect at play in respect to the word "cult".

I personally have not heard them refered to as a sodomite - however, according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sodomy - it would seem that the word 'sodomy' is an apt word to convey what it is that they do.

In regards to 'cult': http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult

Cult is wrapped around doctrinal issues.

You also did not answer my question regarding the LDS and JWs - are they cults?

 

[Free]

I think it is misleading to use the word "cult" even if what you say is true about how the Christian community uses this word - that is to identify religious movements that promote false doctrine.

Just curious: What word do you use for those religious groups that claim affinity with Christianity and yet have core beliefs which contradict orthodox Christianity?

 

[Heidi]

Just curious: What word do you use for those religious groups that claim affinity with Christianity and yet have core beliefs which contradict orthodox Christianity?

Good question. ;-)

 

[Drew]

I personally have not heard them refered to as a sodomite - however, according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sodomy - it would seem that the word 'sodomy' is an apt word to convey what it is that they do.

From your link, one definition of sodomy is "anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex". So sodomy is commonly, if not almost universally practiced by "decent married Christian folk". Do you see the problem here? How would you feel if married heterosexuals who engage in oral sex were called "sodomites"? It would be technically correct to say this. I trust the point is obvious.

Dictionary definitions are not very reliable (as is the case with the word "cult"). When people use the word sodomy they generally forget that it can refer to heterosexual oral sex. What matters is what people think a word means, not what the dictionary says it does.

In regards to 'cult': http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult

Cult is wrapped around doctrinal issues.

From the link you provided:

"a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. "

This shows that the word "cult", even its dictionary definition has connotations of more than doctrinal issues.

But dictionary definitions are a very bad way to make this argument. I still think that for most people, the word "cult" conjures up Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Rev. Moon.

You also did not answer my question regarding the LDS and JWs - are they cults?

I do not know as much as I would like about these groups, but I do not think they meet the working definition of the word "cults" as I understand it.

 

[Drew]

Just curious: What word do you use for those religious groups that claim affinity with Christianity and yet have core beliefs which contradict orthodox Christianity?

"Non-orthodox Christian" groups. I suspect I know what objections this statement will elicit, but I will wait for them.

 

[Heidi]

"Non-orthodox Christian" groups. I suspect I know what objections this statement will elicit, but I will wait for them.

Sorry, wrong answer. Since only God knows the complete truth, we need to gop to scripture to see what the answer is. Jesus told us we have only one teacher and that's the Christ. Remember? or are the catholics confused about who the Christ is? If so, I'll enlighten you. Jesus is the Christ and Jesus is also the word as John 1;14 says. So here's the biblical answer to the question;

2 Corinthians 11:4, "For if someone comes to you and preaches a different Jesus other than the one we preached, or if you receive a different Spirit other than the one you accepted or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough...for such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen masquerding as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising then , if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."

So how do we tell who's masquerading as apostles of Christ but are actually false teachers? Paul tells us; if they preach a different Jesus and/or a different gospel than the one that Paul and the apotsles preached. And the one that the apostles preached is the bible.


So since Mary's sinlessness, perpertual virginity, praying to people, calling religious leaders; Holy Father, etc. are not in the gospel, and in most cases contradict the gospel, then those are a different gospel than what Paul preached and who pass those made-up stories along are false teachers masquerading as apostles of Christ.

So sorry, but when it coms to believing any person (including the pope0 over God's word, people will always lose to God. Sorry. ;-)